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Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain this to me?
Brewmaster
Posts: 26
How can a copper(in this case a 1914-D Lincoln Cent) be listed in the pop report as being MSRD in grades like G3, G4, VG8 and VG10...just to name a few? Thanks in advance.
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There's more than a few RED 22 No D Lincolns floating around in grades below MS. I had one that was VG10RD a while back.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
Considering the millions of coins graded, they are going to miss one occasionally. Shag
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I'm sure you are right for the vast majority.
ultra rare, but hundreds graded in 64,65,66 Red. Shag
Trust me. There are not hundreds of the 70-S LD DDO.
correct population? I remember seeing quite a few 64rds in the Heritage Archives. Shag
<< <i>I believe it was mozeppa on this Board who had a 70-S Lg. Date DDO in AU58 that was designated as RD. Coin was definitely brown in color.
Considering the millions of coins graded, they are going to miss one occasionally. Shag >>
With all due respect I have to totally disagree with you here. I could care less if they grade 10 or 10 million coins..."mistakes" like this should never leave their premisis, especially considering how they boast in their little video on the main page that every coin goes through numerous checks and double checks throughout the grading process. Furthermore, missing "one"....maybe, but it seems there are a lot more than that out there! A great example that happened to me just recently is when I sent in a 1909-s VDB....it came back to as a 1909 VDB!!!!! The coin was correct in the holder, but it was listed IN THAT SAME holder incorrectly. Granted, they fixed it for me with little hassle, but come on, that should have never happened in the first place.
Considering the millions of coins graded, they are going to miss one occasionally. Shag >>
<< <i>With all due respect I have to totally disagree with you here. I could care less if they grade 10 or 10 million coins..."mistakes" like this should never leave their premisis, especially considering how they boast in their little video on the main page that every coin goes through numerous checks and double checks throughout the grading process. Furthermore, missing "one"....maybe, but it seems there are a lot more than that out there! A great example that happened to me just recently is when I sent in a 1909-s VDB....it came back to as a 1909 VDB!!!!! The coin was correct in the holder, but it was listed IN THAT SAME holder incorrectly. Granted, they fixed it for me with little hassle, but come on, that should have never happened in the first place. >>
My take is that,
Until you actually work at PCGS and fully understand how coins actually flow through the system,
you really should try to understand that "mistakes" do happen and they happen all the time. Some big, some little, some major and some minor. They just happen.
As a collector, errors should be reported and corrected for the population reports.
These errors should also be reported so that PCGS can launch their own internal investigations to figure out where the "coin grading process" failed so that it can be corrected.
Their business is based upon the trust and integrity they have built up as a grading service. Unfortunately, there are a lot of collectors out there that like to keep their own personal "mechanical" error collections which kinda screws everything up. My advice is that if you have a mechanical error of any type then send it back so that it can get corrected. Otherwise, don't complain.
I believe that PCGS Authorized Dealers are REQUIRED to do the above in order to keep in good standing as a PCGS Authorized Dealer.
Its a two way street folks.
As a collector, I find it difficult to conceive of a VG10RD Lincoln and that, in my mind, would be a major mistake! But, I'm kinda glad that PCGS doesn't go into the database and simply change some designation based upon a single individuals opinion or the "How could this have possibly happened?" standpoint.
As for an AU58RD, I don't find this to be too unbelievable since the line between AU58 and MS62 is often blurred.
Obvious BN coins in RD holders are not out of the realm of possiblity either given the relative unstability of copper. I have an MS65RD that simply isn't as red as it was when it was graded back in the early 90's and would certainly draw some debate.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>My take is that,
Until you actually work at PCGS and fully understand how coins actually flow through the system,
you really should try to understand that "mistakes" do happen abd they happen all the time. Some big, some little, some major and some minor. They just happen.
