CoinNews: "Palladium UHR $20 Call Joined in US House"
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Palladium UHR $20 Call Joined in US House
By Mike Unser on Aug 3rd, 2009
An earlier year Senate bill calling for .995 pure palladium one-ounce UHR $20 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle coins was joined by a House version introduced Thursday, July 30, by Rep. Dennis Rehberg [R-MT]. Both bills seek to produce "coins in palladium to provide affordable opportunities for investments in precious metals."
House Resolution 3405, the Original Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Ultra-High Relief Bullion Coin Act of 2009, is nearly identical to the same named Senate bill, S. 758, brought forward by Sen. Max Baucus [D-MT] on April 1.
The legislation states the coins must "bear exact replicas of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimeter version of the 1907 Double Eagle ultra-high relief gold piece and the edge of the coin shall have all appropriate raised lettering in the same manner as the original coin."
H.R. 3405 would have the Mint strike up to 15,000 of the $20 gold coins in both proof an uncirculated options. The legislation mandates that these collector coin may:
■Only be minted in 2009
•"Only be struck at the United States Mint at West Point, New York"
■"Not be minted in fractional sizes
H.R. 3405 also states that if "a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high-relief numismatic coins is issued," the palladium coin "may only be issued in a set containing 1 of each such coins," and in a " presentation case of appropriate design."
Additionally, the bill calls for annual bullion investment versions with mintage levels determined by the Secretary of Treasure. Interestingly, West Point would be prohibited from producing them.
Finally, the palladium used within the coins would be restricted to deposits mined in the United States, which would be a significant boon to Montana’s Stillwater Mining Company — the only US producer of palladium.
"There are more than thirteen-hundred Montanans at Stillwater Mine right now who are worried because the government-controlled General Motors yanked the contract that feeds their families out from under them," Rep. Dennis Rehberg stated Friday.
"This bill won’t replace the GM contract, but by creating a new bullion coin, minted from a resource produced solely in our backyard, we can increase demand to provide a boost for Stillwater at a time when they really need one."
"The proposed legislation which would create an Ultra-High Relief Saint-Gaudens palladium bullion coin is terribly exciting for the men and women of the Stillwater Mining Company of Montana who proudly produce palladium from the extraordinarily majestic Beartooth Mountains immediately north of Yellowstone National Park," commented Frank McAllister, Chairman & CEO of the Stillwater Mining Company.
Modern UHR $20 gold pieces were launched in early 2009 with an average price of over $1200 per coin. Despite a sizable collector base that has been chased away by the cost, the coins have been extremely popular. The US Mint sold 28,173 on launch day and 40,727 within the first four days.
Palladium is a precious metal like gold, but vastly less expensive. An ounce of palladium has ranged from $185 to $268 between early January and the morning of this writing. In contrast, an ounce of gold has ranged from $926 to $960 during the same time frame.
Both the House and Senate bills are within respective committees awaiting some action. Similar bills were introduced in each house last year. The House version passed, but the legislation stalled in the Senate. The measure died with the conclusion of the 110th Congress. For coin legislation to become law, they must pass both in the House and Senate, and get signed by the President.
CoinNews
By Mike Unser on Aug 3rd, 2009
An earlier year Senate bill calling for .995 pure palladium one-ounce UHR $20 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle coins was joined by a House version introduced Thursday, July 30, by Rep. Dennis Rehberg [R-MT]. Both bills seek to produce "coins in palladium to provide affordable opportunities for investments in precious metals."
House Resolution 3405, the Original Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Ultra-High Relief Bullion Coin Act of 2009, is nearly identical to the same named Senate bill, S. 758, brought forward by Sen. Max Baucus [D-MT] on April 1.
The legislation states the coins must "bear exact replicas of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimeter version of the 1907 Double Eagle ultra-high relief gold piece and the edge of the coin shall have all appropriate raised lettering in the same manner as the original coin."
H.R. 3405 would have the Mint strike up to 15,000 of the $20 gold coins in both proof an uncirculated options. The legislation mandates that these collector coin may:
■Only be minted in 2009
•"Only be struck at the United States Mint at West Point, New York"
■"Not be minted in fractional sizes
H.R. 3405 also states that if "a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high-relief numismatic coins is issued," the palladium coin "may only be issued in a set containing 1 of each such coins," and in a " presentation case of appropriate design."
