We all know PCGS is considered the top, but after that...it gets blurry
erikbedard
Posts: 38
because if the same coin is sent to NGC and ANACS, ANACS would probably give it a lower grade than NGC...i can't stress this enough, that ANACS grades most times cross over to PCGS...and they ARE tough graders. for selling purposes, PCGS beats them, BUT in many auctions, just flip through your red book, or search it, hundred thousand dollar coins have been auctioned off that were ANACS graded. ANACS does call out cleaned coins...NGC's slab may look better to some people...but i think the blue ANACS slab with the yellow space for the grade is QUITE attractive, however, it seems to break a lot judging by what people have written...but ANACS is DEFINITELY above ICG right now. If someone had a choice of which to buy, a same key date coin in the same condition by ANACS or ICG, he would chose ANACS. also, the ANACS one would go for more money...many people have reminisced here about how ANACS does have MANY accurately and even, undergraded coins. To me, it goes PCGS, ANACS, NGC, then that's all. i don't consider ICG a real TPG, or at least i would NEVER buy a coin over 200 dollars that was ICG graded. ANACS has perks too. no membership fee, cheaper submission...it has it all...you just have to look closely. ANACS should get at least the respect as a top level TPG LEVEL with NGC
0
Comments
You firmly believe in yours while discounting the others.
peacockcoins
It gets even blurrier when you consider that what ANACS is now was once ICG and what ICG is now............was once ANACS!
It really all boils down to buy the coin and not the holder but there are many folks that simply do not have the option of actually "seeing" the coin in hand before bidding. This is especially true of eBay and certain Teletrade and even Heritage auctions. You just don't get a chance to look ahead of time! The net result is that bidders roll with the numbers in that PCGS slabs just get more money while ANACS can be a little iffy and ICG just doesn't get any respect!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Yep! It gets blurry!
It gets even blurrier when you consider that what ANACS is now was once ICG and what ICG is now............was once ANACS!
I would add to this that both companies will have to go through several years of blurriness before they earn any respect. As far as I am concerned-there are only two companies worth considering at this time.
It shows that Anacs slabed coins sell for 10% less on the average than ICG and 20% lower than NGC. I really do not trust any other TPG other than PCGS when it comes to buying PL and DMPL Morgan's.
Where do you get your statistics
Now.......I will get flamed for this but..
Around a year ago NGC was TIGHTER than PCGS on Morgans & Walkers. They have now backed of a little. PCGS is a lil tighter than the other 3 which is not necesarilly a bad thing. NGC is very tough on cleaned stuff over the past 3 years or so and I have not seen them pushing out as much if any cleaned AU semi key stuff like they did in the past. ANACS seems to be on a par with NGC probably in the Morgan/Walker widget area. That said I would have to be nuts to send a proof $3 gold to anacs instead of NGC or PCGS since they dont bring near the money. Unless I thought I could get a grade bump of 1 and probably more like 2 points I wouldnt do it.
ICG not sure what their status is. When they first started they were tighter than anyone else on morgan/peace/ & walkers but were horrible at 19th century type coins. I buy those widget coins if they are correctly graded or undergraded. There are very few surviving ICG 65 morgan holders from their first 6 months or so of operations. Currently not sure if they are above water and still slabbing or not.
<< <i>i am an atheist >>
Do you believe in CAC?
peacockcoins
<< <i>"We all know PCGS is considered the top,...." Are they the top or just the most conservative? >>
I've read that NGC has slabbed more coins than PCGS which makes them the larger company. Does anyone have the hard numbers to confirm this?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You firmly believe in yours while discounting the others.
classic response
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
My current take on the VALUE of the holders for Busties is:
PCGS, first by a wide margin
NGC, about 25% below PCGS
ICG & ANACS, normally about tied, below NGC by about 20% in value
When talking about Classic Commemoratives, NGC is usually very close to PCGS in value, but at least 5% below. The market for ICG Classic Commemoratives is thin, maybe 10% below NGC. As I see, there is very little market for ANACS Classic Commemoratives. Sorry, but that is what I have seen on the bourse floor, and auction prices realized.
JMHO
<< <i>Grading Services is like religion.
You firmly believe in yours while discounting the others.
classic response >>
I dont disregard any holder when I'm buying. I do though look extra extra hard if its a high end coin in an anacs or icg holder. Most of the time theres a reason anything over 1k is on one of those holders and its usually not good.
IE: low end for the grade and may not cross or has a problem of some sort that someone missed and will not cross.
<< <i>This is from the Coin Dealer Newsleter Certified Coin Market Indicator July 3, 2009.
It shows that Anacs slabed coins sell for 10% less on the average than ICG and 20% lower than NGC. I really do not trust any other TPG other than PCGS when it comes to buying PL and DMPL Morgan's.