*****Well there ya go folks...."They just happen". I'm glad you are not my surgeon! I take it from your statement that you work for PCGS? Well enlighten us as to how things like this "happen all the time"? You make it sound that this margin of error is acceptable? Keep in mind that I'm not arguing the worn out debate if a coin is under or over graded. When it comes down to it that is simply an "expert's" opinion...or as PCGS claims, 2 "experts" must agree on the grade or it renters the grading process(yeah, right!). What I'm arguing here is how does an encapsulated coin not match the printed information directly above it??? They should hire my 10 year old nephew to do this check prior to shipping...hell, a trained chimp can do that job! *****
As a collector, errors should be reported and corrected for the population reports.
These errors should also be reported so that PCGS can launch their own internal investigations to figure out where the "coin grading process" failed so that it can be corrected.
Their business is based upon the trust and integrity they have built up as a grading service. Unfortunately, there are a lot of collectors out there that like to keep their own personal "mechanical" error collections which kinda screws everything up. My advice is that if you have a mechanical error of any type then send it back so that it can get corrected. Otherwise, don't complain.
*****I did in fact send my s-vdb back to get it corrected, BUT I still have every right to complain. The people that choose for one reason or another not to send back are what degrades the company's good(yet quickly fading) standing and PCGS has no one to blame except for themselves and their substandard quality control. *****
I believe that PCGS Authorized Dealers are REQUIRED to do the above in order to keep in good standing as a PCGS Authorized Dealer.
Its a two way street folks.
As a collector, I find it difficult to conceive of a VG10RD Lincoln and that, in my mind, would be a major mistake! But, I'm kinda glad that PCGS doesn't go into the database and simply change some designation based upon a single individuals opinion or the "How could this have possibly happened?" standpoint.
*****VG10RD is not an opinion sir, it is nonsense, especially considering the good money spent by consumers who should not expect perfection, but should expect adequate QC so something this redicolus does not leave the PCGS establishment.*****
As for an AU58RD, I don't find this to be too unbelievable since the line between AU58 and MS62 is often blurred.
Obvious BN coins in RD holders are not out of the realm of possiblity either given the relative unstability of copper. I have an MS65RD that simply isn't as red as it was when it was graded back in the early 90's and would certainly draw some debate. >>
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***** Again, I am NOT arguing grades here. Yes, copper tends to be more unstable than most metals and I can completely understand if an MS64RD graded 10 years ago looks more like a RB or even BN at this point, but for a 1914d to go through the entire PCGS grading system that they hang their hat on as the "best in the business" and to end up a AG3RD is shameful, disturbing and IMO completely unacceptable.*****
<< <i>
<< <i>I said something that amused you? If so, please fill us all in. >>
Just thought it was funny that you were ragging on our host already (I think it was post number#2). Most of us wait until at least post number
10. >>
LOL! Now that was funny! It is true I've just started posting here, but trust me, it has been a LONG time coming. I'm simply sick and tired of the stuff I see going on here with "the best 3rd party grader in the business". I've kept quite and would simply patrol this message board for years, but the time has come for me to vent. Customer service, QC and public relations are going down the tubes fast and it is a shame.
<< <i>***** Again, I am NOT arguing grades here. Yes, copper tends to be more unstable than most metals and I can completely understand if an MS64RD graded 10 years ago looks more like a RB or even BN at this point, but for a 1914d to go through the entire PCGS grading system that they hang their hat on as the "best in the business" and to end up a AG3RD is shameful, disturbing and IMO completely unacceptable.***** >>
<< <i>*****Well there ya go folks...."They just happen". I'm glad you are not my surgeon! I take it from your statement that you work for PCGS? Well enlighten us as to how things like this "happen all the time"? You make it sound that this margin of error is acceptable? Keep in mind that I'm not arguing the worn out debate if a coin is under or over graded. When it comes down to it that is simply an "expert's" opinion...or as PCGS claims, 2 "experts" must agree on the grade or it renters the grading process(yeah, right!). What I'm arguing here is how does an encapsulated coin not match the printed information directly above it??? They should hire my 10 year old nephew to do this check prior to shipping...hell, a trained chimp can do that job! ***** >>
As for me working for PCGS, I could only wish. My position is that I am old enough and have enough life's experience under my belt to understand the mistakes do "just" happen! The mistakes made in surgery happen as well. Many a patient has recovered from abdominal surgery and after suffering prolonged chronic pain after surgery, it's discovered that a scalpel or hemostat "somehow" got left behind! Mistakes Happen!
