When CAC stickers become counterfeited...

ecichlid

When CAC stickers become counterfeited, will that be the end of CAC? I mean, they seem like they would be easy to reproduce. Am I missing the obvious here?

adamlaneus

I believe CAC has an electronic registry where you can double check any slab serial for the existence of a CAC sticker.

Thus, it would best if you counterfeitted the slab and slab label as well to match the serial number.

If CAC counterfeits were to be found, I suspect it would not be terribly difficult to trace back the purchases and find the origination of the fraud. Perhaps I am wrong.

mozin

I believe CAC company has a handle on the possibility of counterfeiting their stickers. CAC, I believe, is ahead of PCGS/NGC in the counterfeiting business.

ecichlid

The "I believe"s are not giving me much confidence. What is known?

blu62vette

Wouldnt someone have to make a fake coin, then a fake slab and then a fake sticker since the registry includes all 3 items?

ecichlid

Ok. I found this.

So it seems it would only make sense if the slab is fake too. http://www.caccoin.com/look-up-your-coins/

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>The "I believe"s are not giving me much confidence. What is known? >>



I'd suggest that you call or email John and ask. If there are unique tracers in the sticker I doubt that they will give out that info and make it easier to counterfeit the bean.

tmot99

<< <i>I believe CAC has an electronic registry where you can double check any slab serial for the existence of a CAC sticker. >>



And how does one check this registry when buying a coin on the floor of a show?

adamlaneus

With your iPhone, silly.

MikeInFL

<< <i>When CAC stickers become counterfeited, will that be the end of CAC? I mean, they seem like they would be easy to reproduce. Am I missing the obvious here? >>



The Obvious

ecichlid

"Wouldnt someone have to make a fake coin, then a fake slab and then a fake sticker since the registry includes all 3 items? "

How about a coin that is legit and there is a big price increase in the grade or two above it. Couldn't someone put a real coin in the fake overgraded slab?

ecichlid

MikeInFL, read my post that's ahead of yours by a few. We're moving a bit quick for you Florida.

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>The "I believe"s are not giving me much confidence. What is known? >>



CAC indeed has an electronic registry where you can double check any slab serial for the existence of a CAC sticker. So unless the counterfeitters also counterfeit the CAC website, I'm certainly not in the least bit concerned about it.

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>

<< <i>I believe CAC has an electronic registry where you can double check any slab serial for the existence of a CAC sticker. >>



And how does one check this registry when buying a coin on the floor of a show? >>



It's called a Blackberry.

TwoSides2aCoin

This is a sticky situation. Smell the glue.

ecichlid

I was a the Mid-America show the other weekend and I lost count of all the guys verifying the slabs with their mobile devices.

Anyway...

How about a coin that is legit and there is a big price increase in the grade or two above it. Couldn't someone put a real coin in the fake overgraded slab?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>"Wouldnt someone have to make a fake coin, then a fake slab and then a fake sticker since the registry includes all 3 items? "

How about a coin that is legit and there is a big price increase in the grade or two above it. Couldn't someone put a real coin in the fake overgraded slab? >>



I assume that you are talking about taking an unstickered slab and putting a fake sticker on it hoping that any potential sucker won't know about online verification or be able to detect that a sticker is counterfeited.

AnkurJ

Only buy in person fr a reputable dealer or one you know well.

ecichlid

No, I moved on as my question was answered. But it brought up an interesting thought. Couldn't someone put a real coin in the fake overgraded slab? Is this reaching a bit?

ecichlid

<< <i>Only buy in person fr a reputable dealer or one you know well. >>



I agree that buying from a good dealer adds a layer of protection. But even dealers can get fooled.

blu62vette

So now you are saying someone will have a real coin in close condition to what they want to fake, a fake slab and a fake sticker (which have not been reported yet).

Talk to the dealer. See about a return policy, if you think it is fake find out immediately and let the dealer know. At many major shows you can find internet access. Ask the dealer he might have the internet or can direct you to someone who does.

blu62vette

<< <i>No, I moved on as my question was answered. But it brought up an interesting thought. Couldn't someone put a real coin in the fake overgraded slab? Is this reaching a bit? >>



Personally, and this is not meant as an attack on you, I think you are reaching on this one.

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>

<< <i>Only buy in person fr a reputable dealer or one you know well. >>



I agree that buying from a good dealer adds a layer of protection. But even dealers can get fooled. >>



In the words of Obi Won, "Who's more the fool... the fool, or the fool who follows him"?

ecichlid

No, it's ok, that's why I asked the question.

FORGET THE STICKER FOR A MOMENT.

For an unscrupulous counterfeiter, wouldn't it make sense to purchase real coins that had a large price increase for the grade or two above and then create a fake slab for them? Maybe a MS-65 becomes a MS-67 and there are thousands of dollars to be made.

MrEureka

I agree that buying from a good dealer adds a layer of protection. But even dealers can get fooled.

True, but you can return the coin to the dealer if the sticker turns out to be bogus.

ColonialCoinUnion

If people are out there counterfeiting coins and slabs with the cert. numbers seen in the Heritage archives, it seems likely that they'll eventually counterfeit a few of the ones with CAC stickers on them too.

In which case, they'll check out as legit on both the PCGS and CAC sites.

BAJJERFAN

I guess the question is can a CAC sticker be counterfeited/copied so no one can tell it from a real one or are there hidden markers that make them difficult to duplicate?

Gemineye

<< <i>With your iPhone, silly. >>


Yeah...Don't you know anything...????....by the way What's a Google..?!!?...

joebb21

if one can copy a pcgs or ngc sticker I see no reason why they cant copy a CAC beanie

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>if one can copy a pcgs or ngc sticker I see no reason why they cant copy a CAC beanie >>



If one was to send the fake sticker to CAC do they have a definitive way to verify if it is a fake?

fcloud

<< <i>Wouldnt someone have to make a fake coin, then a fake slab and then a fake sticker since the registry includes all 3 items? >>



Fake coins and slab are already being made. The sticker wouldn't be that much more work for them.

Does CAC image all the coins they sticker, or do they just have an database with the serial number, etc?

tradedollarnut

When CAC stickers become counterfeited, will that be the end of CAC?

When PCGS holders become counterfeited, will that be the end of PCGS?

Doesn't appear to be.

MrEureka

If people are out there counterfeiting coins and slabs with the cert. numbers seen in the Heritage archives, it seems likely that they'll eventually counterfeit a few of the ones with CAC stickers on them too.

In which case, they'll check out as legit on both the PCGS and CAC sites.

But if CAC provides an image of the coin, few fakes will stand up to the cert check.

Zoins

I think CAC should be safe because CAC does not have an authentication guarantee.

Authentication of the coin and slab should come first with the TPG slab. Once that is verified, it would be easy to verify the sticker through a cert lookup.