Seated Halves and Disappointment

Mowgli

Today I took out a date set of Seated Liberty Halves that I put together over the years. At the time I did these I was pretty proud of myself as some of these coins have mintages numbering 5000 coins or less and were pretty challenging to find in XF. While I understaood very well what an XF coin looked like, I was blindly ignorant to whizzing, harsh cleaning, dipping etc. Some were slabbed but most I purchased from the reputable dealers who specialized in such coins - and we know who they are.

Today I see a whizzed coin, some way too shiney, a lot of them over-dipped etc. With the emphasis on these board for natural coins and lots of comments on such coins being only worth "melt" it feels like a waste of time and money on something I actually enjoyed collecting and used to feel pretty good about. How many people can actually do a date set - there is currently only one on the Registry that is 100% complete. There are only seven active. I just figured they were hard to find in a condition that allowed them to be slabbed.

So on one hand it feels like a fairly difficult accomplishment but based on the values of many people on this board, it feels like 56 coins that are worth $600.

As a collector it isn't important to me financially but it feels like I belong on a Craig's List board more than this one.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>it feels like 56 coins that are worth $600. >>

SOLD! Where do I send the check?

We all evolve as collectors.

And there is nothing wrong with your set, even if some of them do have little issues. It sounds to me like you've just got a case of forum-inspired doubt, that's all.

The forums are a great place to acquire knowledge and make friends, but sometimes they can inspire envy or self-doubt. Try not to let that happen. It's an easy trap to fall into, as I can attest from long personal experience with it. With what is essentially a solitary pursuit, it's amazing how much our opinions of our own coins are often shaped by the opinions of others.

Remember, no matter how advanced your knowledge or your collection becomes, there is always gonna be somebody out there who puts either or both to shame. But on the flip side, there are always going to be folks who look up to YOU.

Don't second-guess your past accomplishments.

CopperWire

I keep seeing this hobby as a journey. The further along I travel my perspective changes. I can look back and remember how little I used to know. This means I have so much more to learn. Just have fun with the trip!

lordmarcovan

That last bit pretty much sums up what I was getting at, in far fewer words.

CoinJunkie

It sounds like a good starting point for upgrading the coins you now find unsatisfactory! No shame involved, we all learn
as we go.

Coinosaurus

Depending on when you bought these you will probably still come out ahead. Not as well as if you had been buying better coins, but that's just part of learning.....

longtimecollector

A date/mm set of Seated Halves is a MONUMENTOUS undertaking.... Use your search to teach you about what problems look like....... And when you get further along, and into die varieties, you'll find yourself in a difficult position...... That is, when you've been looking for a certain variety for 2-3-5 years, and one comes along, the cleaning/ dipping, whatever/ becomes a trade-off. True, they won't slab........ but who are you collecting for? Yourself? or the slabbers ?

abitofthisabitofthat

<< <i> Some were slabbed but most I purchased from the reputable dealers who specialized in such coins - and we know who they are.
>>



There is a dealer who everyone says is a go to guy for Seated material. I was looking to pick up a lot of Seated, so I spent some time looking through his case at a recent Baltimore show. I was amazed at how many of the coins were cleaned, dipped and had issues. I ended up making a courtesy purchase of a few coins, because I was taking up space at his table for a while, but I was very disappointed in the selection. Just goes to show that their is no substitute for experience in viewing a lot of coins.

greghansen

Regardless of the problem coins, a date set is no small feat! I sounds to me like you've experienced an epiphanous moment while reviewing your coins. Your in the right spot IMO.

RedTiger

The reality is that for some series, in some grades, a good many coins have been messed with. A person can choose to lower their standards (as the grading companies often do), or pull up a chair and be extremely patient. Even slabbed coins often are questionable.

I often say I collect actual coins, not theoretical coins. When polls about original vs. messed with are posted, the overwhelming majority says they prefer original. When images of actual coins are posted, I often see "faux" original being preferred over coins that to me are more likely to actually be original. "Faux" original are coins that have been messed with but have retoned so a person can suspend disbelief.

The bottom line, don't be so hard on yourself. Don't listen to those that primarily collect theoretical coins and would only pay melt for a tough Seated coin with a mintage of 5000. They may be vocal, but in reality it might be only 5% of folks that are actually buying real coins. The hobby is one for never-ending learning. Even if a person only bought slabbed, a good many coins might still be questionable by some, and the price paid might have been multiples higher on the tougher coins.

For the novices reading along, there is no easy lesson here. The person learned to grade or at least felt comfortable grading the raw coins, bought from what he thought were top dealers in the series. The reality is that in some series, a lot of coins have been messed with, some of them are in top tier holders.

MrObvious

The VAST majority of seated coins have been cleaned and/or have some other problems. While this makes those that are "problem free" all the more desirable, and expensive, it does not render the problem coins worthless. As Coinosaurus has pointed out you could very easily be ahead of the game financially.

The "go to" guy for seated material wouldn't have much of anything in his case if he only handled no problem coins.

You've gotten some good advice in this thread already - if YOU don't like the problem coins sell them off or upgrade them with coins you like better and move forward a more knowledgeable collector.