Mistakes happen! Graders assign grades but then who prints out the labels and from what source and exactly when does all this get rolled into the database? I know that cert numbers for coins graded on Wednesday are not available until Thursday. You get "Cert Number invalid for Display" when you try to pull them up.
Somewhere in this frazzled mess, an error can occur.
The name is LEE!
FWIW, try to lighten up. If you have issues you'll find Don Willis
quite approachable and always ready and willing to help you.
If you continue at this rate it won't be long before this happens.
<< <i>
<< <i>***** Again, I am NOT arguing grades here. Yes, copper tends to be more unstable than most metals and I can completely understand if an MS64RD graded 10 years ago looks more like a RB or even BN at this point, but for a 1914d to go through the entire PCGS grading system that they hang their hat on as the "best in the business" and to end up a AG3RD is shameful, disturbing and IMO completely unacceptable.***** >>
<< <i>*****Well there ya go folks...."They just happen". I'm glad you are not my surgeon! I take it from your statement that you work for PCGS? Well enlighten us as to how things like this "happen all the time"? You make it sound that this margin of error is acceptable? Keep in mind that I'm not arguing the worn out debate if a coin is under or over graded. When it comes down to it that is simply an "expert's" opinion...or as PCGS claims, 2 "experts" must agree on the grade or it renters the grading process(yeah, right!). What I'm arguing here is how does an encapsulated coin not match the printed information directly above it??? They should hire my 10 year old nephew to do this check prior to shipping...hell, a trained chimp can do that job! ***** >>
As for me working for PCGS, I could only wish. My position is that I am old enough and have enough life's experience under my belt to understand the mistakes do "just" happen! The mistakes made in surgery happen as well. Many a patient has recovered from abdominal surgery and after suffering prolonged chronic pain after surgery, it's discovered that a scalpel or hemostat "somehow" got left behind! Mistakes Happen!
Mistakes happen! Graders assign grades but then who prints out the labels and from what source and exactly when does all this get rolled into the database? I know that cert numbers for coins graded on Wednesday are not available until Thrusday. You get "Cert Number invalid for Display" when you try to pull them up.
Somewhere in this frazzled mess, an error can occur. >>
Lee,
I guess you and I have two different mind sets here. I'm not high and mighty enough to say who's view is better...to each their own, but I am gald that a I do not have the "mistakes happen and there is nothing that can be done about it" attitude. I may be coming off as a wanna be perfectionist and that is not the case. I agree with you that mistakes do happen, but by your own admission they happen frequently at PCGS and that is unacceptable. The pictures you posted do your argument more damage than good. Again, my 10 yr old nephew could identify these "mistakes" immediately! I realize these examples are not the grader's fault, but it still falls under the umbrella of PCGS. Train your data entry personel better. Hire packing/shipping employees that have a higher level of attention to detail and if need be, cut the dead weight! This is a business folks and it should be run like one. Lastly, you speak of this "frazzled mess" that is coin grading....are you serious!?!? Balancing the national budget is a frazzled mess. Other than the actual grading of the coin itself, this process is pretty straight forward....or should be if handled correctly. Let's see, a coin(s) is received at PCGS. According to the video, it is 1st checked at that point for accuracy... submission #, correct coin, personal info, etc. That is check #1. It then goes to the grader. I would have to assume that in addition to actually grading the coin, the grader will make sure his paperwork matches the coin in hand...that's check #2. Off it goes to be encapsulated...again, another point where the coin is(or should be) verified to match all existing documentation....check #3. Then off to data entry...check #4. Here is where I'm astonished that the coin examples you posted were not discovered to be HUGE QC issues. And before anyone follows up to this posting and says, "well, those folks are just data entry personell, not coin experts" save your breath. A reasonable individual should expect the drive-thru teenager at Mc Donald's to be able to look at an order and say to themselves, "yup, that's french fries and not onion rings...the order is right". If they feel that data entry is their only job, train, repremand or terminate them. I'm sure there are plenty of people in this economy that would love to take their job! Then the coin(s) goes on to the shipping department. Check #5. Same argument here. If you have a "9-5'er" that feels that packing/shipping is their only job....get new personel! You are saying that despite this series of checks and balances that these types of errors in the quantities we see are acceptable?
