Article: "Collector gets counterfeit Canadian coins removed from eBay"
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eBay agrees to take copied coins off site
Collector gets counterfeit Canadian coins removed from eBay
Posted By Ian Robertson – Sun Media
An Eastern Ontario man is rejoicing in the recent success of his two-year campaign to get counterfeits of classic Canadian coins dropped from eBay.
But it was a long and often frustrating haul for Mike Marshall, a collector and military retiree.
Marshall, 48, first faced a wall of disinterest and dismissal from police, plus officials in Ottawa, he said in an interview from Trenton.
And he said several “unscrupulous secondary sellers” who knowingly bought the made-in-China fakes then offered them for resale as genuine rarities, tried to undermine his attempt to alert officials, the public and collecting world.
“I even had someone threaten me on an eBay chat line,” Marshall said.
What he and the RCMP got removed over the past week are not poorly moulded lead quarters, half-dollars and even the occasional dime and nickel that crooks duped the public with in the first half of the last century.
Instead, they are die-struck fakes of older Canadian and Newfoundland coins from large copper cents to gold spheres.
Six Chinese firms still produce them and legitimately sell their product in China, but they’re no longer listed on eBay, said Bret Evans, managing editor of the Canadian Coin News.
Newfoundland joined Confederation in 1949, but its old coins remain valid as pocket change, so fakes -- not marked as being copies -- fall under federal anti-counterfeiting laws.
The RCMP counterfeiting investigator, who backed Marshall and joined his campaign, said eBay will issue a statement today about banning sales of Chinese-made so-called “replica” and “copy” coins which were advertised with warning marks but were rarely counter-stamped as such.
Toronto-based eBay Canada Ltd. did not return an interview request made last Friday.
But earlier this week, RCMP Sgt. Tony Farahbakhchian praised officials at the California-based internet auction firm’s headquarters.
“It is a big victory,” he told the Sun from his Surrey, B.C. office. “We’ve had the utmost co-operation from eBay.”
They were not aware of the situation,” Farahbakhchian said. “They didn’t think they were doing anything wrong and we have thousands of these coins out there.”
Thanks to Marshall, the RCMP will have one of each -- a reference collection of 117 fake coins which, he said, cost $1,200.
He paid $221 for a complete set of 80 coins still available for direct purchase from one Beijing firm. If genuine, they would list in the trends column of the Canadian Coin News, a St. Catharines-based hobby paper, for $296,312.
‘Huge Part’
“Mr. Marshall played a huge part of it,” Farahbakhchian said of his efforts. “He spearheaded this.”
Collectors can pay big bucks for rare coins.
Not all replicas were of key coins, Evans said. But even those that appeared shiny and new appealed to collectors who could normally only afford a low-grade worn coin.
The problem is not just the buyer who wanted a good-looking coin, Marshall said.
It is also an unknowing estate seller or, worse, fraudsters who list them on eBay as genuine rarities worth hundreds, even thousands of dollars, Farahbakhchian said.
A knowledgeable collector can spot most copies by their metal content and slightly larger size, Marshall said.
Closer examination reveals mistakes such as incorrect typefaces and other flaws.
But Marshall said “unless you engrave them or mark them as copies, they’re going to find their way on to the market.”
“People would lose faith in the integrity of Canadian coins,” Farahbakhchian said.
Ironically, Marshall said, a U.S.-based eBay executive told him sales of Canadian coin copies would be halted if a police or government agency alerted them that making, selling or possessing fakes is illegal under federal laws.
“I begged local police to seize the ones I bought,” to get the story out as a warning, he said. “They just laughed at me.”
A senior official at the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa appeared interested during initial discussions, “but I haven’t heard back from him in quite a while.”
Federal officials took notice after Farahbakhchian alerted investigators two months ago at an anti-counterfeiting conference in Niagara Falls, showing them detailed articles Marshall wrote in the paper.
“Technically, you cannot possess any counterfeit coin,” the Mountie said. “It’s subject to the RCMP seizing them.”
The RCMP, however, is kept much busier chasing mass counterfeit currency crooks, plus importers of often-shoddy foreign-made fake commercial products.
To prosecute someone even with a small counterfeit collection, “you have to prove the person knew they were fake,” Farahbakhchian said.
In the U.S., collectors can legally own a small reference collection of forgeries.
China permits production of coins pre-dating 1949. In addition to having an RCMP computer link for collectors to view the fakes Marshall donated, Farahbakhchian plans to have the force’s liaison officer appeal to its government to have companies cease making Canadian replicas.
As a collector, “I can tell the difference, but these are dangerously close,” he said. “People inheriting such coins may not know they are fakes.”
Examples of fakes that could fool an uninformed buyer include copies of a 1921 50 cents silver coin which fetches up to $100,000 if real.
