NewP Tonight - 1874 Trade - Grade Opinions Please

78750Aggie

I picked this up tonight and pleased with the transaction. The weight is 27.2 grams. I have this coin graded at VF-30 to 35, your thoughts please.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Nice coin! I like it.

tradedollarnut

Hmmmm.

Why anyone would buy a raw trade dollar this day and age is beyond me!

78750Aggie

tradedollarnut, do you think this is fake?

kaz

Looks genuine and with original surfaces. I agree with high end vf-- a nice purchase!

tradedollarnut

<< <i>tradedollarnut, do you think this is fake? >>



I'm on the fence - not sure. The strike quality bothers me - some things are sharp and some are soft and that's worrysome. For instance - the coin has XF details but the stars are all soft. That's unusual for this date. And the outside legends on the reverse [UNITED STATES OF AMERICA] seem unevenly impressed. There is no period after FINE, which is fine for some dates but not others. There's just enough to bother me that I'm not sure.

And then there's the field under liberty's arm - looks like it could be smoothed. can't tell for sure.

Placid

Lettering seems off. Like the F in fine. I would definatly want the seller to agree to give a refund if its determined not genuine.

Buffalode

Please excuse me if this an obvious question but I am new to all this and just trying to learn. Does it seem like the amount of wear on the obverse matches the wear on the reverse? To me they look like they are worn a little different.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>Please excuse me if this an obvious question but I am new to all this and just trying to learn. Does it seem like the amount of wear on the obverse matches the wear on the reverse? To me they look like they are worn a little different. >>



There's actually not that much wear on the coin as most of what appears to be wear is weak strike - that's a possibility for why the reverse legends are oddly struck. The stars, Liberty's head, the eagle's wing and leg are all strike. Liberty's thigh and breast are the highpoints and there's little wear there - the coin has XF wear.

I'm just not sure about it because of the odd strike and the missing period after FINE.

stinkinlincoln

I hate saying this, but it looks fake, IMHO. Im no expert with trade $1's, but this just looks fishy to me.

Buffalode

<< <i>

There's actually not that much wear on the coin as most of what appears to be wear is weak strike - that's a possibility for why the reverse legends are oddly struck. The stars, Liberty's head, the eagle's wing and leg are all strike. Liberty's thigh and breast are the highpoints and there's little wear there - the coin has XF wear.

I'm just not sure about it because of the odd strike and the missing period after FINE. >>

Thanks, I appreciate the explanation.

Placid

<< <i>I'm just not sure about it because of the odd strike and the missing period after FINE. >>



There are good number of certified 1874-p trade dollars in the Heritage archives with no period after fine so I think that part is ok.

lkenefic

I thought XF with maybe an old cleaning... I see what TDN means about strike though... I'll just sit back and learn

kaz

per Bowers: " Some have weakness ... on Miss Liberty's head and at stars 6 and 7, on some the weakness extends to stars left and right of these."
the weakness on the bird's sinister leg is typical. I always look at the dentils and rims- they look right to me on this coin- but any time I buy one raw I carefully inspect under 10x for pits in the dentils, sand-like deposits in the recesses, and of course the reeded edge. there are some mighty good fakes out there- usually the cc issues, but all are potentially suspect.

jesbroken

TDN,
I searched a couple of pages of Heritage and found the 1874 P Trade $ both with and without dots on more than one coin. For example:
1) PCGS MS64 # 5661129 with dot after fine.
2) NCS AU details #5046550-019 without dot after fine.
Not to say they did not certify a bogus $.
I did not see in my search any T$'s wth the uneven outer United States of America though. Great eye TDN.
I wish someone would write a reference booklet regarding the Trade $'s---hmmmm! maybe TDN would do so.
Jim

123cents

I think it is legit.

tradedollarnut

Some dates have the missing period and some don't. Keoj is the ultimate variety guy for trade dollars - I do believe he's writing a book as we speak.

jesbroken

Just to show my ignorance and great need of a book, I just found that some 1974 S T$ have a period after grains. Did not know that.
How could I contact Keoj in regards to this book upon completion, TDN.
Thank you,
Jim

78750Aggie

Thanks for your inputs and reference work.

I mentioned in a PM to Tradedollarnut, who has been very helpful, I was able to hold this coin in hand, weigh, and inspected limited diagnostics as mentioned in The Official Guide to COIN GRADING AND COUNTERFEIT DETECTION book by David Bowers and Scott A. Travers. BTW: there was a period after the 'A' in his initial

jesbroken, thanks for the searching. I attempted to do this on various sites, but I need to get a new login password (forgot mine) and plan to do this today.

I think what I'm hearing is: if the coin is a real Trade Dollar it should grade VF35 to XF40. This was part of a collection I bought from a friends grandmother and she says she obtained the coin in the early 1950's from her father. We discussed the possibility of a fake and I'm sure they would return the purchase price if not legit. There was one coin I didn't buy, an 1880 Half Eagle (XF-40) that I strongly recommended they keep in the family. They were certain they wanted to sell the coin, but I asked them to discuss and let me know Saturday.

Bottom Line: They were happy with the purchase price and I was too. Now I get to spend the weekend going through new coins. I'll post pictures of any interesting finds.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>Just to show my ignorance and great need of a book, I just found that some 1974 S T$ have a period after grains. Did not know that.
How could I contact Keoj in regards to this book upon completion, TDN.
Thank you,
Jim >>



you can PM him here

tradedollarnut

This was part of a collection I bought from a friends grandmother and she says she obtained the coin in the early 1950's from her father.

Based on this valid information, it's probably real as the good quality fakes have appeared in this decade. I just caution everyone to not buy raw trade dollars unless you know exactly what you're doing as there are fakes that can't be told from sight even by experts.

jesbroken

Thanks, TDN, I pm'd him today. BTW I went to your website and viewed the Legend Collection of Trade $'s--OMG what beautiful coins. I enjoyed your website, thank you for the opportunity to see such a collection.
Jim

tradedollarnut

You're welcome, Jim. My pleasure!