MrObvious

RedTiger posted while I was typing and is right on the money.

pmac

The 'problem' coins that you own are not really that. Each one came from the mint in mint state and had a journey in commerce, then to a collector. As you probably know, early collectors thought they improved the quality of their coins by dipping, etc. This is part of the legacy that makes your collection unique. A complete collection of seated halves is quite an accomplishment.

InYHWHWeTrust

You have learned the same lesson I have learned. Thankfully we refine our tastes, improve and try to find a balance and avoid perfectionism with our coins. I have gotten close to despair a couple of times and just sold the whole lot of them. The boards are great teachers here, but we can tip towards over scrutiny at times. Monday AM quarterbacks and all that. Like LTC said, there are tradeoffs we have to make sometimes.

Appreciate what you have learned and start trading out with more original coins that suit your new level of collector achievement!

Thanks for being honest enough to share your experience, great thread for many of us here.

abitofthisabitofthat

Certainly, many Seated coins have been numismatically cleaned at some point. However, the OP mentions harshly cleaned and whizzed coins that were not identified as such when they were sold to him.

By all means, an extensive collection of Seated anything will require some compromise. However, harshly cleaned and whizzed coins that were sold as problem free to the uneducated is what I take issue with.

partagas

My advice to you is to is to upgrade your set. You now have more knowledge about the series you assembled. You have done a great accomplishment in completing the set.

Now take the 5 coins that bother you the most and try and find replacements. Sell off the duplicates and take what you can get for them. You will be happier as your set will have improved, and you will be surprised that people will actually love your cast offs.


I paid $50 for this cull lot and couldn't be happier. It has an 1869 P business strike in it. Very rare coin that I appreciate. My only example so far and I love it for what it is. I want to upgrade, but haven't found a coin available yet.

pennyannie

Mowgli-I would not worry to much about what this forum thinks. Most of the time they can not agree on anything. Post any coin you like (totally original and unmolested) and the post that follow will range from " i love it" to "ugly" and even a few "doctored" comments.

I am sure your coins are fine and if you bought them most likey others would like to own them also.

I was working on seated quarters for a while. ( i had around 50 different). Seated material is just hard to find period. You can find a lot of slick material. Cleaning coins was common for ever and still goes on today.

Connecticoin

There is nothing wrong with collecting cleaned or problem coins -- if you do so, you just want to pay a fair price for them given their condition (i.e. don't get duped into paying "problem free" prices for the coins from unscruplous dealers).

roadrunner

While one may get the impression here that every member only buys problems-free coins and gets them at discounts no less, it's just not the case. That's what they post openly about but the losers never get mentioned. You may find that what your are calling cleaned or even whizzed is moderate damage with the coins' retaining the majority of their problem-free value. Low mintage 1880's seated halves are worth big money even when cleaned...which the majority are. If one only waits for the most perfect problem free coin it may take forever to complete a set. And some people are doing that, but very few.

I recall my first major "unc" purchase in the 1970's was an 1837 BU reeded edge half. It was dipped but it had "full" luster. Another dealer showed me the tiny rub on the eagle's wing tip that to him made the coin only AU. I thought I had been cheated. I ended up dumping that coin almost immediately for a 30% loss because I now hated the sight of the coin. As time went on I realized that most dealers would consider such a coin BU even with the minute rub spot. In fact I see coins in holders today as high as MS65 with wing tip friction.

Spend some time getting your coins assessed by someone knowledgeable and trustworthy. Don't make the mistake of just dumping them. Find out what you have, where you want to go from here, and then take your time. The slightly better date seated halves will be hard to find undamaged and totally original. It is a worthwhile goal but will take multiples longer to complete the task. I've never been one to be tied down to completing a set. I'd rather have 30 problem free coins in the specific grade I desire than a full set of say 100 pieces of quality all over the map. And I'd buy duplicates before accepting a coin of lesser quality of one I don't own yet. Everyone sees it different. And Everyone buys mistakes.

roadrunner

Mowgli

Thank you, one and all. This is truly the best feedback I have ever gotten on these boards.

I consider the set a lesson of sorts, just like some of the scars on my body. I plan to keep them. My $600 comment had to do with their melt value but not all of them would be critically reviewed and some of them are rare like the 1866-S no motto and most of the 80's, I do not think I will lose any money when I choose to sell them - for every one I paid too much, I had a nice one appreciate more than I expected. I have already used what I learned with this set when putting together subsequent sets. My issue had to do with how the forum affected my own evaluation of my coins and you gave me enough info for me to sort this out on my own.

Again - Thanks.

RichieURich

Don't be so hard on yourself. As most of the posters have said, for the low-mintage rarities in the 1880's, a cleaned or polished coin still has considerable value. Everyone makes mistakes, it's what you do after you learn of the mistake that's important.

lkenefic

<< <i>

<< <i> Some were slabbed but most I purchased from the reputable dealers who specialized in such coins - and we know who they are.
>>



There is a dealer who everyone says is a go to guy for Seated material. I was looking to pick up a lot of Seated, so I spent some time looking through his case at a recent Baltimore show. I was amazed at how many of the coins were cleaned, dipped and had issues. I ended up making a courtesy purchase of a few coins, because I was taking up space at his table for a while, but I was very disappointed in the selection. Just goes to show that their is no substitute for experience in viewing a lot of coins. >>



I think I was at the same table. I'm on a very limited budget and can't afford to pay $150 for a "courtesy purchase"... I just moved on.