Since beginning his appeal, Marshall said, “I get at least two calls a week from people who have been duped.”
In one classic case of money not well spent, Edmonton collector Neal Shymko paid $4,000 for made-in China copies of Canadian coins he later learned were fakes.
A senior who lives near Trenton recently contacted Marshall about an 1894 50 cents piece which the buyer thought was worth thousands of dollars. He was left broken-hearted that “he spent a great deal of money on a $3 piece of slag.”
One Hong Kong firm even tarnished some copies of its “key date” 1948 silver dollars – rarest of the large coins circulated from 1935-67 – to appeal to collectors who knew top-grade versions had been faked.
For more information about real and fake Canadians coins, Marshall recommends a website: canadiancoin.com.
Link
Collector gets counterfeit Canadian coins removed from eBay
Posted By Ian Robertson – Sun Media
An Eastern Ontario man is rejoicing in the recent success of his two-year campaign to get counterfeits of classic Canadian coins dropped from eBay.
But it was a long and often frustrating haul for Mike Marshall, a collector and military retiree.
Marshall, 48, first faced a wall of disinterest and dismissal from police, plus officials in Ottawa, he said in an interview from Trenton.
And he said several “unscrupulous secondary sellers” who knowingly bought the made-in-China fakes then offered them for resale as genuine rarities, tried to undermine his attempt to alert officials, the public and collecting world.
“I even had someone threaten me on an eBay chat line,” Marshall said.
What he and the RCMP got removed over the past week are not poorly moulded lead quarters, half-dollars and even the occasional dime and nickel that crooks duped the public with in the first half of the last century.
Instead, they are die-struck fakes of older Canadian and Newfoundland coins from large copper cents to gold spheres.
Six Chinese firms still produce them and legitimately sell their product in China, but they’re no longer listed on eBay, said Bret Evans, managing editor of the Canadian Coin News.
Newfoundland joined Confederation in 1949, but its old coins remain valid as pocket change, so fakes -- not marked as being copies -- fall under federal anti-counterfeiting laws.
The RCMP counterfeiting investigator, who backed Marshall and joined his campaign, said eBay will issue a statement today about banning sales of Chinese-made so-called “replica” and “copy” coins which were advertised with warning marks but were rarely counter-stamped as such.
Toronto-based eBay Canada Ltd. did not return an interview request made last Friday.
But earlier this week, RCMP Sgt. Tony Farahbakhchian praised officials at the California-based internet auction firm’s headquarters.
“It is a big victory,” he told the Sun from his Surrey, B.C. office. “We’ve had the utmost co-operation from eBay.”
They were not aware of the situation,” Farahbakhchian said. “They didn’t think they were doing anything wrong and we have thousands of these coins out there.”
Thanks to Marshall, the RCMP will have one of each -- a reference collection of 117 fake coins which, he said, cost $1,200.
He paid $221 for a complete set of 80 coins still available for direct purchase from one Beijing firm. If genuine, they would list in the trends column of the Canadian Coin News, a St. Catharines-based hobby paper, for $296,312.
‘Huge Part’
“Mr. Marshall played a huge part of it,” Farahbakhchian said of his efforts. “He spearheaded this.”
Collectors can pay big bucks for rare coins.
Not all replicas were of key coins, Evans said. But even those that appeared shiny and new appealed to collectors who could normally only afford a low-grade worn coin.
The problem is not just the buyer who wanted a good-looking coin, Marshall said.
It is also an unknowing estate seller or, worse, fraudsters who list them on eBay as genuine rarities worth hundreds, even thousands of dollars, Farahbakhchian said.
A knowledgeable collector can spot most copies by their metal content and slightly larger size, Marshall said.
Closer examination reveals mistakes such as incorrect typefaces and other flaws.
But Marshall said “unless you engrave them or mark them as copies, they’re going to find their way on to the market.”
“People would lose faith in the integrity of Canadian coins,” Farahbakhchian said.
Ironically, Marshall said, a U.S.-based eBay executive told him sales of Canadian coin copies would be halted if a police or government agency alerted them that making, selling or possessing fakes is illegal under federal laws.
“I begged local police to seize the ones I bought,” to get the story out as a warning, he said. “They just laughed at me.”
A senior official at the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa appeared interested during initial discussions, “but I haven’t heard back from him in quite a while.”
Federal officials took notice after Farahbakhchian alerted investigators two months ago at an anti-counterfeiting conference in Niagara Falls, showing them detailed articles Marshall wrote in the paper.
“Technically, you cannot possess any counterfeit coin,” the Mountie said. “It’s subject to the RCMP seizing them.”