<< <i>Welcome to the boards Brewmaster.
FWIW, try to lighten up. If you have issues you'll find Don Willis
quite approachable and always ready and willing to help you.
If you continue at this rate it won't be long before this happens.
You're right Boom. It's no big deal. I need to lighten up. Who cares about QC and accuracy. When it boils down to it, we are just talking stupid ole coins here and who really cares about accuracy when you send your stupid ole coins out to a company that specialize in grading coins for authenticity and condition. Assuming Mr. Willis is approachable on this matter, he would not be helping ME. He would be helping himself and the company he works for which in turn would help all of us.
<< <i>Looks like someone has an axe to grind:
I'm sorry, do you even know me? Trust me sir, I'm a nobody in the world of coin collecting. I'm a hobbyist and NOT a dealer. Everyone here most likely has 1 coin worth my entire collection! I personally know no one at PCGS. What I do know is ever since I chose to start submitting to them a few years back I've seen things 1st hand and/or posted by forum members that indicate to me this company is run more like a "2nd tier" coin grading outfit. Quite the contrary to axe grinding...I hope my comments spark a change in the right direction. I feel I'm saying things here that others are afraid to say as thier professional coin business may suffer if they speak up against the powers that be. I truly hope PCGS rights the ship soon. If they don't there are other companies out there that will claim the "first spot" away from them. Companies that in hindsight I wish I would have started grading my modest Lincoln collection with in the 1st place....now there is a true MISTAKE for you. Much more acceptable than looking at a picture of Martin Van Buren and calling him James Monroe!
<< <i>Lee,
I guess you and I have two different mind sets here. I'm not high and mighty enough to say who's view is better...to each their own, but I am gald that a I do not have the "mistakes happen and there is nothing that can be done about it" attitude. I may be coming off as a wanna be perfectionist and that is not the case. I agree with you that mistakes do happen, but by your own admission they happen frequently at PCGS and that is unacceptable. The pictures you posted do your argument more damage than good. Again, my 10 yr old nephew could identify these "mistakes" immediately! I realize these examples are not the grader's fault, but it still falls under the umbrella of PCGS. Train your data entry personel better. Hire packing/shipping employees that have a higher level of attention to detail and if need be, cut the dead weight! This is a business folks and it should be run like one. Lastly, you speak of this "frazzled mess" that is coin grading....are you serious!?!? Balancing the national budget is a frazzled mess. Other than the actual grading of the coin itself, this process is pretty straight forward....or should be if handled correctly. Let's see, a coin(s) is received at PCGS. According to the video, it is 1st checked at that point for accuracy... submission #, correct coin, personal info, etc. That is check #1. It then goes to the grader. I would have to assume that in addition to actually grading the coin, the grader will make sure his paperwork matches the coin in hand...that's check #2. Off it goes to be encapsulated...again, another point where the coin is(or should be) verified to match all existing documentation....check #3. Then off to data entry...check #4. Here is where I'm astonished that the coin examples you posted were not discovered to be HUGE QC issues. And before anyone follows up to this posting and says, "well, those folks are just data entry personell, not coin experts" save your breath. A reasonable individual should expect the drive-thru teenager at Mc Donald's to be able to look at an order and say to themselves, "yup, that's french fries and not onion rings...the order is right". If they feel that data entry is their only job, train, repremand or terminate them. I'm sure there are plenty of people in this economy that would love to take their job! Then the coin(s) goes on to the shipping department. Check #5. Same argument here. If you have a "9-5'er" that feels that packing/shipping is their only job....get new personel! You are saying that despite this series of checks and balances that these types of errors in the quantities we see are acceptable? >>
You do realize that PCGS handles hundreds of thousands of coins each month? A volume handling of coins is probably not anywhere near what you have described and surely you must realize this? If you don't, then I guess I can understand your dreamy eyed view of how YOU think things should happen because it just isn't that way in the real world.
