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Question about 10 oz silver bars.

PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
At my coin club meeting last night, a friend sold me six 10 oz Johnson-Matthey bars. These bars have the normal front and the smooth back without the design found on the newer J-M bars. Any idea when these were made? They don't look like poured bars. They have the plastic sleeves but they appear to be old and PVC with some separation at the seams. In other words the sleeves appear to be deteriorating. Are these bars worth any less without the sleeves? Should I remove them from their sleeves or leave well enough alone? The bars look fine but a dip in acetone wouldn't hurt them. Any and all opinions are welcomed.

Edited to add that it looks like the J-M bar in Weiss' thread "Which do you prefer?" except the back of the bars are blank.




Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

Comments

  • RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077 ✭
    I can't help with when these bars were manufactured but I would recommend taking them out of the plastic sleeves.

    The sleeves really don't add any value, especially if they're torn up, and if they're possibly deteriorating PVC they should pitched out.

    I've dipped some of my bars in E-Z-Est for a few seconds to remove tarnish/residue/etc.

    6 ten ounce JM bars should be a good pick up right now with silver diving a bit this month.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I only paid $140 for each bar so I got them cheap enough. Anyone know what these sleeves are made of? They appear to be PVC but that's only an educated guess.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MPLunaticMPLunatic Posts: 617 ✭✭
    Yeah trash the sleeves, I would rather have a shiny looking bar that I can hold in my hands then have a tarnished bar in an old sleeve. I would say you did very well, less than spot on bars which usually cary a decent premium.
  • RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077 ✭
    $140/bar is a great price. I'd have bought them in a flash.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any guesses as to how old these bars are? The condition of the plastic sleeves lead me to think that these bars have been around for a while but they may have just been poorly stored.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    I've never ran across any definite proof but from what I've seen/read they are from the 80's.
    Its all relative
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've never ran across any definite proof but from what I've seen/read they are from the 80's. >>



    Thanks. Sounds reasonable. The silver bars held up a lot better than the plastic sleeves.image
    So, is the general consensus that the plastic sleeves don't add any value to the silver bars?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    Yes, the sleeves add no value.
    Becky
  • Norseman88Norseman88 Posts: 962


    << <i>I only paid $140 for each bar so I got them cheap enough. Anyone know what these sleeves are made of? They appear to be PVC but that's only an educated guess. >>



    Beats the hell out of paying big bucks for 10 oz. and smaller bars. I'll buy just about anything if the price is right, a few years ago I picked up an old 100 gram JM silver bar in a velvet lined presentation box for roughly $34 which was 50 cents over spot at the time.
  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    Yes, I would toss the sleeves. Sometimes they'll sell a little higher if they are still in the sleeves but not if they are Ratty sleeves. There are some that will not buy the bars unless they are still sealed in the sleeves. I know at least one board member here that's on that list image
    Its all relative
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PerryHall,

    You can make your own sleaves for 10 ounce bars using 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 mylar flip. Cut the mylar flip in half, slide them over the bar from each end of the 10 OZ bar. Tape the two mylar 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 halves together where they overlap in the middle.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PerryHall,

    You can make your own sleaves for 10 ounce bars using 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 mylar flip. Cut the mylar flip in half, slide them over the bar from each end of the 10 OZ bar. Tape the two mylar 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 halves together where they overlap in the middle. >>



    I have some heavy duty polyethylene zip-lock bags that fit the 10 oz bars nicely so storage and protection from damage isn't a problem. The problem is that some people apparently don't want the bars without the original sleeve. I'm not sure how prevalent this need for original sleeves is by the buyers of bars. Do bullion dealers care? I think some people lose sight of the fact that these bars are only bullion after all.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think some people lose sight of the fact that these bars are only bullion after all. >>

    Very true, but those bars that are heavily scratched and beat to hell are very unappealing to me.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think some people lose sight of the fact that these bars are only bullion after all. >>

    Very true, but those bars that are heavily scratched and beat to hell are very unappealing to me. >>



    Agree. They should be protected from damage. Good appearances always make any merchandise more saleable.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On a related note...

    The original sealed plastic covers on two of the Eng bars that I bought several months back were yellowing, bent and too brittle to "relax" back into their original shape, and one had writing on it (stock numbers and a price, I think).

    What else could I do but go out to the garage and get the Armor All? Yep, I Armor All'd the sleeves on two 10 oz bars of silver. Made the plastic supple and translucent, and faded the writing to where it's pretty much unnoticeable. 100% better than they were.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,234 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>On a related note...

    The original sealed plastic covers on two of the Eng bars that I bought several months back were yellowing, bent and too brittle to "relax" back into their original shape, and one had writing on it (stock numbers and a price, I think).

    What else could I do but go out to the garage and get the Armor All? Yep, I Armor All'd the sleeves on two 10 oz bars of silver. Made the plastic supple and translucent, and faded the writing to where it's pretty much unnoticeable. 100% better than they were. >>



    I wonder what the long term effect of the Armor All on the plastic sleeves will be. I'd keep an eye on them since the Armor All may be slowly disolving the plastic. Anyone know what's in Armor All?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    The bars will be fine as bullion without the sleeves but to bring that extra premium for being a collectible & for the eccentric the plastic is good to have intact.

    I think Armour all would be fine. I use it for all types of stuff and have for years with no ill side effects. I go through about 8 gallons of it per year. It Seems to remove scratches as well as clean & condition plastic.
    Its all relative
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    I would not remove the JM bars from intact plastic, nor would I toss the plastic unless it's completely torn up and really unattractive. If you check Ebay the ones in plastic consistently bring more $$$ than the raw bars, even if the plastic is not 100% sealed.
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