PCGS and Perth Minted Australian Copper

mnemtsas2

My last submission to PCGS included a couple of lovely rainbow toned half pennies and pennys from the Perth mint in the 1950's and 60's. Collectors of Australian pre-decimal copper will know that Perth struck copper, as well as often being water stained and poorly struck occasionally shows up with rainbow toning. This can range from minor toning to simply eye popping toning. It's perfectly natural and not unusual for coins from Perth to be like this.

Anyway, back to PCGS. They found a couple of the coins to be 'questionable color'. Now I know they are not, numismatists down here with decades of experience who have seen the coins I sent know they are not questionable colour. There just isn't a premium down here for rainbow toned coins so AT copper coins pretty much dont exist. Nicely toned copper coins sell for exactly the same (or even less) than full red examples. And to be honest you're mostly talking about sub $20 coins anyway.

Any tips on what I should do to communicate with PCGS to educate them further? I wont bother talking about Perth copper that is full red that PCGS call red brown because that's a topic for another day.

Coin they called questionable color (remember this is taken with the coin angled to reflect light back into the lens, it isn't this strong in hand):


1952A Half Penny

HTubbs

I can definitely see why PCGS considered it "Questionable Color". It doesn't look right, in fact looks like one of those eBay toning jobs. Obviously I mean no disrespect to you, it's just that this was my initial reaction as soon as I viewed the picture.

mnemtsas2

Its probably not the best picture I'll wait for it to come back and take a better image that doesn't highlight the colour so much

Sapyx

Perth Mint bronze coins do indeed often have funky colours, which I haven't seen naturally occur in too many other bronze coin series. And I'm not surprised that the American TPGs have trouble with them.

I'm left wondering just how many NT Perth Mint coins have already been submitted by US-based collectors who wouldn't necessarily know any better, get them back bodybagged and, believing the TPG's verdict, either throw them away or treat them to make the toning more "market acceptable".

Walter

I had this one come back questionable colour:

1961 Perth mint Half Penny

Pulled it out of a roll myself, but this is just how Perth mint issues look. Besides, who'd bother ATing a $2 coin?

ajaan

You are correct with the color of the Perth bronze coins. They are usually more colorful but the US TPGs don't really have much experience with these IMO.

If you must have it in a graded slab, you may want to try NGC.

PBRat

<< <i>I had this one come back questionable colour:

1961 Perth mint Half Penny

Pulled it out of a roll myself, but this is just how Perth mint issues look. Besides, who'd bother ATing a $2 coin? >>



Hey Walter ... Please turn your PM function on.

You can do that through the "profile" tab above and set "Allow Private Messages" to "On".

Walter

Done,

mrpotatoheadd

I sold a half dozen or so toned like this a couple of years ago on eBay:

mnemtsas2

Some of the bigger Australian dealers need to communicate with PCGS to inform them of their errors regarding perth copper. My last submission included two Perth copper coins, one of which was a wild (but natural) toner, the other was pulled right out of a mint roll. Both got knocked back. I've sent over a few more this time to see what happens. If they AT these then we have a real problem with lack of education on the behalf of PCGS.

coinpictures

I realize that there is a certain "Vee must haff ze koinz onlee in ze Pee Cee Gee Esssssssssssssssssss schlabz!!!" sentiment around here (to be expected), but I'm afraid that when it comes to world coins, PCGS has a fraction of the expertise NGC does. I'm sorry, but it's true.

mnemtsas2 is correct. Unless multiple parties that PCGS recognize as being authoritative step up on this, collectors are effectively shouting into the wind.