I'd strongly suggest you air your issues with either David Hall ( dh@collectors.com ) or Don Willis ( DWillis@collectors.com ) before coming into their playground and complaining about the condition of the sandbox. Neither one of them likes to be bashed and they will respond very quickly to you regarding any issues that YOU feel need addressing.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>OK. Tell us your other REAL forum name and we can all drink Koolaid together again. OK?
Sorry to disappoint you, but I have NOTHING to hide. Go to the Lincoln set registry and you will find me and my very modest collection there. Email me from my link there if you need the proof sir. No hidden agenda here although it appears that I'm dealing with the "good ole boys club" that won't dare speak thier mind if it doesn't agree with the powers that be.
I stand corrected. For you to make that comment about ME you're DEFINITELY NOT someone that's been around here for too long.
<< <i>"...although it appears that I'm dealing with the "good ole boys club" that won't dare speak thier mind if it doesn't agree with the powers that be..."
I stand corrected. For you to make that comment about ME you're DEFINITELY NOT someone that's been around here for too long.
With that said I will apologize for making it sound like everyone here is of that mentality, although you must agree that there are some that dare not raise their voice in any way, shape or form, but we are getting off point here. Why so little PR from such a large company(as far as grading services go)? Again, 90% of my coins(as you can see for yourself) as PCGS graded....I don't dislike this company...I just don't care for the way they conduct themselves on numerous levels and truly hope that they recognize that "strict grading standards" is a great platform to base your company on, but it is far from all the things necessary for running a company in a customer oriented way. Talk to us PCGS! Communicate! Let us know what you feel you are suceeding in and where you need to improve. Hey, here's a thought...why not involve the suggestions/comments of some of your long term customers/dealers? Make me feel that when I chose you as my grading service not long ago that I made the right decision....right now I am definitely in doubt. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry. If I got your wheels turning about anything I spoke of then good for me. My membership expires in a few months. If I see any inkling of change then I'm renewing, otherwise I'll consider other graders.
I have hope that some day I'll be able to utilize your services since you are the unique individual who makes no errors...ever. Of course, because you don't provide a profile, I have no idea what services you provide but I am hopeful it's something that will be important to me, such as surgery.
As for me, I guess I'll have to struggle along making the occasional error. I just wish my error rate was as low as PCGS's error rate...
I'm honored that you perhaps feel I belong to this club but unfortunately, I do not. If something goes amiss at PCGS I sure let them know via eMail to get the situation corrected. But ............ I DO NOT come onto their public forum and complain about a "perceived" issue and then follow that up with complaints about how they run their operation. There is a right way to do things and then there's a not-so-right way to get these issues addressed.
After emailing BJ, Don and David, I have been notified by BJ that there are technical issues with the population reports. One of those issues could very well be your AG3RD 1914-D and all those other less than MS coins!
I do know that there were issues with the pops on some 1972 Type 2 IKEs a while back but that was quickly corrected. The coins didn't exist except in the pop reports.
Ref Thread Population report goofs are not uncommon and should also be added to the list of "Mistakes Happen"!
Perhaps if you were just a bit less narrow minded and antagonistic toward PCGS with regard to this issue and emailed the proper folks, you could make a difference. As it stands right now, you're just blowing smoke.
eMail the folks I mentioned earlier instead of attacking PCGS and threatening to not renew your membership over "your" perception of PCGS based upon an online Population Report.
