Barber Quarter question

coolest

I have been collecting Barber quarters for about 2 years.

The price guides tell me that the 1896-S costs 10x the price of the 1897-S in all grades.

Now my (short) experience is that, it is just as hard to find a nice 97-S as a nice 96-S.

Am I way wrong?

illini420

not sure about it being just as hard to find, but it's really all about supply and demand. the 1896-S is one of the key dates that a lot of folks want to buy. The 1897-S is likely only going to be purchased by someone seeking a full set (a much smaller group).

and when you say a "nice" one, if you're talking about a PCGS graded MS65+, there are several dates that are harder to find in gem than the keys. A quick look at the population reports will show you that.

Walkerguy21D

Sounds like an interesting observation, and one I'm not qualified to comment on. However, you can pose your observation on the Barber coin MegaThread on the forum. This will put you in contact with some of the most knowledeable Barber coin collectors in the country.
You may also want to visit the website of the Barber collectors society - they offer pop reports from their surveys for all dates/grades by demonination.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=551892

http://www.barbercoins.org/

Mowgli

<< <i>I have been collecting Barber quarters for about 2 years.

The price guides tell me that the 1896-S costs 10x the price of the 1897-S in all grades.

Now my (short) experience is that, it is just as hard to find a nice 97-S as a nice 96-S.

Am I way wrong? >>



They are both rarity 6's in XF/AU. So, in my opinion, you are not wrong. However, you know that rarity and price do not always track each other. Lots of low mintage coins sell for less than coins with much higher mintages (and survival rates) depending on the collector base. BTW - it did take me longer to find a 97-S than a 96-S.

Billet7

I agree with you. I actually had a much harder time finding the 1897-S than the 1896-S. If reality, the latter one was cake to find and I got a fantastic price on it...the former took a very long time.

I think it has more to do with money. The 1896-S trades for a bunch of money, so dealers strive to have it in stock. People who have an 1897-S are less concerned with getting their money out of it, so you don't see them listed on websites and in store stock unless they are higher grade. Plus, I think it is just a tough coin. The 1901-O is tough too as is the 1892-S IMHO (easier in grades of AU strangely.)

rld14

I've been working on a set of VF barber halves recently.. there's price guide, and then there's what it takes to buy said coins. The two numbers can be VERY different.

DIMEMAN

>>not sure about it being just as hard to find, but it's really all about supply and demand. the 1896-S is one of the key dates that a lot of folks want to buy. The 1897-S is likely only going to be purchased by someone seeking a full set (a much smaller group).<<

I would think just the opposite. Only the people collecting the whole set would be buying the 96-S. Type collectors would be buying common coins not the 96 or 97 s's. A P mint of either would be nice in high grade.

coolest

I think I will start making a greater effort to find problem-free 97-S quarters.

TomB

The 1897-S quarter is far tougher to find with meat and in apparently original condition than any price guide will lead you to believe.

shorecoll

Dimeman, there are investors who hoard keys, making it tougher on people doing sets.

illini420

<< <i>>>not sure about it being just as hard to find, but it's really all about supply and demand. the 1896-S is one of the key dates that a lot of folks want to buy. The 1897-S is likely only going to be purchased by someone seeking a full set (a much smaller group).<<

I would think just the opposite. Only the people collecting the whole set would be buying the 96-S. Type collectors would be buying common coins not the 96 or 97 s's. A P mint of either would be nice in high grade. >>



In addition to the folks that hoard and focus on various key dates, a type collector may not care which date they are buying of a series. So while it's true that there are type collectors that may end up with a '96-P, a '16-D, or even a '97-S because that's what they happen to find available and worthy of their set at the time, there are dozens of other dates (many of which are more common) they may end up with as well. Also, in looking at the pop reports, there seem to be way more key dates in holders than the semi-key and common dates, especially in circulated grades. That may be a factor in coins like the '97-S seeming more difficult than they really are???

coolest

<< <i>Dimeman, there are investors who hoard keys, making it tougher on people doing sets. >>



If the "keys" are being hoarded then then certainly the 97-S would be more readily available than the 96-S?

MFH

I was able to locate an 1896-S Quarter faster in PCGS 53 than I was able to locate
my current 1897-S in PCGS 55.

I have never seen an AU 58 of either date for sale - although I occasionally see
more MS 1897-S's than I see the 96-S's.

BAYOUBENGAL

Barber Quarters are my favorite, been collecting for 10 years (have #3 Barber at NGC), and while 97-s is a tough find in any grade, I know of two hoards of 1896-s' (think 25-50 each) that make it tougher. Also, as others have opined, POP reports are tough to trust given resubmission etc. Both are tough dates, but the price of 1896-s is and IMHO will always be much higher- and even now is too low. Try finding a few nice G-4, 6, 8's in 96-s...it is next to impossible. And in 65 or 66, tougher than 13-s or 01-s.

