June 23, 1922 Former ANS Vice President J. Sanford Saltus Dies from Cyanide Poisoning, Post A D

ambro51

J. Sanford Saltus died on June 23, 1922 under peculiar circumstances: while in London to attend a meeting of the British Numismatic Society, Saltus poisoned himself with cyanide. After his death it was suggested that Saltus had committed suicide because a secret engagement was not going well; however, the cause of death was officially listed as "death by misadventure"—the coroner held that Saltus had been drinking ginger ale while cleaning coins with the cyanide and had accidentally mistaken the glass of cyanide for the one containing ginger ale. At the time of his death, Saltus was president of both the New York Numismatic Club and British Numismatic Society.

(excerpt from the www)

Cyanide is an amazing chemical compound. With many industrial applications, it has the ability to break down and dissolve many metallic compounds. It is also used as a Fixer in the wet plate photographic process. Also, it was the poison of choice used by many former leaders of Nazi Germany.

Saltus, unfortunately, probably did not have suicide in mind on that June day back in 1922, most likely he was only giving a quick cleaning to some coins, a common practice of the day. Cyanide does its nasty deed by preventing the blood from absorbing Oxygen. It should only be used by those trained in its risks and dangers. Many photographers have used KCn for decades with no ill effects, but one slip up........ There are 3 fatal human doses per gram. Please never try it for cleaning your coins....it is an idea whos time has came and went.

So, in memory of Mr. Saltus, post a coin which has obviously been dipped, or any 1922

PerryHall

Every coin doctor should drink cyanide.

PerryHall

I read once that cyanide was used by old time coin doctors to dip brown copper to give it a red color. Can anyone verify this?

ambro51

would you like me to send you some, and you can try it?

PerryHall

<< <i>would you like me to send you some, and you can try it? >>



No thanks. I sure as hell wouldn't confuse it with ginger ale and drink it.

ambro51

It could easily be done. In solution it is indeed a very very pale yellow....just no bubbles.

Always remember, the best way to clean coins is to first use a brillo pad, and then use a pencil eraser to smooth it out.

lordmarcovan

I remember that story.

Still give me the willies, thinkin' about what his first few seconds after the big gulp must've been like- what was goin' through his head when he realized he drank from the wrong glass.

If he even did. I guess it's pretty fast-acting. Remind me to ask Hermann Goering someday, if I ever end up... down there.

lordmarcovan

OK, here's something from 1922.



And another random thought... I wonder if Saltus' coins still have deadly residue on them, after 87 years? Probably not. I still wouldn't wanna pop one of his pedigreed pieces in my mouth, if you knowhutimean.

ambro51

Hermann is probably living the after life as the daring WW1 Ace, flying around in his Biplane shooting down Brits.

The very strange thing with cyanide, in relation to its use as a fixer in the wet plate process, is that the accepted antidote back in the day was a weak acidic solution of Ferrous Sulfate...which was Exactly what the developer was. More than one photographer had his life saved by gulping developer......It neutralized the cyanide and turns it into what any machinest knows well as prussian blue, which is non toxic

Goldbully

greghansen

TomB

While in grad school at Columbia University, my PhD advisor took his own life one night by ingesting a spoonful of cyanide.

stinkinlincoln

<<Every coin doctor should drink cyanide.>>

LOL


What does one consider the people at NCS?

coindeuce

J.J.Pittman was notorious for his penchant to tinker with cyanide on silver coins while working as a chemical engineer at Eastman Kodak.

PerryHall

<< <i><<Every coin doctor should drink cyanide.>>

LOL


What does one consider the people at NCS? >>



The NCS people are coin conservators which is different.

lkeigwin

FEC

Hey may have gotten sick of the moustache jokes and decided to end it.

PerryHall

<< <i>Hey may have gotten sick of the moustache jokes and decided to end it. >>



Wouldn't it have easier to just shave it off?

19Lyds

Interesting since cyanide dissolves gold.

When I worked in a plating shop back in the 60's, we had a cyanide bath which we used to strip gold off of rejected integrated circuit casings.
The cyanide poisoning training we received pretty much amounted to make them as comfortable as possible after contacting emergency help since there was little that could be done.

And no I would not wish this on any coin doctor and I DO NOT consider dipping coins to remove unwanted tarnish or ugly toning to be "doctoring".

astrorat

<< <i>While in grad school at Columbia University, my PhD advisor took his own life one night by ingesting a spoonful of cyanide. >>



Yikes! I imagine that was quite a shock...fortunately, academia never drove me to that!

Lane

lordmarcovan

Thread resurrected 'cause it was a morbidly fascinating story and I had to search to pull this thread up to remember the particulars. Might as well bring it back TTT and the sunlight.

