1817/3 Capped Bust Half Dollars.............Where are they?
drddm
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I have been searching for a nice, original looking (not dipped or lightly cleaned) 1817/3 CBH PCGS AU for quite some time, however, I RARELY see them available for sale. PCGS shows that quite a few have been graded in AU but I wonder if they are in some pretty tight hands as very few dealers seem to have any in PCGS AU these days.
Does anyone have any opinions as to why 1817/3 CBH's appear to be so scarce?
Most of the ones I have seen in (PCGS AU) in the archives of Heritage, Bowers and Merena, etc lack quite a lot as far as eye appeal and originality.
Where are all the 1817/3's?
Does anyone have any opinions as to why 1817/3 CBH's appear to be so scarce?
Most of the ones I have seen in (PCGS AU) in the archives of Heritage, Bowers and Merena, etc lack quite a lot as far as eye appeal and originality.
Where are all the 1817/3's?
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Right next to the MS66 1816.
Seriously though, what's up with all the 1817/3's....where are all the nice, ORIGINAL and unmessed with PCGS AU's?
Anyone?
<< <i>LOL Lordmarcovan....Gee, I wish I had a MS66 1816 CBH......my 1816 is only MS63!!
Seriously though, what's up with all the 1817/3's....where are all the nice, ORIGINAL and unmessed with PCGS AU's?
Anyone? >>
While the pop reports mat be skewed due to resubmissions over the years... if there are a good number of examples "out there", you may have answered your own question in your original post... They might all be held by strong hands...
I know of at least one collector who literally hordes all and any PCGS/NGC CBH overdates he can get his hands on...and has no intention of selling anytime in the near future...
<< <i>LOL Lordmarcovan....Gee, I wish I had a MS66 1816 CBH......my 1816 is only MS63!!
Seriously though, what's up with all the 1817/3's....where are all the nice, ORIGINAL and unmessed with PCGS AU's?
Anyone? >>
The problem isn't that AU 17/3's are that rare--while uncommon, they aren't rare. The problem is that a minimum of 90 percent of them don't fit your requirements, ie, ORIGINAL and unmessed with--yes, with all due respect to our hosts--even the ones in PCGS holders. That makes the coins that do fit your stated requirements EXTREMELY rare. (as in probably countable on one hand)
<< <i>
<< <i>LOL Lordmarcovan....Gee, I wish I had a MS66 1816 CBH......my 1816 is only MS63!!
Seriously though, what's up with all the 1817/3's....where are all the nice, ORIGINAL and unmessed with PCGS AU's?
Anyone? >>
The problem isn't that AU 17/3's are that rare--while uncommon, they aren't rare. The problem is that a minimum of 90 percent of them don't fit your requirements, ie, ORIGINAL and unmessed with--yes, with all due respect to our hosts--even the ones in PCGS holders. That makes the coins that do fit your stated requirements EXTREMELY rare. (as in probably countable on one hand) >>
I agree with this and think that 90% might be low for the estimate of boinked 1817/3 CBHs. The temptation over the years to improve any CBH has led to the downfall of many an original coin, but some coins seem to call more than others for manipulation. As an example, I own an EF45 1817/3 that is totally original, yet I have had several dealers offer me aggressive money for the coin because, as one put it, "I can clean this coin up and have it in an AU53 holder in no time".
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Their prices, especially in PCGS AU, have also recently climbed up quite a bit. I guess this price increase goes along with it's scarcity.
And, I agree that about 90 percent of the ones around today have been messed with in some way. If anyone does a search for this date on Heritage, Bowers and Merena, Stacks's, etc they will see all the unappealing 17/3's that have been sold over the years, thus making the TRULY original looking AU's EXTREMELY RARE, tough to locate, and quite costly.....justifiably so.
I'd love to see some AU 17/3's that haven't been messed with, so.......post 'em if you got 'em folks.
Let's see those beautiful 1817/3 CBH overdates!!!
The Registry ( for CBH's) shows 2 AU 55's, 2 53's 2 35's and 1 F15.
Hermann's Auction and Mail Bid Prices show only 2 AU 58's, and none by PCGS in that grade.
There is no auction record at Heritage for any MS 63's, Nor any in Hermann. But I am aware of the location al all 3 63's in the Pop report.
There are 2 64's, and none higher at PCGS. Both coins are in old time collections.
The NGC 66 sold at CSNS in May is the highest graded by any service.
If there are really a dozen or more AU 55 and 58 coins slabbed by PCGS, they are hiding very well.
The only image I have is my MS63 on the Registry.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Nice 55, congrats!!!
I can't tell by your pics but do you know if your 17/3 is original?
There is no question that the PCGS POP shows many more exist in this marriage than actually do exist. The price differential is enough to justify a number of submissions until the wanted grade is finally achieved.
It is a XF40 and I love it but I want to upgrade it to a PCGS AU.
Here is my XF40...........
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
There seems to be more variation in terms of strike found on the reverse of 17/3's compared to the obverse, which is typically weakly struck, especially at the center on the hair curls and always on the lowest curl, just above the clasp.
I was fortunate to have found my 17/3 early on BEFORE prices started climbing up.
Even though I love my example, I wouldn't mind parting with it if someone could point me towards a nice PCGS AU example.
K S
They say it is a genuine holder but do not give the code. I assume it is because of a long ago cleaning.