Holy Mama.. Is this a real Rainbow...
YaHa
Posts: 4,220 ✭
0
YaHa
Posts: 4,220 ✭
YaHa
Posts: 4,220 ✭
Comments
Very nice.
splish, splash I was taking a bath! Bathed in color and sweet too!
bob
<< <i>Take a look..
PrettyMama >>
It is and it isnt.......
Ok Ive owned these coins. They were sold in cardboard packs with three coins packed side by side by a mail order company. Totally legit color, but 70% of the time the ones I have submitted have been called AT. Now I'm sure this company had no idea what they were doing, so being unintentional they are NT. But most are hammered as AT. You can slip them into a holder with enough work. I have always loved these eagles and have handled most dates between 1986 and 1994. I think they either stopped the program or went defunct then.
If you like these coins comb small shops for strange plain cardboard foldover holdered eagles in 3 packs. Ask old time dealers about them and sometimes they will drag them out from the back safe.
I'll bet it doesn't sell and that is a bizarrely high reserve.
<< <i>Next bid $550?!?!?
I'll bet it doesn't sell and that is a bizarrely high reserve. >>
You bet!!!
That is as fugly as get out.
edit to say. I mean fugly reverse.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>Now I'm sure this company had no idea what they were doing, so being unintentional they are NT. >>
If they had known the holders would tone the coins, would that make them NT or AT?
What if the supplier of the holders knew they would tone the coins, but didn't tell the mail order company- would that make them NT or AT?
What if the supplier of the holders knew they would tone the coins, didn't tell the mail order company, but arranged to have the mail order company send them some- would that make them NT or AT? Or would the ones the holder company contracted for be considered different from the ones the mail order company sold direct to its customers?
So many questions...
<< <i>Next bid $550?!?!?
I'll bet it doesn't sell and that is a bizarrely high reserve. >>
Might have took them $400 to get it in a holder.
Most of them have a yellowed reverse. I have handled a few complete blue purples.
The reverse color usually looks nicer in person, and no I dont own the coin, nor made that one.
I maght have handled it before though. I used to put the word out on these color eagles on various floors years ago.
Sold mine for $40-60 raw if I remember right.........
<< <i>
<< <i>Now I'm sure this company had no idea what they were doing, so being unintentional they are NT. >>
If they had known the holders would tone the coins, would that make them NT or AT?
What if the supplier of the holders knew they would tone the coins, but didn't tell the mail order company- would that make them NT or AT?
What if the supplier of the holders knew they would tone the coins, didn't tell the mail order company, but arranged to have the mail order company send them some- would that make them NT or AT? Or would the ones the holder company contracted for be considered different from the ones the mail order company sold direct to its customers?
So many questions... >>
Youre thinking too hard! The supplier I'm sure supplied the cheapest holders ordered by a company that had to transfer calls 10 times to answer why their coins weighed more than an ounce on a postal scale. Getting a mix right in cardboard to tone coins is not as easy as it looks and it takes the right mix of sulphur/time to get that color. I doubt the contractor would bother since they could have bought the eagles direct cheaper from somewhere else.
They are truly NT. Trust me on this one. They have a particular look. I had some with spots of yellow,purple,blue on the obverse that looked like a coin doctors paint job.
These guys can get truly wild and vibrant, But I wouldn't pop over $150 for one in a 65 holder since they exist in pretty decent numbers. If its got the same general blue/purple obverse (maybe a hint of autumn red) and the yellow with some electric blue reverse its almost definitely ok.
I have picked them from dealer cull bins even!! They dont dip out well so they sometimes dip one and chuck the other 2 in the gunk bin!!
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Those 2 might have come from the modern snaplock holders. I've seen some of those cause some obverse only toning.
God this forum is a sickness for me. I do this all day for a living and haunt this place in my spare time.
<< <i>What does a coin like that tell about much, much older vintage toned coins like Morgan Dollars? That a bunch of Morgan Dollars that are beautifully toned that we think took place somewhere in the past 75-100 years, actually took place in the last 10 or 20 years right alongside coins like this Modern?
Tried that for grins and giggles. The holders seem to "burnout" after the 1st coin, and cant tone a morgan or silver reagle that way. At least in my tries.
Check out the sales for wayte raymond and other older albums. Some of those have been used to make cool colors over a period of 10-20 years or less. Again is this AT? If done intentionally yes. But that make taking a lie detector a requirement for everyone who submits toned coins.
<< <i>Youre thinking too hard! >>
No- just questioning if/how intent affects the perceived outcome.
<< <i>Again is this AT? If done intentionally yes. >>
Okay- take two identical coins stored in identical surroundings by two different people, one who knows the holder will tone the coin and one who doesn't. The two coins end up with comparable colors and toning patterns, but one is AT and one is NT based solely on the intent of the owner?
1987 is one of my years I'm collecting. Too bad it was $550...
My collections!!!! : : Photos
My new VAMmer facebook group! : Silver Dollar VAMmers
<< <i>
<< <i>Youre thinking too hard! >>
No- just questioning if/how intent affects the perceived outcome.