Additionally, the bill calls for annual bullion investment versions with mintage levels determined by the Secretary of Treasure. Interestingly, West Point would be prohibited from producing them.
Finally, the palladium used within the coins would be restricted to deposits mined in the United States, which would be a significant boon to Montana’s Stillwater Mining Company — the only US producer of palladium.
"There are more than thirteen-hundred Montanans at Stillwater Mine right now who are worried because the government-controlled General Motors yanked the contract that feeds their families out from under them," Rep. Dennis Rehberg stated Friday.
"This bill won’t replace the GM contract, but by creating a new bullion coin, minted from a resource produced solely in our backyard, we can increase demand to provide a boost for Stillwater at a time when they really need one."
"The proposed legislation which would create an Ultra-High Relief Saint-Gaudens palladium bullion coin is terribly exciting for the men and women of the Stillwater Mining Company of Montana who proudly produce palladium from the extraordinarily majestic Beartooth Mountains immediately north of Yellowstone National Park," commented Frank McAllister, Chairman & CEO of the Stillwater Mining Company.
Modern UHR $20 gold pieces were launched in early 2009 with an average price of over $1200 per coin. Despite a sizable collector base that has been chased away by the cost, the coins have been extremely popular. The US Mint sold 28,173 on launch day and 40,727 within the first four days.
Palladium is a precious metal like gold, but vastly less expensive. An ounce of palladium has ranged from $185 to $268 between early January and the morning of this writing. In contrast, an ounce of gold has ranged from $926 to $960 during the same time frame.
Both the House and Senate bills are within respective committees awaiting some action. Similar bills were introduced in each house last year. The House version passed, but the legislation stalled in the Senate. The measure died with the conclusion of the 110th Congress. For coin legislation to become law, they must pass both in the House and Senate, and get signed by the President.
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Comments
Only be minted in 2009
I have serious doubt that our government can do anything that quickly.
<< <i>Palladium UHR $20 Call Joined in US House
By Mike Unser on Aug 3rd, 2009
H.R. 3405 would have the Mint strike up to 15,000 of the $20 gold coins in both proof an uncirculated options. The legislation mandates that these collector coin may:
¡Only be minted in 2009
H.R. 3405 also states that if "a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high-relief numismatic coins is issued," the palladium coin "may only be issued in a set containing 1 of each such coins," and in a " presentation case of appropriate design."
Additionally, the bill calls for annual bullion investment versions with mintage levels determined by the Secretary of Treasury. Interestingly, West Point would be prohibited from producing them.
:
:
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Modern UHR $20 gold pieces were launched in early 2009 with an average price of over $1200 per coin. Despite a sizable collector base that has been chased away by the cost, the coins have been extremely popular. The US Mint sold 28,173 on launch day and 40,727 within the first four days.
editorial comment by me: and less than that many more since. With the new household limit of 10, I don't see these selling unless they are separate from the gold UHR. Plus, I hope they can act fast or they may as well forget about a 2009 issuance.
CoinNews >>
An ounce of palladium is going to be larger in volume than an ounce of gold. I doubt that the exact same dimensions can be accomplished in a one ounce palladium coin.
It is sort of pathetic, in my opinion, that this bill is being pushed through to satisfy one mine in the US.
Ford Motor Company, not long ago, lost more than a billion dollars speculating in Palladium. Today, the primary use for this metal is in vehicle catalytic converters.
I would be amazed if anything gets done in the year 2009 with respect to this.
The bill may currently contain wording restricting the source of the Palladium to a US Mine. The source of the gold for the UHR coin is Australia, not the US. When the Mint was claiming a planchet shortage, they were blaming Australia.
<< <i>Anyone care to speculate on the issue price of this coin if it were to be produced? I'd like to have one but wouldn't pay 2x melt. >>
considering the spot price and the hoped goal of making them affordable.....
