Can we design the perfect round or bar?

Weiss

cinman14's Apmex thread got me just riled up enough to think about this. Why is it so hard for private minters, refiners, etc. to manufacture a round or bar that is universal, has integrity, and displays trustworthiness in the product?

I realize there are limitations to manufacturing, at least if cost is an object--which it should be with metals. But for the sake of discussion, let's look at a one ounce .999 silver round. Maybe if enough people chip in we can design a theoretical round that would appeal to all of us. Feel free to add to the list.

Maybe it's best to start with what I don't like:

*a recycled coin design. Especially a US coin design. A copy of an original is a copy, and that's opposite of "integrity" right off the bat. Silver US coin designs are without exception (SAEs excluded) NOT a full ounce. And a coin design is a bad idea for something manufactured and sold specifically to be .999 pure silver, since US coins are only 90% pure. I can't think of a worse design for something that is manufactured specifically to be 99.9% pure and precisely 1 ounce than something that is 90% pure and less than an ounce. It's just asinine.

*Goofy or silly. That's what Saturday mornings are for when you're 8. Metals are serious, the design should be serious.

*Patriotic designs. A round should be universal. I love America, so I fly the flag. But the rest of the world's opinion of us shifts with each election. I buy metals to protect myself from political uncertainty. Why hamstring me by producing a product potentially unwanted by better than half the planet depending on the ebb and flow of politics? If the manufacturer is in the US, that's fine. But I don't want an Italian flag, a Chinese leader, or the Mexican national anthem on my silver.


What I do like:

*The METAL clearly stated. I want it to say "SILVER", "ARGENT", Ag, etc. We touched on this with the JM(?) poured bars. If it's silver, it should say silver.

*The PURITY clearly stated. It should say .999 or better still, .9999. There are too many Franklin Mint and the like pieces in the round universe that are sterling (92.5%) or not silver/pure at all. We want to distance ourselves from any of that bottom tier stuff or even the hint of it. No mistake: .999 or .9999

*The MANUFACTURER clearly stated. You don't have to be PAMP or Credit, but give us a name, a location, SOMETHING that will let us google your history and your company. How can we have any faith in the purity and content of your round if you won't even say who you are?

*A DATE. How about even a full date? 08-10-09 would be kind of cool. As specific as possible. More information the better. A full Day/Month/Year would put you 365 times more specific than a simple year date. I like specific, which leads to...

*A SERIAL NUMBER--with an online registry so you can look up the round online. Know when it was made, where it was made, hell, even include information about the shop foreman or chief assayer. What could show more faith in your own product that telling the world who was in charge of its proper weight and assay at the exact moment of its manufacture, and thereby forcing their hand to be as accurate and trustworthy as possible? It's like those "How am I driving" signs on the backs of trucks. Those aren't for us, they're to force the driver to be conservative and trustworthy. Same idea here. Integrity builds trust, trust builds value.

And maybe...
*reeded or lettered edge. This was started a thousand years ago to stop the shaving of coins. While it's low on the list of druthers, I think it's a great idea. I understand the philharmonics have kind of a mirrored edge. That's neat, too.


Anyone else have thoughts? Ideas, likes, dislikes?

Meltdown

Maybe one with your face on it?

Edited to add a little seriousness...
I like the reeded edge idea, or better yet maybe some edge lettering with the metal purity & weight specifications.

cars

Cool idea....How about a bar tho? For some reason I don't like rounds so much. You hit all the major points. I like simple designs, Bars or rounds. Some of my favs are very simple. No birds, Cartoons, buildings, Famous people ect.. Just numbers & letters:

rgCoinGuy

Here is my contribution. A new bust round.

FistFullOfDollars

+1 Bust round

Weiss

Cars, that first one is really good, at least in terms of the information displayed. It's a bit text-heavy, and I don't care for the font (kinda 1970s looking). But the ideas are mostly there.

They didn't take advantage of the other side to equally distribute the information, though, so it looks awfully cluttered. I might equally distribute the elements on the front and back.

Now that I'm looking at it, I might like to see the weight expressed in a couple of other ways, too. The 19th century US trade dollar and period patterns had that kind of an idea.

goingbroke

<< <i>Cool idea....How about a bar tho? For some reason I don't like rounds so much. You hit all the major points. I like simple designs, Bars or rounds. Some of my favs are very simple. No birds, Cartoons, buildings, Famous people ect.. Just numbers & letters:

>>

BOY! I would pat 10 times spot for that round!

Meltdown

Here are a couple of my favorites.
The comstock round is simple, but cool.

This design is timeless, tasteful and to the point.

This one might get me a timeout.

cars

<< <i> BOY! I would pat 10 times spot for that round! >>


I'd sell it for 2.5x spot lol. Actually I have it listed on eBay now if interested.

Weiss

Mattew...er, Meltdown's post illustrates what I don't like--especially that seated round. It's a coin design and it doesn't indicate the maker.

I've been searching through rounds for sale on eBay, and I'm amazed at how many are exactly what I don't personally like: there are state quarter rounds for virtually every state. There are Indian warrior rounds, twin towers rounds, zodiac, prayer, etc.

I'm fond of the scale motif. It conveys meaning to an international audience without the language barrier. It's been around for decades, and was on state issued coinage before that. Some that I do think have a good universal design, if not quite all of the elements that I'd like to see:

cars

I don't have many round that are 1 oz but here are a few of mine that aren't too cartoonish or replica's of something:

Cladiator

Below are my two favorite bar designs. Simple, straight forward, to the point.

Weiss

I believe the JM was the favorite design in that recent poll we did. And I agree, I think that JM style is simply the best bullion design there is.

It's got pretty much everything I could want:
*Maker's name
*Weight (including the "troy" indication)
*Purity
*Metal
*Serial Number

It's missing a date and the weight in any other measures, but it's also missing the things I dislike most: A culturally specific design--especially one that's goofy, recycled, or patriotic.

Did JM ever make rounds with the same look/style as their bars?

cars

I have a few different JM rounds I'll post later on.

SportsModerator

Weiss has a pretty good idea here (as much as it kills me to give that rascal any credit )

I looked into something like this a few years ago, and the cost per die was something like a grand, and striking cost, I forget.

If a group of us got together for a run, I'd be willing to chip in a few bucks and chuck in 500+ oz of .999 for striking. I do remember that costs came considerably down with enough metal.

ebaytrader

<< <i>Weiss has a pretty good idea here (as much as it kills me to give that rascal any credit )

I looked into something like this a few years ago, and the cost per die was something like a grand, and striking cost, I forget.

If a group of us got together for a run, I'd be willing to chip in a few bucks and chuck in 500+ oz of .999 for striking. I do remember that costs came considerably down with enough metal. >>



The problem with most reliable minters is that they're booked solid.

Silvertowne Mint among others.

cars

OPM will mint bars/rounds...Maybe gecko will expand his operation to include minted bars/rounds

NumbersUsacom

Personally I really like the bars or rounds that combine a bar with a Coin theme, or coin like theme. And rounds that have a actual U.S. or world coin theme.

These are a few of what I'm trying to convey.