MFH

<< <i>Barber Quarters are my favorite, been collecting for 10 years (have #3 Barber at NGC), and while 97-s is a tough find in any grade, I know of two hoards of 1896-s' (think 25-50 each) that make it tougher. Also, as others have opined, POP reports are tough to trust given resubmission etc. Both are tough dates, but the price of 1896-s is and IMHO will always be much higher- and even now is too low. Try finding a few nice G-4, 6, 8's in 96-s...it is next to impossible. And in 65 or 66, tougher than 13-s or 01-s. >>



I for one would LOVE to see your set's images !!!

The 01-S in 67 and a 13-S in 68 !! OMG !!!

BAYOUBENGAL

Thanks MFH, just learning to use scanner (I am an IT idiot) and will get them up in future posting, the 13-s in 68 is my favorite, but also have a 1896-s in 65 that I have long thought is a 66 and the 01-s in 67 is nice...love to get the boards thoughts on my whole set....and right on cue for this thread, I have yet to find a 1897-s in 65+ that I like, can afford.

Sunnywood

We have had various threads here over the years about the relative rarity of Barber quarter dates, both in MS and in circulated grades. One of the conclusions I reached a long time ago was that the 1897-S and 1898-S were underrated. I consider the 1898-S to be the most underrated date in the series in all grades, and the 1897-S not far behind.

Looking at certified pops in circulated grades can be misleading. The three key dates ('96-S, '01-S, '13-S) achieved their status because they are the rarest dates on an absolute basis, particularly in unsorted bags of circulated coins. Once a date is found to be rare in all grades, and is priced accordingly, it becomes a notorious key. As a result, whatever circulated pieces do exist in undamaged condition all find their way to the grading services. Thus the certified pops for a key date like '96-S begin to rise in the circulated grades. The result is that there may be more circulated '96-S in PCGS holders than other more common dates. This is just intended to be an illustration as to why you can't go by the pop reports.

Edited to add: the '97-S and '98-S were also the last two dates that I located in gem to complete my set.

BAYOUBENGAL

Sunnywood- you are the man....I am trying to do what you did and have been willing to pay up for a 97-s, 98-s for a long time, but have not found a good one. Having said this, 1896-s in nice 65 aint easy either.

tombr

Sunnywood---------your are dead on regarding the populaton reports. The same line of thought applys to mid grade halves as well. The "big key", the 04-S, is seen more often than the 04-O, 05-P, 05-O, and 10-P just name a few. The so called common dates either reside in Dansco albums in raw state, or they simply do not exist in large numbers. This goes for the quarters as well as halves. I suspect the same can be true for the dimes, but I have not dabbled in them. My eyes are getting old and the little writing is hard to see

JMHO

Tom

Sunnywood

Bayou, thanks !! Keep your eyes open this summer. My friend Dr. Steve Duckor is probably selling his Barber quarters at the Heritage ANA auction. Also, a group of duplicates will be sold by the collector who bought my set. I'm not sure how those will be sold ... but between these two sellers, there will be a nice crop of BQ's on the market. Good luck with your set !!

tombr, I now have to put on reading glasses to look at my coins

MFH

Sunnywood - I had no idea that Dr. Duckor would be selling his Quarters so quickly -
I thought he'd sell off his complete set of Halves first . That news surprises me.

Glenn Holsonbake's set of Halves hits the auction block in the B&M ANA sale.

Regarding the 1898-S Quarter - I have not been fortunate enough to locate one
in a mid range MS grade [ your example was sold en-bloc with the balance of
your collection ] I have a nice AU 53 in my Quarter collection but want a finer
one for my date set. I bought Dale's 1898-S Half at FUN - and its stunning. I also
picked up a beautiful 1898-P Quarter in 66 at FUN as well.

BTW, Sunnywood - again - I love your 97-S Quarter. Hope that the collector
who bought your set sells off his duplicate 97-S & 98-S - I am looking forward
to seeing what the ANA sales bring out of hiding.

Sunnywood

Mike, there will be a toned 1898-S PCGS MS64 from another source in Heritage's ANA sale. I don't recall what Duckor has for his 1897-S or 1898-S, those might be dates he was still missing. (His set is not quite complete.) I don't think there is an 1897-S or 1898-S among the duplicates being sold by the guy who bought my set. But anyway keep an eye on the Heritage ANA sale.

Duckor is committed to keeping his Barber halves, which he has worked on for twenty years or so. He actually thought the quarters were "too easy" !! But it was made easier for him because of Dale Friend's set being broken up, and then Duckor got quite a few duplicates from me (many of which PCGS promptly upgraded for him !!!).