Mistakes happen!
Edited for all the "Mistakes" I make!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Brewmaster:
I have hope that some day I'll be able to utilize your services since you are the unique individual who makes no errors...ever. Of course, because you don't provide a profile, I have no idea what services you provide but I am hopeful it's something that will be important to me, such as surgery.
As for me, I guess I'll have to struggle along making the occasional error. I just wish my error rate was as low as PCGS's error rate... >>
It seems you can't read well either kid. I state numerous times I make mistakes, but I try my best to rectify them. Now get back to class.
<< <i>Good Ole Boys Club?
I'm honored that you perhaps feel I belong to this club but unfortunately, I do not. If something goes amiss at PCGS I sure let them know via eMail to get the situation corrected. But ............ I DO NOT come onto their public forum and complain about a "perceived" issue and then follow that up with complaints about how they run their operation. There is a right way to do things and then there's a not-so-right way to get these issues addressed.
After emailing BJ, Don and David, I have been notified by BJ that there are technical issues with the population reports. One of those issues could very well be your AG3RD 1914-D and all those other less than MS coins!
I do know that there were issues with the pops on some 1972 Type 2 IKEs a while back but that was quickly corrected. The coins didn't exist except in the pop reports.
Ref Thread Population report goofs are not uncommon and should also be added to the list of "Mistakes Happen"!
Perhaps if you were just a bit less narrow minded and antagonistic toward PCGS with regard to this issue and emailed the proper folks, you could make a difference. As it stands right now, you're just blowing smoke.
eMail the folks I mentioned earlier instead of attacking PCGS and threatening to not renew your membership over "you're" perception of PCGS based upon an online Population Report.
Mistakes happen!
Edited for all the "Mistakes" I make!
Ya got to love the anger here! Thanks for reverting to attacking me directly. Did I ever say YOU sir? My God some people have thin skin or hear what they want to hear! I refuse to get into a childish name calling match with you or anyone. Did you ask me if I contacted customer service on this matter PRIOR to posting here? Why do think I finally bothered to sign up here just recently in the first place? My first response to my email: re: asking for the reasoning behind the 1941DDO/1958DDO issue was ................NOTHING. After a second email(guess it was a MISTAKE and they missed my first one) I received this response:
Hi,
Please refer to the PCGS Set Registry News page posts, beginning 6/3/09, informing members that various sets will be updated. This page has been updated, and will continue to be updated as changes are made to the various sets. http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/news.html
I took the time to go to the link and it pretty much says ...........NOTHING. except that the change was made to the set.....really? Didn't know that!
I then sent yet another email stating that I already knew of the changes, but, as I stated, was looking for their reasoning behind the change. I received a response that was very uninformative. Don't ask me to post it here as I have NOTHING to prove to you nor will it change your views. I'm done with this thread. It's turned in to something I would hope it wouldn't. By you stating that I'm "attacking" PCGS says in all. You have already concluded that I am wrong so any further rational, adult-like conversation is impractical. Got to go now....us "narrow minded" and "antagonistic" people got things to do.
<< <i>Why do think I finally bothered to sign up here just recently in the first place? >>
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!
The name is LEE!
In your response to my little post, you say that I [Brewmaster] state numerous times I make mistakes. In all your posts in this thread, I found precisely one place where you state you might possibly make an error: yes, I've made mistakes, but once aware of them I make sure I fix them. Now, because I admitted in my one post in this thread that I make errors, I agree that I might be overlooking some of your other assertions that you err oin some of your other posts. But I couldn't find them. And, quite frankly, I don't see where one comment is the same as "numerous times". Indeed, I might even suggest that perhaps your response to me contains an error. Now, if this is the case, so that your post contains an error then I am certain that you'll correct it since "once aware of them I make sure I fix them."
Thanks in advance for correcting your mistake.
For example, in my grading set, I have a few "Genuine" examples. One of them used the 2233 coin number for RB and the grade listed in the Registry is N97RB. Another example I have uses the 2232 coin number for BN and the grade listed in the Registry is N98BN.
