This coin is being returned to me because...
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
it is "no where near AU" and "there are carved initials in the right obverse field."
I disagree.
If this piece isn't satisfying as a perfect AU, I don't know what is. The devices are drenched in mint frost only slightly abraded on the high points.
Comments welcome.
I disagree.
If this piece isn't satisfying as a perfect AU, I don't know what is. The devices are drenched in mint frost only slightly abraded on the high points.
Comments welcome.
0
Comments
Ken
<< <i>I see no luster at all. Is there luster?
Ken >>
It's got a touch of PL flash and some satin cartwheel under the crust. Scans don't show luster well.
i like the coin. i am having a hard time judging the remaining luster
in the pics but it has nice eye appeal. i tend to grade strictly now
days and like it as an xf45 but i realize i am stricter then most
everyone else so therefore it is an easy AU.
www.brunkauctions.com
in the pics but it has nice eye appeal. i tend to grade strictly now
days and like it as an xf45 but i realize i am stricter then most
everyone else so therefore it is an easy AU."
FC are you caving in to gradeflation?
If the coin does not have the right amount of luster it is XF45. I like the coin also but the luster would play a big part with this coin.
Ken
AL
PS and is that a scratch on the right obverse? Is that what the buyer was talking about?
edited to add, it is a beautiful coin with serious amount of detail
<< <i>"i like the coin. i am having a hard time judging the remaining luster
in the pics but it has nice eye appeal. i tend to grade strictly now
days and like it as an xf45 but i realize i am stricter then most
everyone else so therefore it is an easy AU."
FC are you caving in to gradeflation?
If the coin does not have the right amount of luster it is XF45. I like the coin also but the luster would play a big part with this coin.
Ken >>
well the coin has light wear. the easiest place to see this light wear
is on the head of liberty. i think luster is very very important in figuring
out the grade of the coin and what i can see makes me think a very
nice xf45.
But goldeneye has it in hand. If he can rotate the coin and see almost
a full ring of luster around the stars and partly into the fields.. it jumps right
up to AU... which grade of AU is hard to tell based on the pics in my
opinion. It is just so hard to tell on a nice old coin which has not been
skinned alive to remove the crust/toning.
Maybe the buyer was expecting AU58 and got disappointed. I still
cannot see the carved initials though.
I saw when you posted this coin on the BST, and I l ike it, but honestly felt that is was a xf-45.
I do see something now that you posted in the field, but cant tell what it is??
Jim
Yogi Berra
And for those that think it's XF45 or something, it looks better than the AU photo in my 1970's vintage photograde.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>"there are carved initials in the right obverse field." where? >>
I see something below the flag but I can't read any initials.
<< <i>
<< <i>"there are carved initials in the right obverse field." where? >>
I see something below the flag but I can't read any initials.
flag?
read on sir...
"The Phrygian cap is a soft, red, conical cap with the top pulled
forward, worn in antiquity by the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of
central Anatolia. In artistic representations it signifies freedom and
the pursuit of liberty — perhaps by a confusion with the pileus, the
manumitted slave's felt cap of ancient Rome — and is sometimes
called a liberty cap."
The initials are directly in the field to the right of the arm...
Drenched with Mint frost? I told Will very clearly- Send the coin in to PCGS and if it comes back graded AU anything I will pay for all the shipping and remunerate him for his trouble-
the right rims from 7 to 9 appear to be filed or ground down- there is a definitive ledge there, there is a rim ding- Coming off of her foot going into the final star there is a scratch-
You know Will- You do not know me but I assure you- I know what I am doing when it comes to looking at CC coins and quite frankly seated liberty coins- This coins is not AU and IMHO it is not going to grade- Clearly under a loupe it is damaged-
Now that I look closer at the coin look at the obverse rims you can actually see file or tooling marks on the rims- most likely rubbing out rim dings...
But alas... I just want my money back... For some it will meet the quality they are looking for... For me it does not. I am sorry that this offends you.
John
<< <i>I remember this from the BST, too, and I had interpreted the images as being from a scanner. If so, then the coin may actually have decent luster mixed in with the toning. >>
correct, these are scans.
<< <i>"The Phrygian cap is a soft, red, conical cap with the top pulled
forward, worn in antiquity by the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of
central Anatolia. In artistic representations it signifies freedom and
the pursuit of liberty — perhaps by a confusion with the pileus, the
manumitted slave's felt cap of ancient Rome — and is sometimes
called a liberty cap." >>
Now I'm wondering what the pole is
This is fair. Will it happen? If so I would be very interested with the results.
Ken
<< <i>I am returning the coin- in the right obverse field under a 5X loupe there are very clearly initials carved into this coin, Above the right shoulder in the fields there is a scratch that is a continuation from the scratch-
The initials are directly in the field to the right of the arm...
Drenched with Mint frost? I told Will very clearly- Send the coin in to PCGS and if it comes back graded AU anything I will pay for all the shipping and remunerate him for his trouble-
the right rims from 7 to 9 appear to be filed or ground down- there is a definitive ledge there, there is a rim ding- Coming off of her foot going into the final star there is a scratch-
You know Will- You do not know me but I assure you- I know what I am doing when it comes to looking at CC coins and quite frankly seated liberty coins- This coins is not AU and IMHO it is not going to grade- Clearly under a loupe it is damaged-
Now that I look closer at the coin look at the obverse rims you can actually see file or tooling marks on the rims- most likely rubbing out rim dings...
