1875-CC Trade Dollar, Type 1/2, post yours?

kaz

Apparently, few of these were made because the type-II reverse dies arrived late in the year at Carson City. I'd like to see some more examples, and if anyone has information on rarity or populations, that would be appreciated. Thanks!

MFH

I have another set of images which are better but they are too large to post - sorry.

I'm not a Trade Dollar specialist - and I have no idea if its a Ty 1 or Ty 2.
I just liked the coin - especially for the grade.

Edit to add:

Thanks for the description of the Ty 1 & 2. I guess I have a Ty 2.

tradedollarnut

Mine is a type I reverse [berry under the eagle's claw]. It is the Amon Carter specimen. Keoj is writing a book on trade dollar varieties, including population estimates:

kaz

Thanks, guys. I'll have to get on the list for a copy of keoj's book.

tradedollarnut

kaz

Nice chops! and the A. Carter-- (clunk as jaw hits floor....)!

TomB

Mine is a type I reverse, sorry. Oddly enough, of the few details remaining on the reverse, which were not obliterated from the 30+ obverse chops, the last C of the mintmark and the berry under the claw remain.

speety

Bruce, can you please inform me when you plan to sell and I will buy the cheapest Amon Carter pedigreed coin you own... as it is likely the only one i could afford... but D@MN do I love the "Carter look". P.S. Make sure I know if the stacks 73-cc hits the market again.

HoledandCreative

My 75-CC is Type 1 Reverse.

kaz

Isn't that a Colorado mintmark? (small c, large O)?

kaz

Perhaps folks could post, as some have already done, their coins if they have a type-1 reverse as well- we can develop an informal CU population estimate!

crypto79

I have two one is nice PCGS 45 and the other is a holed vg8. From what I have read the 75cc type2 is about the 3rd rarest marriage(not die pairs) behind the 75p 1/1(most were melted in the turn in) and 76p 2/2 (most were sent to china) but it may be the rarest of all the trade dollars with chopmarks with 2 confirmed that I know of. Also of note the top known pop is 1 PCGS MS63 and the coin is most offten found in the vf-xf range but AU's are out there. I think they mostly stayed on the West Coast as most of the ones that come for sale are from west cost dealers, BrokenCC has a nice NGC 58 for sale and a subpar 45. I looked for one for over a year then about a dozen came to market at the end of the boom. As for ratio I would say it is at least 25 to 1 after looking at them for years.

kaz

Thanks, crypto! According to Bowers, the 2nd rarest chopmarked trade dollar after the 1878-cc. Interesting, but not surprising, that more are showing up "post-boom." I don't believe any of the tpg's list the types on the label, so this may present an opportunity for those collecting TD's by type.

tradedollarnut

it may be the rarest of all the trade dollars with chopmarks with 2 confirmed that I know of.

I used to have a chopmarked one, will have to look to see if I still have it.

crypto79

<< <i>Thanks, crypto! According to Bowers, the 2nd rarest chopmarked trade dollar after the 1878-cc. Interesting, but not surprising, that more are showing up "post-boom." I don't believe any of the tpg's list the types on the label, so this may present an opportunity for those collecting TD's by type. >>



I feel the who series is an opportunity for collectors, as they are classic large, rare, completable with lots of history and varitys that can be bought for type prices. I wouldn't call the 78cc rare as much as very scarce, to me it comes up about the same as the 73cc at market. It can be had any day of the week more or less for a price but the trick is finding a nice one. Bowers is just wrong about the 75cc 1/2 being 2nd, part of the problem is the TPG don't label(except for NCS) them so a count is hard. I had a much harder time finding a 76cc 1/1 non-ddr

"I used to have a chopmarked one, will have to look to see if I still have it."

I was at Julian's store and he had an old coin book from the 50's that used a 75cc 1/2 Choice UNC w/ rev chops as its plate coin. It was a amazing coin but I would be cautious as it was blast white and back then people like to add chops.

kaz

Thanks for the additional info. I have another 1875-cc somewhere, can't recall the revere, but it's chopped. One of those white headlight coins I bought before the concept of 'original surfaces' had been absorbed.