Since all Lincolns are submitted under the RD number and all IHCs are submitted under the RB number it's not hard to imagine that sometimes they assign the wrong coin number to a coin. But like I said, unless someone posts pics to prove me wrong, the RB and RD designations are probably not on these slabs, so it's really not that big of a deal. Though you would get the bonus points in the Registry it seems.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>Why do think I finally bothered to sign up here just recently in the first place? >>
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out! >>
How origonal? I see you are yet again reverting to childish behavior rather than being a man capable of prudent debate. Unlike you, I wish you all the best eventhough we have different opinions. Maybe we can discuss this matter in the future....you know....when your intelect matures....good luck.
<< <i>Brewmaster:
In your response to my little post, you say that I [Brewmaster] state numerous times I make mistakes. In all your posts in this thread, I found precisely one place where you state you might possibly make an error: yes, I've made mistakes, but once aware of them I make sure I fix them. Now, because I admitted in my one post in this thread that I make errors, I agree that I might be overlooking some of your other assertions that you err oin some of your other posts. But I couldn't find them. And, quite frankly, I don't see where one comment is the same as "numerous times". Indeed, I might even suggest that perhaps your response to me contains an error. Now, if this is the case, so that your post contains an error then I am certain that you'll correct it since "once aware of them I make sure I fix them."
Thanks in advance for correcting your mistake. >>
I stand corrected sir. Indeed it appears that I only mentioned I make mistakes once....although isn't admitting it once just as reveant as repeating it numerous times? Nonetheless, you are correct and I retract adding the "s" to "mistake" in my post. There, in a timely and professional matter the issue was resolved. Regardless if you accept my apology or deem it satisfactory, it is a fact that it was addressed. More than I can say for the issues at PCGS. As far as the "one comment" wisecrack, is it really necessary for me to post every single comment that has transpired between myself and PR at PCGS? Should I write a book before you deem my issue revelant? Do you need to know what I was wearing at the time I sent the 2nd email to them? I think it was cloudy out and 67'F. There, does that make my point any more valid?
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>In looking at my grading set of 1908-S IHCs, I note that pop reports also have a few circulated RB/RD coins listed. However, as I stated before, I'm almost 100% sure that the RB/RD designation is NOT on the holder, but instead it's just the coin number assigned to the coin is the incorrect coin number.
For example, in my grading set, I have a few "Genuine" examples. One of them used the 2233 coin number for RB and the grade listed in the Registry is N97RB. Another example I have uses the 2232 coin number for BN and the grade listed in the Registry is N98BN.
Since all Lincolns are submitted under the RD number and all IHCs are submitted under the RB number it's not hard to imagine that sometimes they assign the wrong coin number to a coin. But like I said, unless someone posts pics to prove me wrong, the RB and RD designations are probably not on these slabs, so it's really not that big of a deal. Though you would get the bonus points in the Registry it seems. >>
Excellent and prudent post in every way. I thank you for sticking to the matter at hand and not busting out insulting remarks because of differences in opinions. What you just posted right there(if correct, and it does sound reasonable) is a reasonable reply that I would expect from PCGS rather than getting BS or no reply at all. AGAIN, ONE MORE TIME.....I do not dislike PCGS!!!! The vast majority of my collection is graded by them!!!!! All I want to see is better communication between us and them. I do not think that is too much to ask for and even if they deem it is and decide to not change a thing, at least they will know the reason(s) why I MAY eventually choose another grading service over them.
<< <i>You guys are arguing about how you communicate, rather than about the issue at hand. Kind of like how spouses argue. Are you guys from Massachusetts? >>
SOOOO True! Finally, the intelligent replies are coming fourth. Matt, I have no idea where you stand on this matter, but I can tell you one thing...if we are at opposite ends here, I promise not to bust out "your momma" or any other childish insults if you state something that I disagree with. BTW, I did visit MA twice!