Where do you get your statistics
i get my stats from eBAY when i look at auctions...ANACS has a classic, ivy league stigma to it that ICG just lacks
<< <i>
<< <i>This is from the Coin Dealer Newsleter Certified Coin Market Indicator July 3, 2009.
It shows that Anacs slabed coins sell for 10% less on the average than ICG and 20% lower than NGC. I really do not trust any other TPG other than PCGS when it comes to buying PL and DMPL Morgan's.
Where do you get your statistics
i get my stats from eBAY when i look at auctions...ANACS has a classic, ivy league stigma to it that ICG just lacks >>
From the ANA days.
But since icg and anacs are virtually swapped in terms of the people running the show etc. , Doesnt that make them some sort of mutant grading service ala the movie "the fly".
<< <i>How about considering the coin inside the holder instead of the holder? I dont care what slab its in if the price is good for how I grade the coin. We all know this is a game. Sending in the same coin and getting different grades each time. >>
Dealers are the biggest abusers of the buy the holder not the coin thing. How many times have yawl been lowballed by a dealer simply because a nice coin is in the wrong holder. Next time I hear that from a dealer he is gonna get a GFY response.
<< <i> We all know this is a game. Sending in the same coin and getting different grades each time. >>
I'd wager that is due to the fact that the individual graders aren't all that consistent. I suppose if you run the same coin past the same grader once a month for 6 months it would probly get the same grade every time. Now try that with EVERY full time grader at PCGS.
<< <i>
<< <i>How about considering the coin inside the holder instead of the holder? I dont care what slab its in if the price is good for how I grade the coin. We all know this is a game. Sending in the same coin and getting different grades each time. >>
Dealers are the biggest abusers of the buy the holder not the coin thing. How many times have yawl been lowballed by a dealer simply because a nice coin is in the wrong holder. Next time I hear that from a dealer he is gonna get a GFY response. >>
Why does a person believe that the average dealer offers lower? Might it be that it takes longer to sell an ANACS holdered coin at the same price, or requires a bigger discount from guide prices to move it? Reality check please. Dealers are in business to make money, not to disparage any one company. If ANACS holdered coins sold at the same price at the same speed, dealer offers would be the same--that's how the dealers make the money. Good inventory is tough to come by. Dealer offers tend to be lower on ANACS coins for a reason, and it isn't about koolaid. Collectors are better off understanding the reasoning instead of complaining about the way the world is.
As for the original post, I encourage all the readers to dig into the auction archives for the coins they are interested in buying or selling. For some coins, some series, some grades there is no measurable difference in average price. For some coins, there are so few results there isn't enough data to reach a meaningful conclusion. For other coins, there is a wide moat and ANACS holdered might go for a big discount vs. some of the other companies including NGC. Don't take anyone's word for any of it. Check out the data at the major auction sites (Heritage, Teletrade, Ebay) for the coins you are interested in, and go on the average, not a few exceptions. The data is there for all to see.
<< <i>
<< <i>i am an atheist >>
Do you believe in CAC? >>
I believe in Yoko
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How about considering the coin inside the holder instead of the holder? I dont care what slab its in if the price is good for how I grade the coin. We all know this is a game. Sending in the same coin and getting different grades each time. >>
Dealers are the biggest abusers of the buy the holder not the coin thing. How many times have yawl been lowballed by a dealer simply because a nice coin is in the wrong holder. Next time I hear that from a dealer he is gonna get a GFY response. >>
Why does a person believe that the average dealer offers lower? Might it be that it takes longer to sell an ANACS holdered coin at the same price, or requires a bigger discount from guide prices to move it? Reality check please. Dealers are in business to make money, not to disparage any one company. If ANACS holdered coins sold at the same price at the same speed, dealer offers would be the same--that's how the dealers make the money. Good inventory is tough to come by. Dealer offers tend to be lower on ANACS coins for a reason, and it isn't about koolaid. Collectors are better off understanding the reasoning instead of complaining about the way the world is.
As for the original post, I encourage all the readers to dig into the auction archives for the coins they are interested in buying or selling. For some coins, some series, some grades there is no measurable difference in average price. For some coins, there are so few results there isn't enough data to reach a meaningful conclusion. For other coins, there is a wide moat and ANACS holdered might go for a big discount vs. some of the other companies including NGC. Don't take anyone's word for any of it. Check out the data at the major auction sites (Heritage, Teletrade, Ebay) for the coins you are interested in, and go on the average, not a few exceptions. The data is there for all to see. >>
I know what the reasoning is, but dealers assume that the seller doesn't. No matter how nice the coin is they still try to lowball you just cuz of the slab. I have also seen them pull out the bluesheet for PCGS coins.
Camelot
..oh boy - do you need enlightenment
what planet do you live on ??
I took it home and scrubbed it vigorously with baking soda and water -
then sent it to ANACS (it was 1982 or 1983) and noted I dug it out of the ground in the space for comment s at the bottom of the form ........
It came back MS63/MS63