TomB

Here is my type I with chops. I apologize to those who might be tired of seeing this coin as I have posted it three or four times in the past-

kaz

That one sure made the rounds- a well travelled lady-- CC to the Orient and who knows where-- and still IDable as a T-I reverse. I love it- thanks for the pics.

DDR

Crypto: If there are only two confirmed 75-CC I/II chopmarked Trade dollars, I have one of them. You can view it in my registry set. I suspect, though, that there are more than two out there. As for the quote below:

From what I have read the 75cc type2 is about the 3rd rarest marriage(not die pairs) behind the 75p 1/1(most were melted in the turn in) and 76p 2/2 (most were sent to china) but it may be the rarest of all the trade dollars with chopmarks with 2 confirmed that I know of.

<< <i>Text >>



Why do you say that most of the 75 P I/I's were turned in? Why not the I/II's? And why do you think the 76 P II/II's were sent to China (implying the I/I's and II's were more likely to remain in the U.S.)? I think that very few of any of the three die combinations were sent to China. Same for the 75 P's for that matter.

Just curious... I've been trying to figure some of these things out myself!

keoj

First of all, the 75-CC I/II is quite rare. In my analysis, the I/II for this date is around 5% of the 75-CC population (ie ~95% are I/I and ~5% are I/II). There were actually 2 reverse dies used. The census for MS coins is very small.......I know of a 63, a 62, 2 61's and a couple 60 coins. A MS coin is a rare coin indeed.

Crypto is correct, the other rare type I/II obverse and reverse Business Strike combinations are a 75 Type I/I and a 76 II/II. In both cases, I would say that few were minted rather than they were shipped to the orient. The P mint coins stayed in the east to some extent...the CC and S coins were used for trade. (That's just an educated guess). As a result chopped P mint coins are pretty rare.

There are other die varieties that are quite rare as well. As TDN stated, it's time for me to get off my tail and write a book.

keoj

kaz

Thanks, keoj, looks like this obv/rev pairing is even more scarce than I thought. Put me down for an advance copy of the book, please!

MsMorrisine

first I've seen of it and glad to see it.

I'll have to get my kid to see if he can translate some of those characters.




<< <i>Here is my type I with chops. I apologize to those who might be tired of seeing this coin as I have posted it three or four times in the past-

>>

DDR

Thanks, Keoj. I suspect too that certain die combinations are rare simply because not many were minted in the first place.

Now what would be interesting would be if there were certain die combinations that were common chopmarked, but rare unchopped or the other way around. They you could say, for example, the I/I's were mostly shipped to China while the I/II's, minted at another time, circulated domestically. (Or whatever, that was just an example.)

Is your census turning up anything interesting like that?

keoj

DDR....that's a good question. I looked at the census data and saw that the percentage of chopped 1875-CC Type I/II's is roughly the same as the total percentage reported. That is, chopped 1875-CC's I/II are not extraordinarly rare beyond unchopped ones. One has to remember that a census among advanced collectors is not representative of true populations BUT they seem to be somewhat avialable.

keoj

tradedollarnut

Speaking of rare die combinations, have you noticed that the extremely rare 76-S double die obverse is paired with a micro s mintmark reverse - and the same reverse die is also paired with a normal obverse?

crypto79

My points is based off of what i have read and seen. I do not claim to be 100% correct. Every 76p 2/2 I have seen has been chopmarked,and I have never seen a 75 1/1 that was. Trades in the later years were often made to order it goes to my train of thought that the 76 2/2 were made for export. My guess is since only unchopped trade could be turned in during the government exchange when they were demonetized and it does seem that the P mint coins stayed in country more they were traded in at a higher rate. Coupled with lower mintage's, a few bags thrown in the smelter would explain rarity issues for some issues.

crypto79

<< <i>Speaking of rare die combinations, have you noticed that the extremely rare 76-S double die obverse is paired with a micro s mintmark reverse - and the same reverse die is also paired with a normal obverse? >>



I have noticed that there are two different obv not counting the DDO, a type one and a type two for the mirco s type 2 rev