<< <i>Matt, I have no idea where you stand on this matter, but I can tell you one thing...if we are at opposite ends here, I promise not to bust out "your momma" or any other childish insults if you state something that I disagree with. BTW, I did visit MA twice! >>
OK, so here's where I stand. Personally, if it were my coin, I would prefer to have it correctly attributed in the proper holder. There's a conflict of interest though, especially when you're trying to build a registry set, and you buy a BN coin in a RD holder and receive bonus points as a result. My feeling is that of: why would you want a coin whose holder lies about what is within? Why wouldn't you want to have it corrected. I for one can tell you that it's hard to sell BN or RB coins in RD holders, or a 65 in a 66 holder, and they never make you feel quite right, as you probably foolishly overpaid in the first place.
As for PCGS involvement, I am willing to give a little benefit of the doubt, and call it a clerical error. As long as they are willing to fix it for free, I'm willing to accept very occasional errors of this type. For the one mechanical error that I ever had corrected, PCGS even sent me a check to cover my end of the postage.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>
<< <i>Matt, I have no idea where you stand on this matter, but I can tell you one thing...if we are at opposite ends here, I promise not to bust out "your momma" or any other childish insults if you state something that I disagree with. BTW, I did visit MA twice! >>
OK, so here's where I stand. Personally, if it were my coin, I would prefer to have it correctly attributed in the proper holder. There's a conflict of interest though, especially when you're trying to build a registry set, and you buy a BN coin in a RD holder and receive bonus points as a result. My feeling is that of: why would you want a coin whose holder lies about what is within? Why wouldn't you want to have it corrected. I for one can tell you that it's hard to sell BN or RB coins in RD holders, or a 65 in a 66 holder, and they never make you feel quite right, as you probably foolishly overpaid in the first place.
As for PCGS involvement, I am willing to give a little benefit of the doubt, and call it a clerical error. As long as they are willing to fix it for free, I'm willing to accept very occasional errors of this type. For the one mechanical error that I ever had corrected, PCGS even sent me a check to cover my end of the postage. >>
He's not whining about his coin, he's whining because an AG3RD is listed in the pop reports for a 1914-D! Since its been reported that "There are technical problems with the pop that are being addressed." (in an email from BJ) and since David Hall replied in an email "No such thing as a copper coin in RB or RD below MS60. These are mechanical errors that occasionally crop up and we fix them when we find them.", I expect that these coins do not even exist except in the pop reports where they will eventually disappear when these "Technical Problems" get resolved.
Ole Brewster needs to start reading just a wee bit more objectively.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>It seems you can't read well either kid. I state numerous times I make mistakes, but I try my best to rectify them. Now get back to class. >>
<< <i>The 19 must stand for your age kid.....grow up. >>
This disdain you have for "kids" should really be addressed!
So much for "Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain this to me?".
You get offered an explanation and then just blow it off choosing instead to "grind your Axe" on PCGS!
<< <i>*****Well there ya go folks...."They just happen". I'm glad you are not my surgeon! I take it from your statement that you work for PCGS? Well enlighten us as to how things like this "happen all the time"?
"I've just started posting here, but trust me, it has been a LONG time coming. I'm simply sick and tired of the stuff I see going on here with "the best 3rd party grader in the business". >>
Try to get a clue!
This "shameful, disturbing and IMO completely unacceptable" error which has you questioning PCGS's position as the top TPG and the maturity level of some posters is.............
.......... IN THE POP REPORTS! The coins do not exist except in that database which through PCGS's own admission has problems. For that matter, anybody that follows the Pop Reports knows that.................
Mistakes Happen!
Hmmm. I have no anger issues friend and this entire situation does not make me angry in the least bit. The reality is that this entire issue is based upon the assumption that PCGS graded an AG coin as RED when the reality is that its a simple population report error. That very same situation is more than likely what also contributed to the adding of the 1958 DDO as a required coin in the Major Varieties Set.
Time will work them out as with any mistake.
The name is LEE!