Is Todd Helton the most underrated player of all time ?
edmundfitzgerald
Posts: 4,306 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
The guy has a lifetime batting average of .328
That's equal to Rod Carew and Wade Boggs.
That's BETTER then the lifetime averages of Joe Dimaggio, Honus Wagner, and Roberto Clemente.
You hear absolutely nothing about this guy. I mean nothing, and yet he has hit better or as well as
some of the greatest the game has every saw. His fielding percentage is off the charts.
And he also was the starting QB at the University of Tennessee. What a great athlete.
Anyone ???
That's equal to Rod Carew and Wade Boggs.
That's BETTER then the lifetime averages of Joe Dimaggio, Honus Wagner, and Roberto Clemente.
You hear absolutely nothing about this guy. I mean nothing, and yet he has hit better or as well as
some of the greatest the game has every saw. His fielding percentage is off the charts.
And he also was the starting QB at the University of Tennessee. What a great athlete.
Anyone ???
0
Comments
His home/away numbers are very far apart.
Home: .360 avg / .458 opb / .610 slg
Road : .295 avg / .398 obp / .493 slg
But, if he can reach the milestones, then he will probably get into the HoF.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>The biggest knock against him is the Coors Field factor.
His home/away numbers are very far apart.
Home: .360 avg / .458 opb / .610 slg
Road : .295 avg / .398 obp / .493 slg
But, if he can reach the milestones, then he will probably get into the HoF. >>
My god, I did not know it was THAT far apart!! That park is a pitcher's nightmare -- ask Mike Hampton (although I am sure he soothed his pain with all that money).
<< <i>I'd say Pete LaCo*k is way more underrated. >>
More so than the great 1960s pitcher "Dick Lines"?
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Todd Helton has had a fine career, no doubt. But there are too many question marks about him for me to place him in the Rod Carew category. Maybe the Chuck Klein category? Maybe not even that good yet.
<< <i>Not to mention that Rod Carew hit when there wasn't an offensive explosion. I don't think you can compare the batting averages of these generations just like that. Rod's first few seasons were in the late 60's when it was almost impossible to hold up a decent average. Yaz won a batting title at .301. Twice Helton has hit .320 and finished NINTH in the NL in batting. Rod won a batting title with a .318 average. He also won titles with averages that were 40-50 points better than second place frequently.
Todd Helton has had a fine career, no doubt. But there are too many question marks about him for me to place him in the Rod Carew category. Maybe the Chuck Klein category? Maybe not even that good yet. >>
not even close to chuck klein...klein DOMINATED FOR a 5 year stretch, won the MVP AND the TRIPLE CROWN....and played in a huge park.....
not even close to chuck klein...klein DOMINATED FOR a 5 year stretch, won the MVP AND the TRIPLE CROWN....and played in a huge park..... >>
You are way off base. Klein played in the Baker Bowl, perhaps the greatest hitter's park of all time.
The Coors Field of it's day, the Baker Bowl produced some truly astonishing offensive performances. For instance, in 1920 the Phillies (led by Cy Williams) smacked 50 HR at home and just 14 on the road. The ballpark reliably boosted run production by 25% a year, and home runs by even more than that, throughout the 1920s and 1930s until it was abandoned n 1938..
Far and away the liveliest ballpark of a lively era, the Hump helped Ed Delahanty and Chuck Klein earn their Hall of Fame credentials. Klein put in a Triple Crown performance in 1933, and was selected the National League's Most Valuable Player, leading the senior circuit in hits (226), runs (152), home runs (38), stolen bases (20), and hitting a remarkable .348 and driving in 137 RBIs.
Remarkably, Grover Cleveland Alexander also performed well here. His 1916 record of sixteen shutouts is still the season record (that season, the Phillies smacked 29 HR at home and just 13 on the road). Over two decades, Alexander won 5 ERA titles, led the league in innings pitched 7 times, and in wins, complete games and strikeouts 6 times each.
So, a great pitcher can succeed here - but Alexander the Great was surely the exception. Built on an oddly shaped parcel of land, Baker Bowl had unusual dimensions. From home plate to the bleachers down the left field line was a healthy 341 feet, to dead center field a respectable 408 feet. However, many a ball was rocketed off the right field wall because it was only 280 feet from home plate down the right field line, a neighborly 310-320 feet in the right center field power ally. Because of the cozy right field wall, Baker Bowl was often described as a "cigar box" and "band box."
but never too easy, or completely objective, unless they were lifetime teammates.
Rod Carew played in a time when the AIR or offensive environment was a 94, favoring pitchers, he batted .328/.260 in relation to his peers, and his park factor adjusted OPS +, was 131.
Chuck Klien played in an AIR of 110, favoring hitters, he batted .320/.293 in relation to his peers, his career adjusted OPS + is 137.
Todd Lynn Helton played, is still playing, in an era which has an AIR of 124, greatly favoring hitters overall, he batted .327/.288 compared to his peers, and with the Coors ballpark being imperfectly adjusted for, he still produces an outstanding 141 OPS +.
He doesn't get the credit he deserves because he was a DH and didn't play the field, but his batting numbers were solid.
H- 2247
R- 1219
HR-309
RBI-1261
BA-.312
SLG- .515
Coors Field + "the list" =