PerryHall

Is cyanide still being used these days for doctoring coins or are only safer chemicals now being used? I wouldn't even know where to find something as dangerous as cyanide. I imagine the government now controls the sale and distribution of such a dangerous chemical.

ambro51

cyanide is the most effective reducing agent of metals known. It is used in nearly every aspect of gold and silver mining, and also is used in many plating applications. I use it as a fixing agent in wet plate photography.. and yes, it is available easily, though, at least with MY supplier...he has to 'know you'. There are 4 fatal doses per gram.

Sonorandesertrat

"...Cyanide does its nasty deed by preventing the blood from absorbing Oxygen..."

Regarding the physiological action of cyanide, this statement is incorrect. Cyanide inhibits the action of cytochrome c oxidase, a key enzyme in the mitochondrial respiratory chain---when this enzyme is shut down, your mitochondria can no longer produce ATP (an energetic molecule used as a kind of fuel by your cells, particularly muscle and brain cells). This results in a fatal heart attack. Cyanide can prevent oxygen from binding to hemoglobin in your red blood cells, but such large amounts are needed that you would be dead before this happens.

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>Is cyanide still being used these days for doctoring coins or are only safer chemicals now being used? I wouldn't even know where to find something as dangerous as cyanide. I imagine the government now controls the sale and distribution of such a dangerous chemical. >>



Cyanide compounds are readily available, and are used in enormous quantities by the mining industry.

BlindedByEgo

I remember as a young kid my dad coming home from work one day... He was white as a sheet. He worked in a large plating shop as a process engineer, and one of the industrial chemicals around which he worked was Cyanide. He gave it a lot of respect.

Seems that day a technician was working over a Cyanide pickling bath, used in the process to prep large items for plating. The gentleman was leaning over the tank, slipped, and fell in. Not a great thing to observe, but a MUCH worse day for the tech, who was dead before he could even be pulled from the tank.

Tdec1000

<< <i>cyanide is the most effective reducing agent of metals known. It is used in nearly every aspect of gold and silver mining, and also is used in many plating applications. I use it as a fixing agent in wet plate photography.. and yes, it is available easily, though, at least with MY supplier...he has to 'know you'. There are 4 fatal doses per gram. >>




So have you ever tried it out on an old crusty dollar or perhaps a lowly lincoln cent?

johnny9434

<< <i> >>



that i like

questor54

<< <i>Every coin doctor should drink cyanide. >>



Rather harsh.

questor54

<< <i>I remember that story.

Still give me the willies, thinkin' about what his first few seconds after the big gulp must've been like- what was goin' through his head when he realized he drank from the wrong glass.

If he even did. I guess it's pretty fast-acting. Remind me to ask Hermann Goering someday, if I ever end up... down there. >>



Near the end of his life Goering was rather big down there, I believe.

questor54

<< <i>While in grad school at Columbia University, my PhD advisor took his own life one night by ingesting a spoonful of cyanide. >>



Was your thesis that bad?

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>...inhibits the action of cytochrome c oxidase, a key enzyme in the mitochondrial respiratory chain >>


We just don't talk like this in Kentucky.

questor54

<< <i>

<< <i>...inhibits the action of cytochrome c oxidase, a key enzyme in the mitochondrial respiratory chain >>


We just don't talk like this in Kentucky. >>



Hey Depressing Thread Guy! Why not link this thread up with your depression thread?

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

@lordmarcovan said:

Still give me the willies, thinkin' about what his first few seconds after the big gulp must've been like- what was goin' through his head when he realized he drank from the wrong glass.

WillieBoyd2

a spoonful of cyanide makes the medicine go down

𝖆𝖈𝖈𝖚𝖒𝖚𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖔𝖗

This is a sad thread.

Good advice to not handle poison to clean coins, and definitely don't drink poison.

Still very sad though.

ernie11

Slightly off topic, but in researching my family tree, I came across a great-great uncle who had gone with family and friends to Atlantic City. They ate a lot of clams and got a touch of indigestion, so they went to a road house and ordered ginger ale to settle their stomachs. Somehow a mistake was made, and instead they drank fire extinguisher fluid. Some of the folks only had a small amount and were sick and recovered, but my great-great uncle drank enough to kill him.

𝖆𝖈𝖈𝖚𝖒𝖚𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖔𝖗

Oh my God.

That's terrible.

Coinosaurus

John Kleeberg wrote an article a few years ago (I believe in ANS Magazine), presenting a strong case that Saltus did indeed commit suicide.

yspsales

Makes me wonder how I didn't injest something in the darkroom or blow something up...

CopperWire

@Coinosaurus said:
John Kleeberg wrote an article a few years ago (I believe in ANS Magazine), presenting a strong case that Saltus did indeed commit suicide.

do you have a link to the article?