<< <i>Again is this AT? If done intentionally yes. >>
Okay- take two identical coins stored in identical surroundings by two different people, one who knows the holder will tone the coin and one who doesn't. The two coins end up with comparable colors and toning patterns, but one is AT and one is NT based solely on the intent of the owner? >>
Tough questions. If someone does it with the intent then in the purest form it is AT. Will the tpgs be able to tell original envelope toning from the 50's and some done in the 80's if stored in the right conditions (assuming the guy in the 80's is the knowing party). Probably not unless the coins have an underlying problem the toning is being used to hide.
But I would guarantee that unless the owners of the holder manufacturing company were most devious & byzantine in their plotting these coins are NT. These eagles are ok.
The holder manufacturers have nothing to gain in doing this, and again getting the right combo of sulphur in the cardboard to come out with this color is tough.
Spend a few weekends playing with sulphur in different forms with different materials,heat,moisture, and time of exposure and you'll see how truly difficult it is to get nice toning. The natural looking stuff even if done in an old & accepted sulphur releasing holder takes years usually. But the people with the knowledge & patience to do this cant put a whole lot of dent in the pop of nT coins (I hope!). In the end a NT appearing coin (done intentionally) that looks like truly NT coins is indistinguishable from its brethren, but no one will ever know which is which. So its either something that makes you not touch toned coins (in which case you will be buying dipped blast white coins if you collect 19th century stuff which is altered also), or you accept the fact and dont let it eat at you too much. I try not to be too cryptic, but I try to express myself as dead honest as I can.
It seems to me that PCGS MS 65 is a very low grade as well.
If I was inclined to pay big money for "easily toned" silver eagles I would expect the grade to be at least 67 or higher.
Don't get me wrong, I like toned eagles myself... but there is a point where the money being asked is just rediculous.
PCGS graded this one for me MS 67
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
<< <i>Looks like snaplock holder toning. The display ones with a little cardboard around the edges. They get that pretty electric blue purple look. I love toned coins and agree 65 seems a little low for the one at auction. I think maybe they couldnt tell what was under the toning or it may have had a lot of hits like I've seen on the mailorder coins. They didnt seem to get a lot of care in handling during packaging. >>
That's exactly where my 1996 came from.
The seller on ebay mentioned that it was "tarnished" and possibly in need of a cleaning.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
While I think that his actions are patently wrong, I wasn't about to attack him personally for it. Coin show participants and dealers are known for carrying guns at shows, and the last thing I'd want is to be killed in the parking lot by some low-life coin doctor.
<< <i>But. The one in question is NOT a doctored coin. If its the person Im thinking of I have met him and his had a lot of wild yellow on them. >>
it may be the same person, although remember he openly admits to having a ton of artifically toned ASEs with PCGS; he stated his colors can range from vibrant, to subtle, according to how the dealers "order" them from him.
People have a hard time telling NT from AT on 100+ coins, these, made from what 1986 on, toned like this naturally?
<< <i>Silver eagles are know to tone easily. I do not care for that particular one, but part of that might be Teletrades awful images.
It seems to me that PCGS MS 65 is a very low grade as well.
If I was inclined to pay big money for "easily toned" silver eagles I would expect the grade to be at least 67 or higher.
Don't get me wrong, I like toned eagles myself... but there is a point where the money being asked is just rediculous.
PCGS graded this one for me MS 67
Nice, crisp image.
Me likey.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>Is this a real Rainbow >>
Looks like another hunk of Bullion with circus colors to me.
<< <i>Theres been maybe 5 ASE's Ive seen that havent disgusted me completely. Im sorry, but 99.9% of these look like AT crap to me.
People have a hard time telling NT from AT on 100+ coins, these, made from what 1986 on, toned like this naturally?
Yes they did.
Ill have to agree, to disagree.
Im not saying all of them are AT, but there is no way most of these dont get helper along. The OP coin looks like crap!
They were in an after market plastic/cardboard holder
both were from PCI holders, I cracked them and submitted
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
3rd & 4th look nt and are from some other type of holder.
Nice coins
<< <i>What does a coin like that tell about much, much older vintage toned coins like Morgan Dollars? That a bunch of Morgan Dollars that are beautifully toned that we think took place somewhere in the past 75-100 years, actually took place in the last 10 or 20 years right alongside coins like this Modern?
That's why the AT/NT debate is pointless to me. Tell me how old the toning is, or likely is, and that is much more useful information than a person's opinion. The processes are very similar for the two, one is accelerated. The end results are near impossible to separate, except for some specific toning patterns that the lab guys haven't quite figured out yet. Mostly it is toning fashion rather than AT/NT, with the ever shifting standards of what is acceptable to the market. I believe a lot of Morgans and other old classic coins have been toned during the time that newer coin was done. A lot of them are in top tier holders and being sold for good money. The docs and their dealer friends get paid, the world keeps turning.
<< <i>Why pay that kind of money when you can make your own. After all, it is just the degraded surface that attracts all the attention. Just make one, and enjoy it. So simple too... Cheers, RickO >>
RickO you are correct.. I wish I knew how to do it.. It's crazy what those colorful coins get in price..
On Teletrade????????????????????
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
<< <i>For whatever it's worth, PCGS MS68:
That's Purrty...