I'd say well over the ~$1,300 price of the UHR alone. Not trying to be smart with you, but with the thought behind the bill instead. (it still reads that the numismatics have to be sold with the gold UHR)
If they really want it to be affordable, they'd make them all at west point to help keep QC consitent, super-simplify the packaging by forgetting the wooden boxes and using the same style as for the ASE, and make it a stand-alone product.
venture a guess for an individual price? not I.
I'll note Palladium is up around ~25%+ this year.
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone care to speculate on the issue price of this coin if it were to be produced? I'd like to have one but wouldn't pay 2x melt. >>
considering the spot price and the hoped goal of making them affordable.....
I'd say well over the ~$1,300 price of the UHR alone. Not trying to be smart with you, but with the thought behind the bill instead. (it still reads that the numismatics have to be sold with the gold UHR)
If they really want it to be affordable, they'd make them all at west point to help keep QC consitent, super-simplify the packaging by forgetting the wooden boxes and using the same style as for the ASE, and make it a stand-alone product.
venture a guess for an individual price? not I.
I'll note Palladium is up around ~25%+ this year.
Thanks for the chart MsMorrisine!!!
I had no clue about palladium's value!!!!
but it was also for everyone else and many may not follow it and I wanted to provide an approximate price idea.... and also provide (which I didn't point out) a bit more about the "affordability" aspect as it is ~25% less affordable than earlier this year. Can't help but wonder about affordability with that kind of increase.
And as I type, I recall the whole reason we don't have APE's... and now AGE's.... and ASE's... availability of silver blanks and to a lesser extent, gold blanks. But it has mostly been silver blanks.
OK....
1) people piled into silver as insurance... palladium? that $200-$300 metal? I think even if offered, the masses would have gone for silver more so than palladium.
2) we couldn't even get numismatic APE's, then as supply came back we're left wondering about the AGEs and finally when or if there is enough avilability for the ASEs... (they can only make all 3 or none?) Those miners might not be so happy to hear they'll have fewer sales due to some lack of blank availability in a completely different metal.
ugh.
I'd probably get one.
But I don't think i'd make it a habit to get one each year.
which I will soon
I think the palladium UHR would be cool looking.
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
for palladium coins
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>What's to prevent someone from gold plating a Palladium UHR and selling it as a more valuable Gold UHR? Hopefully there will be a change in the design or a special mark to differentiate the two coins. >>
Not the same size.
The size will be considerably different than the gold one. Palladium is much less dense than gold, so it (the Palladium UHR) will have to be larger.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>"What's to prevent someone from gold plating a Palladium UHR and selling it as a more valuable Gold UHR? Hopefully there will be a change in the design or a special mark to differentiate the two coins. "
The size will be considerably different than the gold one. Palladium is much less dense than gold, so it (the Palladium UHR) will have to be larger. >>
What size? Same as the MCMVII original UHR's? In any event, I'll order one if the premium over bullion isn't outrageous.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>"What's to prevent someone from gold plating a Palladium UHR and selling it as a more valuable Gold UHR? Hopefully there will be a change in the design or a special mark to differentiate the two coins. "
The size will be considerably different than the gold one. Palladium is much less dense than gold, so it (the Palladium UHR) will have to be larger. >>
What size? Same as the MCMVII original UHR's? In any event, I'll order one if the premium over bullion isn't outrageous. >>
The Palladium UHR can only, according to legislation, be minted as part of a set so you can expect the set to sell for around $1700-1800. If you take the gold UHR which is $1289 and add a Palladium coin with a $150 premium you will get a set that costs around that price
<< <i>The Palladium UHR can only, according to legislation, be minted as part of a set so you can expect the set to sell for around $1700-1800. If you take the gold UHR which is $1289 and add a Palladium coin with a $150 premium you will get a set that costs around that price >>
Sounds like the 1995-W silver eagle that was only available by buying the complete proof gold set. At this price, it will be a scarce coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If it does get signed though the set will be crazy expensive so that will gurantee a low mintage.
The US ships American sourced gold bars to Australia to be made into blanks, which are then shipped back to the US.
John
<< <i>
The US ships American sourced gold bars to Australia to be made into blanks, which are then shipped back to the US.
