What on earth is this?

adamlaneus

I purchased a low grade 1872-S quarter eagle in a PCGS F-15 slab.

The coin has an odd spot:




Whipping out the microscope lens and taking two pictures shows this:




Notice how at the edge appears to be lit. By turning off one of my two lights, I was able to tell that this is a very slight depression with a very sharp edge. It is not raised.

It is almost perfectly round, but not quite.

I'm at a loss. Even if you had a small tooling punch, it would probably be difficult to make such a mark.

It's hard to see in-hand; you have to hold it to the light just right. Fortunately, (or unfortunately) a good macro lens and good lighting can bring it out.


Some form of PMD that PCGS either didn't catch or didn't feel was serious enough to not slab?

A strikethrough of something very round and flat? Since the color seems a tad different in the spot, i'm tending towards PMD.

stinkinlincoln

Not sure, I saw your other thread in which TDN pointed this issue out.


This thread is getting bookmarked for future reading. Ive never seen anything like that before. My first thought was maybe it was a plag, but it seems like if it was, its the best plug job ever done.

TomB

That's interesting. What does the reverse look like?

adamlaneus

I posted the reverse.

If it is a plug, then they did a darn good job with the lettering on the reverse.

It's awfully small for a hole; holes are usually larger than this. This thing is probably not quite 2mm in diameter.

fcloud

I wonder if it is like a dropped letter, but is a dropped dot.

stinkinlincoln

Has there been a dot like that used on coins anywhere around the time it was struck?


That should limit the scope abit on that end at least?

Placid

Could it be a die clash from the dots near the 2-1/2

fcloud

<< <i>Has there been a dot like that used on coins anywhere around the time it was struck?


That should limit the scope abit on that end at least? >>



Check the reverse before and after the 2 1/2

Robb

I'm thinking a very well executed plug. Do you have 'scoped images on the reverse to check for tooling?

CopperWire

which dropped dot would it be fcloud?

stinkinlincoln

<< Has there been a dot like that used on coins anywhere around the time it was struck?


That should limit the scope abit on that end at least? >>



<<Check the reverse before and after the 2 1/2 >>


I saw those, but from the pics, they look to small. I could be wrong though.


OP, have you checked to see if they are the same size as the dots on the denomination?

fcloud

No way of knowing, but it is possible from a previous coin. Both dots on the coin look the same, so it would rule out the dots from the striking of that coin, but could well be from a previously struck coin.

Edscoin

Looks like a hole just started and not finished all the way through, Then repaired. But would PCGS slab a repaired coin?

adamlaneus

Extreme close-up of the reverse of the coin, opposite of the feature in question:




Although there is a hit in the "R", I don't think I see evidence of a plug job on the reverse. Or I don't know what evidence of a plug job looks like.

adamlaneus

The dot on the obverse is obviously larger than the dots on either side of the 2 1/2 on the reverse.

Yet...

You would expect a detached dot to be smashed by the die, and the depression ought to be larger than the original dot, correct?


I did learn something at least. I did not know what a "Dropped Letter" was prior to this post.

GrumpyEd

Could it possibly be raised instead of a depression?
It looks like a drop of glue or something?

adamlaneus

It is difficult to tell if it is raised or depressed.

The pictures I show you are illuminated by two lights. Raised, or depressed, you would see something bright on either side of the spot.

When I turn one of the two lights off, the FAR edge seems brighter. Indicating that it may be a depression.
Also, the color of the rim seems to be gold. Meaning that the ridge may be metal rather than a glue blob. Yet a glue blob could pick up on the gold color.
Seems awfully small, perfect and shallow for a dot of glue.

Even when I see this with my own eyes, I have a healthy dose of skepticism.

If the coin were not in a slab, I could try to get a side profile of the thing.

Wish I had a proper microscope.

Blackhawk

Maybe it's a casting sprue.

richardshipp

Way over my pay grade to even guess but I like the thought of a dropped dot from the reverse of another coin getting struck into the obv of this one.... sounds good anyway.

WoodenJefferson

Hypothetically, if this indeed a depressed area, then it might have very well been a gas bubble trapped in the planchet as it was rolled out to thickness. When the coin was struck, the gas compressed leaving a circular depression.

coinlieutenant

That is a Doug Winter question....if it is raised slightly, my bet is plug job that PCGS missed. Maybe Doug has seen before. I like the date btw....

CaptHenway

<< <i>It is difficult to tell if it is raised or depressed.

The pictures I show you are illuminated by two lights. Raised, or depressed, you would see something bright on either side of the spot.

When I turn one of the two lights off, the FAR edge seems brighter. Indicating that it may be a depression.
Also, the color of the rim seems to be gold. Meaning that the ridge may be metal rather than a glue blob. Yet a glue blob could pick up on the gold color.
Seems awfully small, perfect and shallow for a dot of glue.

Even when I see this with my own eyes, I have a healthy dose of skepticism.

If the coin were not in a slab, I could try to get a side profile of the thing.

Wish I had a proper microscope. >>



Judging from the shadows, I would bet that it is raised. Please reshoot the closeups with a single light source.

Could be a small blob of glue, or varnish, or shellac, or anything spattered on the coin long ago. If translucent, it would transmit the gold color underneath.

TD

adamlaneus

Reshot:





It does look like a translucent blob of glue, doesn't it?

NumisOxide

<< <i>Looks like a hole just started and not finished all the way through, Then repaired. But would PCGS slab a repaired coin? >>


Same thing I was thinking.

adamlaneus

That is what this icon is for:




The prostitutes of old San Francisco were into sniffing glue, then? The history you learn with coins is astounding.

NumisOxide

<< <i>Reshot:





It does look like a translucent blob of glue, doesn't it? >>


Yes, it does. I now change my last opinion!

WoodenJefferson

Yes, those re-shots make it look like a clear liquid that solidified.

(or a acrylic plastic piece that was sonically sealed onto the coin)