Need advice.

mumu

I bought a very nice 1805 draped bust half in an older ICG EF 40 holder on the BST here. The coin has tremendous eye appeal, toning and luster. However, there is what was described by the seller as a toning mark across the face which was desrbed to him as made by a rubber band, which if in fact were toning, was not enough to ruin the coin IMO as it still has better eye appeal than any other draped half ive seen sold in the 25-au55 range. Anyway, under a loupe, it is hard to tell for sure whether it is toning or damage, and I do not have a microscope to look into it. I assumed that the seller knew more than I and accepted it as such. I have had the coin now close to 2 months. I had a dealer look at it thru a scope and he says it is damage that appears to have been made by some kind of metal. If it is in fact grooves made by metal, it would probably deem the coin ungradeable by PCGS or NGC, but made it thru ICG. I will try and get pictures up but here is the sellers pic for now. hard to tell from this pic but its a start. So what do I do?

slinc

From that pic it really looks like damage but minus that it's a pretty awesome coin.

tahoe98

.....NICE COIN! i don't know if that can be 'made whole' again at NCS or some other entity that restores coins.

....these guys

erwindoc

Since you have had it for 2 months, I think it would be safe to say that you are stuck with it. If you didnt like it at first, then most likely the seller would have accepted it back. If I were you and you really liked the coin, I would leave it in the holder, like they say, buy the coin not the holder. If you wanted to try to get it into a better holder, then maybe NCS then NGC would accept it. Otherwise, it could be a PCGS genuine holder if there is damage to the coin.

mumu

Here is the reverse as well to be thorough. I agree the coin is awesome and I love it. But if it is damage, what do I do? I paid EF40 money for it.

mumu

I want to emphasize that it is not a matter of liking the coin. I LOVE the coin. And it is not a matter of getting it into a PCGS holder. I have no problem leaving it in the ICG holder. It is a matter of whether or not what was described as toning, is in fact damage. It is hard to tell inside of the slab with a loupe becaus eyou cannot angle the coin without the slab refelcting light. And i am not alluding to the seller knowingly selling a damaged coin nor him being to blame. I jsut want to figure out what to do to confirm the status of the potential damage and whether ICG would make good on their guarantee in this type of situation or what.

shottaker

<< <i>I want to emphasize that it is not a matter of liking the coin. I LOVE the coin. And it is not a matter of getting it into a PCGS holder. I have no problem leaving it in the ICG holder. It is a matter of whether or not what was described as toning, is in fact damage. It is hard to tell inside of the slab with a loupe becaus eyou cannot angle the coin without the slab refelcting light. And i am not alluding to the seller knowingly selling a damaged coin nor him being to blame. I jsut want to figure out what to do to confirm the status of the potential damage and whether ICG would make good on their guarantee in this type of situation or what. >>



The cheek looks like strike through. If so its a mint made error and not damage so would cross. The other streaks could be rubber band toning, but usually that runs all the way across the coin.

ICG hasnt answered the phone for me lately so I dont know their status. Havent tried this week, but last and the week before I left messages o no avail and always got the answering machine during business hours.

MikeInFL

<< <i>So what do I do? >>



If it bothered me that much, I would sell it and find one I like better.

mumu

I dont think it is a strike thru because it looks carved into the metal. Is there anything to look for if it is a strikethru? Wouldnt a strike thru come out away form teh planchet on that side? I will try and get better pictures but without a macro lens and thru the slab will be difficult. I would be OK with a strike thru obviously.

MikeInFL

<< <i> It is a matter of whether or not what was described as toning, is in fact damage. >>

Next time ignore the seller's words. They are nothing but noise in the vast majority of instances.


I jsut want to figure out what to do to confirm the status of the potential damage and whether ICG would make good on their guarantee in this type of situation or what. >>

You can certainly investigate your options with ICG, but I think the best course of action would be to just sell the coin, as per my prior post.

291fifth

From your photo, it also appears to be cleaned and has retoned, probably in an album.

You have waited too long to do a return. You'll just have to live with it.

GrumpyEd

From the pics I can't say for sure but I'm not convinced it's damage, maybe a struck through or even lamination on the cheek.

??

Steve27

"I have had the coin now close to 2 months."

The only recourse you have after two months is to sell it and find another or keep it.

pheh

Gotta say I'd be stunned if ICG didn't Details grade it and note it if it is in fact damage. I'm leaning toward toning. or strike-through (though I'd expect them to mention the latter).

yellowkid

<< <i>"I have had the coin now close to 2 months."

The only recourse you have after two months is to sell it and find another or keep it. >>

mumu

<< <i>From your photo, it also appears to be cleaned and has retoned, probably in an album.

You have waited too long to do a return. You'll just have to live with it. >>



It is a bit blown out in the pics. Does not look cleaned in hand. I think the contrast and quality in the pic make it look that way. I had that concern at first but in hand the base color under the toning looks undipped/uncleaned. It's not blast white inside the toning as the pictures would make you think.

mumu

I am not really looking to hear that the seller should take it back after 2 months. He has already offered back 10% which I am not going to take. But I wouldnt want to sell it if it is damaged, just to push it out onto someone else. Id like to get more of an idea of how to confirm what it is in fact. Maybe I should have waited to have better pictures before posting in an attempt to figure it out. Got kinda antsy after hearing it might be deep scratches. Anyone know what to look for on these if it is a strike thru? Or maybe have pictures of another example? Should the mark on the cheek look like the corresponding area on the reverse if it is a strike thru?

Barndog

want an in-hand opinion from three experts? Send it for crossover to PCGS or NGC (or to both)

commoncents05

I would guess lamination based on the photos.

-Paul

lathmach

Looks like a rubber band mark.

Ray

mumu

<< <i>I would guess lamination based on the photos.

-Paul >>



Let me describe what it looks like under the loupe and scope, which may help. Lets call the shape in question a stretched out football or balloon. The insude portion of the toned balloon looks fine, then the edges around the ballon look like they are indented into the silver. As if someone stamped that ballon/football shape into it. Those lines around the ballon are also darker as you can see in teh pics. The question is whether I am really seeing that indentation or not. Again angling the slab to look thru the loupe is hard and in the microscope you can only see directly down onto them. Cracking the coin out would answer that question, but would a strike thru look like this? WOuld the surrounding or framing edges of the balloon area drop into the silver like a stamo if thats what it is?

lathmach

Wait, raise up the eyepiece of the microscope. Way up.
Then hold the slab in your hands and move it any way you want, tilt it etc.
Just move it til it focuses good.

Ray

JCMhouston

I really can't tell fromt he pic if it is damage or not. But it's a pretty enough coin I would put it in a Genuine or NCS holder. As far as the money paid I think you just have to eat this one if there is a loss, 2 months is way to much time to return something. And as you mentioned you don't know if it is damage or not, I'd send it in, it's more salable in a Genuine holder than as is.

DieClash

<< <i>I would guess lamination based on the photos.

-Paul >>



If it's a planchet flaw, I don't believe that it will cross.

Cameonut

I know what I would do in this case.

I would return it to the dealer at 10% back and chalk it up to experience and part of my numismatic education. Perhaps he will cut you a better deal.

As already stated, after 2 months you don't have many options. I couldn't live with that coin in the long term - the obverse just bothers me.