John >>
HTH would they ever know what comes back is what was sent in the first place? It is not like they can do a chemical on the gold. For all we know the Aussies are getting the gold, storing it, using it for something else and using Russian or Chinese gold to make the blanks for the UHR. Gold pretty much doesn't tell you a lot about where it came from or from what. For all we know the UHR's could be being made out of ancient Iraqi antiquities, dental gold pulled from concentration camp victims etc.
The question begs to be asked, why cannot the blanks be produced in the USA? Maybe it is like our passports, where some foreign company works on them now.
<< <i>For all we know the Aussies are getting the gold, storing it, using it for something else and using Russian or Chinese gold to make the blanks for the UHR. Gold pretty much doesn't tell you a lot about where it came from or from what. For all we know the UHR's could be being made out of ancient Iraqi antiquities, dental gold pulled from concentration camp victims etc. >>
Should anyone really care? Gold is an element so all pure gold is identical no matter the source. Right?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>For all we know the Aussies are getting the gold, storing it, using it for something else and using Russian or Chinese gold to make the blanks for the UHR. Gold pretty much doesn't tell you a lot about where it came from or from what. For all we know the UHR's could be being made out of ancient Iraqi antiquities, dental gold pulled from concentration camp victims etc. >>
Should anyone really care? Gold is an element so all pure gold is identical no matter the source. Right? >>
Obviously some do care, otherwise they would not specifically put ridiculous wording into legislation specifying that the palladium has to come from a specific mine in some congressman's district.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>For all we know the Aussies are getting the gold, storing it, using it for something else and using Russian or Chinese gold to make the blanks for the UHR. Gold pretty much doesn't tell you a lot about where it came from or from what. For all we know the UHR's could be being made out of ancient Iraqi antiquities, dental gold pulled from concentration camp victims etc. >>
Should anyone really care? Gold is an element so all pure gold is identical no matter the source. Right? >>
Obviously some do care, otherwise they would not specifically put ridiculous wording into legislation specifying that the palladium has to come from a specific mine in some congressman's district. >>
I should have asked if anyone other than the mine owners and the politicians that get big donations from those mine owners care.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
coins should be
gold, silver, nickel, or copper
call me old fashioned
<< <i>I may be too traditional
coins should be
gold, silver, nickel, or copper
call me old fashioned >>
You're old fashioned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
The US ships American sourced gold bars to Australia to be made into blanks, which are then shipped back to the US.
John >>
HTH would they ever know what comes back is what was sent in the first place? It is not like they can do a chemical on the gold. For all we know the Aussies are getting the gold, storing it, using it for something else and using Russian or Chinese gold to make the blanks for the UHR. Gold pretty much doesn't tell you a lot about where it came from or from what. For all we know the UHR's could be being made out of ancient Iraqi antiquities, dental gold pulled from concentration camp victims etc.
The question begs to be asked, why cannot the blanks be produced in the USA? Maybe it is like our passports, where some foreign company works on them now. >>
The gold blanks come from the Perth mint of Australia. They supply gold blanks for most of the countries around the world including the U.S . I'm pretty sure they keep the gold from other countries seperated when minting the blanks...
Yeah, they wouldn't want to do what the people are asking them to do. Dancing too close to the flame of the Constitution might get a politician burned.
I knew it would happen.
I hear some patterns or trials were in fact struck.
<< <i>I would suspect legislators find these "coin bills" a huge waste of their time. >>
If this were true, why are there so many new commems?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>bump...any news. I, for one, would like to see this coin made. Anyone else? >>
If this becomes law, I'll buy one if the premium over melt isn't excessively outrageous.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>bump...any news. I, for one, would like to see this coin made. Anyone else? >>
Yeah I'll definetly agree I'd love to see these made.. At first I was very hesitant thinking it would maybe be a slap in the face to Gus. Considering it was only meant to be a gold coin but then again it would also seem like a huge honor for his design to be the first minted in (Paladium). I don't know well enough if the U.S Mint has minted any coins in palladium yet but i'm pretty sure none yet..
The idea of a Palladium proof in UHR just sounds awesome. Plus the benafited fact that Palladium as a precious metal is almost completly identical to Platinum even the rarity of the metal is the same, but yet way cheaper hehe. So yeah I'm all for it but I don't see it happening..