How old is this fingerprint? (Crazy explanation added at end)

messydesk

I posed the same question on VAMWorld, and I'm curious to see what people here will come up with.

rgCoinGuy

I honestly have no idea how you would tell, but I can give you my best guestimate.

The color of the toning of the prints is consistent with the color of the toning on the rest of the coin.

I am going to say 30-40 years old, guessing it was handled during the time of the GSA sales.

speety

I would like to see a detailed picture of your fingertips as well as the timeline that you have owned the coin before making a guess!

JK, but honestly i have no clue...

edix2001

That fingerprint proves that man lived side by side with the dinosaurs, thus the earth is about 5,000 years old.

boucharda

<< <i>I am going to say 30-40 years old, guessing it was handled during the time of the GSA sales. >>

LoveMyLiberty

I would say sometime between 5pm on wednesday 1882 & four in the morning on Thursday,
give or take a century!

AU58WALKERS

17 years, 3 months, 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 43 minutes, 27 seconds and counting.

messydesk

OK, the coin is in a GSA holder (you can see the black plastic on the reverse rim). Now consider that it is documented that everyone that handled these coins during the GSA packaging in 1972-3 wore cotton gloves.

dragon

I believe that dark brown or black is the final color progression for fingerprints on silver coins and it takes years to get there. They typically start out clear then eventually turn to a pale yellow and then progress through the yellows to various shades of tan and finally through the browns and finally black. I've also seen examples where dipping a silver coin with dark prints may turn them backwards in color progression to tan or yellowish again.

dizzyfoxx

Based on my forensic evaluation of that stucturally intact fingerprint on that piece of silver, my estimate is that is was placed there on or around November of 1929. Of course give or take....

eggbone

128 years. Probably some mint worker having a bad day

timcoin

Don't know, but that is one heck of a nice coin photograph.

metalmeister

From the grading room

bushmaster8

Hmmm. I've seen 1971-S IKEs still in the gvmt. plio. packaging with big fingerprints.

You do know that when you eat at a restaurant, no one preparing you meal should ever touch your food with bare hands, right? It's kinda like that I guess.

flicker

Who says its a fingerprint?
Looks more like a big toe to me!

messydesk

<< <i>Hmmm. I've seen 1971-S IKEs still in the gvmt. plio. packaging with big fingerprints. >>


Interesting. The question that begs is the same as for the subject coin? Whose fingerprint is it? Someone in the coining room, or someone in packaging? In the case of the Ike, they were at most days away from each other, for the 1881-CC Morgan, the time difference was 91-92 years.

Edscoin

From the size of it I would say it's a Thumb Print.

PerryHall

<< <i>From the size of it I would say it's a Thumb Print. >>



Agree. Looks like someone used their thumb to press that coin into a coin album.

seemyauction

Without a doubt in my mind the finger print is less than 130 years old...............


eddited to add: Incredible photo.

Bochiman

Did you have the print ran through the database to see who's it is?
That would be helpful info as well

ProofArtworkonCircs

For all I know, it is an original 1881 mint worker print. If not, something since.

messydesk

Well, here's my official take on it, not that that really means any of it is right, just that it's my stance at the moment.

If you read chapter 9 of the VAM book, you'll see how the CC dollars were handled with care and only by gloved hands. I'm going to assume this is true and say that it has to be a fingerprint from an 1881 CC mint employee. I'll even go one step further and start to determine which once. Note that the weaker prints on the obverse and reverse rims are in the same place. Pick up a coin, obverse side up, from a pile by its edge with thumb and forefinger of your left hand. Have your thumb by E PLURIB and your forefinger will be by the mintmark. Take a cursory look at the obverse, then flip it over without putting it down, but so that you can inspect the entire reverse. You can flip it over in your fingertips such that the center of the obverse lands on the fingertip of your index finger. If these two-sided prints indicate the coin was picked up for inspection, then the prints belong to someone tasked with that duty -- a left-handed quality inspector. (CSI junkies will now picture me with a stack of Morgan dollars and an ink pad in a room lit only by mood lighting of various colors, background music, and computers that chirp as they process images trying to reproduce this pattern.)

It is now interesting to ponder how many other 128 year old fingerprints exist that can be attributed to only a handful of people? A quick glance at the history of fingerprinting (according to Wikipedia) shows that the first use of fingerprints in a criminal case was in 1892, so the practice of fingerprinting government employees of sensitive operations, such as minting coins, for identification purposes wouldn't have existed then. Fast forward to 1972. Would all the potential GSA coin handlers have been printed? If so, we could possibly rule them all out (chirping computers again), and demonstrate that, absent an 1878-80 GSA coin with similar print, this is the oldest fingerprint in numismatics, as there would be no older coin known to have gone from initial minting and bagging to sealed container without having been touched in between.

Yeah, that's a lot of "ifs," and it doesn't rule out any unofficial handling in 1972, but it's kind of neat to think about and wonder if there could be such thing as a desirable fingerprint on a coin.

Glad you like the picture. I think I'm going to put this in my 2010 coin calendar with a "Possible 129 year old fingerprint" subtitle. Thanks for playing along.

AUandAG

I think it was the same mint employee that did them both. here's mine from CC

GFourDriver

<<<I think it was the same mint employee that did them both. here's mine from CC>>>

After examining both prints there is a 14 point match, convictions are obtained with far fewer points.

AUandAG

<< <i><<<I think it was the same mint employee that did them both. here's mine from CC>>>

After examining both prints there is a 14 point match, convictions are obtained with far fewer points. >>




LMAO: You're not serious? lol
that's great!
bob

asheland

Very cool thread!

Dennis88

notlogical

That's something I always wondered about. What if someone famous left a fingerprint on a coin 100+ years ago. There's no way to prove whose fingerprint it was. If you could, man, talk about a provenance.