The RCMP, however, is kept much busier chasing mass counterfeit currency crooks, plus importers of often-shoddy foreign-made fake commercial products.
To prosecute someone even with a small counterfeit collection, “you have to prove the person knew they were fake,” Farahbakhchian said.
In the U.S., collectors can legally own a small reference collection of forgeries.
China permits production of coins pre-dating 1949. In addition to having an RCMP computer link for collectors to view the fakes Marshall donated, Farahbakhchian plans to have the force’s liaison officer appeal to its government to have companies cease making Canadian replicas.
As a collector, “I can tell the difference, but these are dangerously close,” he said. “People inheriting such coins may not know they are fakes.”
Examples of fakes that could fool an uninformed buyer include copies of a 1921 50 cents silver coin which fetches up to $100,000 if real.
Since beginning his appeal, Marshall said, “I get at least two calls a week from people who have been duped.”
In one classic case of money not well spent, Edmonton collector Neal Shymko paid $4,000 for made-in China copies of Canadian coins he later learned were fakes.
A senior who lives near Trenton recently contacted Marshall about an 1894 50 cents piece which the buyer thought was worth thousands of dollars. He was left broken-hearted that “he spent a great deal of money on a $3 piece of slag.”
One Hong Kong firm even tarnished some copies of its “key date” 1948 silver dollars – rarest of the large coins circulated from 1935-67 – to appeal to collectors who knew top-grade versions had been faked.
For more information about real and fake Canadians coins, Marshall recommends a website: canadiancoin.com.
Link
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Comments
Next time you get an ebay survey tell them.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Neither the Canadians nor the US has jurisdiction over Chinese sellers. Chinese sellers can list whatever they want on eBay. eBay has always (or at least for many years) had a policy that disallowed fakes (whether fakes of Canadian coins or not). The problem is identifying all the fakes and getting them removed by eBay one by one.
I think the solution is to ban all sellers of coins from the Far East, but I don't see how eBay would forego that much money.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
It is very sad, that a wealthy country like China lets this go on.
maybe we should let our congressmen and women let them know they are not getting their cut, and maybe they will do something. LOL
most of China populatiion is living in very poor conditions and struggling to eat
Does anyone else find it scary that six "firms" are known producers of fake classic Canadian coins? Six! That means there are likely 20 firms doing U. S. coins because the market is so much bigger. How many well made fakes have already found homes in U. S. collections? Many of them likely bought by unscrupulous buyers and resold at off venues such as flea markets or garage sales where the level of expertise is low, and the paper trail near non-existent. Banning foreign sellers would only slow down the counterfeiters. The makers already have customer lists of unscrupulous middlemen from the few years they have been operating. The middlemen have already shown their stripes.
Well, at least there is some good news. It can definitely make a dent on Canadian fakes. Unfortunately, it may mean that those six firms increase production of U.K. empire and U.S. fakes.
<< <i>I think this article is meaningless.
Neither the Canadians nor the US has jurisdiction over Chinese sellers. Chinese sellers can list whatever they want on eBay. eBay has always (or at least for many years) had a policy that disallowed fakes (whether fakes of Canadian coins or not). The problem is identifying all the fakes and getting them removed by eBay one by one.
I think the solution is to ban all sellers of coins from the Far East, but I don't see how eBay would forego that much money. >>
I think the RCMP was suggesting eBay, not the Chinese sellers, could be prosecuted under Canadian law. And it looks like EBay got the message.
<< <i>how many people believe the government should be responsible for removing all of life's risks ? should bad investments be illegal ? how about bad luck ? car accidents ? heartbreaks ? why not bills, nasty tasting food and even the common cold. should a gov employee be sent out to everyones home to wipe your a$$ every day so you dont have to do it as well ? a 15 year old girl can tell the difference in a real vs phony prada purse but an adult needs someone to tell him that he paid thousands of dollars for a fake 1894 half dollar. am i the only one in the world that feels this way ? >>
That's not the point. Canada has a law that forbids the sale of replicas of current Canadian coins, and the Canadian authorities reminded eBay that they were bound by their laws if they do business in Canada.
People get busted for selling phony Prada purses. Why shouldn't they get busted for selling phony money?
If you started making color copies of older-style $20 Federal Reserve notes (the ones without the security features) and put them for sale on eBay, it won't matter how many times you swear up and down that you're selling a copy. I guarantee the Secret Service will want to have a word with you, because, no matter how you try to justify it, it's illegal.
what MY point was that it is ultimately the responsibility of the buyer to be aware of what he/she is buying. there is absolutely no reason for anyone to "be taken" by a fake seated dollar (for instance) because of the huge amount of info available if one even attempts to look. there are ways to avoid buying fake items, but i guess rather than do a little research, it is easier to try and get a law passed that will essentially do nothing.