But alas... I just want my money back... For some it will meet the quality they are looking for... For me it does not. I am sorry that this offends you.
John >>
No hard feelings.
It'll probably be sold at ANA, but if not I'll send it off to PCGS and let you know the result.
<< <i>what is your return policy? >>
100% refund. He covers the cost of shipping it back to me, but I cover the cost of shipping it to him.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>"I told Will very clearly- Send the coin in to PCGS and if it comes back graded AU anything I will pay for all the shipping and remunerate him for his trouble- "
This is fair. Will it happen? If so I would be very interested with the results.
Ken >>
<< <i>You fellas should have staged a fight. This thread is running out of steam. >>
Adult behavior = lack of drama.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>he devices are drenched in mint frost only slightly abraded on the high points >>
I agree yours looks AU
Mine is crusty and colorfull with lots of frost remaining, and its a compass point back if you look closely
AU50 would really be streetching the limits. Should be a $ 200-$ 250 coin .
Lewis
Will is in the right here, this isnt any 10 dollar indian in 66. LOL
(Inside joke)
I guess AR
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"there are carved initials in the right obverse field." where? >>
I see something below the flag but I can't read any initials.
flag?
read on sir...
"The Phrygian cap is a soft, red, conical cap with the top pulled
forward, worn in antiquity by the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of
central Anatolia. In artistic representations it signifies freedom and
the pursuit of liberty — perhaps by a confusion with the pileus, the
manumitted slave's felt cap of ancient Rome — and is sometimes
called a liberty cap."
That must be where Santa Claus got his hats!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>"The Phrygian cap is a soft, red, conical cap with the top pulled
forward, worn in antiquity by the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of
central Anatolia. In artistic representations it signifies freedom and
the pursuit of liberty — perhaps by a confusion with the pileus, the
manumitted slave's felt cap of ancient Rome — and is sometimes
called a liberty cap." >>
Now I'm wondering what the pole is
You can read about the Liberty Pole here - it was an important symbol of the independence movement:
Liberty Pole - Wikipedia
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
"The Phrygian cap is a soft, red, conical cap with the top pulled
forward, worn in antiquity by the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of
central Anatolia. In artistic representations it signifies freedom and
the pursuit of liberty — perhaps by a confusion with the pileus, the
manumitted slave's felt cap of ancient Rome — and is sometimes
called a liberty cap."
you can also have a Phrygian cap on your gallbladder
.....why isn't it in a PCGS slab already ? ........as if I didn't know
if your going to tout it as a perfect AU specimen , and publicly say so, then why not have it slabbed and have him pay the cost ?
He's being more then fair - and you say it will sell raw and if not you might send it to PCGS ..........what kind of response to him is that ?
I had a bozo ship me a 1914-S Quarter raw he insisted was at least V.F ; same kind of deal : I paid for slabbing and it came back
PCGS VG-10 ...........you think the yerkoff would have at least refunded me the grading fee's .......
I say put your money where your mouth is
If someone wants a slabbed coin, then they should BUY a slabbed coin,not a raw one... rather than trying to play "let's make a deal-if it slabs..." after the fact. JMHO
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I wouldn't bet on that. I've seen Seated Lib pieces that don't touch this one sitting in AU slabs so I would certainly challenge that "no chance" statement.
My original statement still stands... if you want a slabbed coin, buy a slabbed coin; don't buy a raw one and play what-if games with the seller as to whether it will slab. If you buy raw and don't like it, just send it back and move on.
The fact that the seller didn't slab it means nothing as to quality etc., I look at it as meaning that it's his coin and he can sell it in the manner he sees fit. Too many people have an ebay-esque mentality that holds "if it's raw then it must be a problem coin or an overgrade". Hardly true.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Nice '49 philly.
<< <i>.....Because the buyer is quite confident the coin has no chance of being slabbed AU
I wouldn't bet on that. I've seen Seated Lib pieces that don't touch this one sitting in AU slabs so I would certainly challenge that "no chance" statement.
My original statement still stands... if you want a slabbed coin, buy a slabbed coin; don't buy a raw one and play what-if games with the seller as to whether it will slab. If you buy raw and don't like it, just send it back and move on.
The fact that the seller didn't slab it means nothing as to quality etc., I look at it as meaning that it's his coin and he can sell it in the manner he sees fit. Too many people have an ebay-esque mentality that holds "if it's raw then it must be a problem coin or an overgrade". Hardly true. >>
I'll give you that -you make a sound argument
An old business axiom worth remembering, "Customers are not people to argue or match wits with. Nobody ever won an argument with a customer."
How true. Stuff like this routinely shows up in obscure auctions and estate sales where it may have sat for years tucked away and the the fact the owner never had it slabbed has nothing to do with problems, it just has never been in the hands of someone who desired to entomb his coins in plastic.
<< <i>it is "no where near AU" and "there are carved initials in the right obverse field."
I disagree.
If this piece isn't satisfying as a perfect AU, I don't know what is. The devices are drenched in mint frost only slightly abraded on the high points.
Comments welcome. >>
All the more reason not to ever offer a "reason" for returning a coin outside of "It's not for me".
Some of the best numismatic advice I ever got....Mike