the right stuff will bring the right price

crypto79

People talk about surpressed prices but I just don't see it. The boards talk about taking a beating on EBay but I have yet to see well listed original coins go for soft prices. Hell to bring this one home I had to pay 20% more than high-end retail. either that or wait another year or so for this die pair to come around again. My point is for those who think prices are soft due to the market I would say it is time to look at what is bringing the soft prices and stop fixating on the prices themselfs.



1876 CC

doh

Agreed.

grip

Im not a collector of the series.So I will ask a dumb question.Is that rust (looks like rust)on the reverse related to
the die pair?

Al

roadrunner

Lack of available dollars (ie liquidity) has put a damper on the more expensive choice/gem type coins. There is no doubt that this is the case. Only rarely is the "right stuff" bringing all the money. This may or may not have an effect on collector-only markets where some items are in short supply. I've had recent experiences with no problem top pop gem-CAC coins getting offers of 70% of what I was offered in the summer of 2008. Prices at auction reconfirmed this. It doesn't matter that retailers are still asking 90-100% for those same coins if they are only willing to buy them at 30% discounts to their 2008 offers. A number of larger dealers who carry this material can't even become legitimate buyers again until they unload some of their own inventories.

roadrunner

ziggy29

I don't believe I've seen too many people here stating the contrary. In fact, as more and more of the "right stuff" coins go into hiding, the more the demand will be for those which come up for sale/auction.

I suppose it's possible for the "cream of the crop" coins with uncommonly strong eye appeal and some level of rarity to hit a bear market, but it's been an awful long time since we've seen one. Demand for those coins just doesn't seem to die.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Fully original Carson City coins certified by PCGS in one of the ideal collector grades always sell well, and are not good indicators for the health of the market.

CoinRaritiesOnline

This isn't on topic, but I don't recall ever seeing a "CC" mintmark that is as widely spaced as on the reverse of that coin.

Has anyone else?



That is amazing!

Bear

Other then the specific example cited, which is an anomaly,

even good stuff is showing weakness and a downward bias

in values. The coin market has not crashed, but it is showing

signs of softness. How ever, long time collectors must always

take the long term view of things.

123cents

I was tracking that coin. I'm glad your the one that won it.

JMW

Quality never comes cheap, and there is still a lot of competition out there for those top coins, no matter what grade you are looking at.

PerryHall

<< <i>Other then the specific example cited, which is an anomaly,

even good stuff is showing weakness and a downward bias

in values. The coin market has not crashed, but it is showing

signs of softness. How ever, long time collectors must always

take the long term view of things. >>



Agree. Since when does a single coin transaction act as a market indicator?

crypto79

<< <i>Lack of available dollars (ie liquidity) has put a damper on the more expensive choice/gem type coins. There is no doubt that this is the case. Only rarely is the "right stuff" bringing all the money. This may or may not have an effect on collector-only markets where some items are in short supply. I've had recent experiences with no problem top pop gem-CAC coins getting offers of 70% of what I was offered in the summer of 2008. Prices at auction reconfirmed this. It doesn't matter that retailers are still asking 90-100% for those same coins if they are only willing to buy them at 30% discounts to their 2008 offers. A number of larger dealers who carry this material can't even become legitimate buyers again until they unload some of their own inventories.

roadrunner >>



I have always thought that those were more investor coins or high end collector and not really "the coin market". It is a very small niche(not price% wise but people wise) and I would think(although I have nothing to back it up with) that a lot of the same behaivoir flipping and buying houses, stock, metels and what not and when there confidience was rocked by the market collapse and they stop throwing money at coins. Where true collector coins in true(afforable) collector grades that were a seprate market and are still there, although they saw some inflation from the crazy gem prices.



Yes that is a very wide cc. Trade dollars used very wide spacing on some dies from 73-76 the 76 being the most common but still pretty scarce.

RedTiger

A sample size of one means nothing, especially when a person just bought the coin and has a lot invested emotionally and financially.

I looked up the 1876 CC Trade $1 in the PCGS auction archive. There are six examples listed within the last few years in the same grade range and all sold for a lot less money. There is also the anomaly of the two entries being the same lot number in the same auction, with different prices, so it might only be four coins worth of price history.

PCGS auction price history
EF40 $638.00 Mar-2009 Bowers & Merena 2009 ANA 1239 PCGS
EF40 $633.00 Jun-2006 Heritage LB Signature Sale #408 2104 ANACS
EF45 $546.00 Nov-2006 Heritage Dallas Coin Auction 1134 PCGS
EF45 $546.25 Nov-2006 Heritage Dallas Coin Auction 1134 PCGS
EF45 $747.50 May-2008 Heritage LB Signature Sale #1108 970 ANACS
EF45 $748.00 May-2008 Heritage LB Signature Sale #1108 970 ANACS

For the benefit of the many novices reading along, I will contrast and compare with some thumbnail images of some of the coins. (I don't know if the Heritage images will turn into Red-Xs after I leave, but they are showing on the preview.) Was the Ebay coin worth the money? Only the winning bidder or potential buyer can say for sure, though all may have an opinion. Readers can make up their own minds.

Ebay coin bought by original poster $1105 hammer PCGS XF40


Heritage #1 $747 hammer



Heritage #2 $1035 hammer


Heritage #3 $546 hammer

crypto79

I am familiar with those coins and I would state that first of all those are a few years old and 2nd those are not really the same coin or the same state of preservation. All of those have been dipped and I would not agree with final grade with 2 of them. The anacs 45 is really a cleaned AU50 with PL flash net graded for dipping. the other two look similar but haven't held them in hand. They are all type 2 rev as well.
These come up so rarely I go off of retail. LRC just sold a PCGS 40 for 950$ with in a couple of days and JJ teaparty sold a VF35 same day style for 500$. Dick Osbourn has an OK 40 for $850 but none of those were the same rev and I had been looking for a choice type 1 Non-DDR for awhile to complete my CC trade set by types and errors. Some times you have to jump.
The who point is it seems that anytime I go to get a collector type coin I don't see much if any savings. I collect 183*s branch mint coins and cc trade dollars, WW2 off metal coinage, and peace dollars. Anything that is decent and not top pop is still bringing strong money. VAMs seem to be weak

yellowjacket

Be careful when quoting "price histories" and "Auction Archives." You know as well as I, that no two coins are the same; even same grade, same TPG company. The subject here is quality, high end material bringing strong prices relative to other mediocre coins. My current experience is I must pay strong money to take home a nice coin. Period.

This has been shared many times, by many people on these boards.

I always hope I will find that special piece at a bargain price; however, it rarely, if ever happens. Just too many others with a fine eye for quality and enough money to compete in this marketplace.

Garrow

Res

<< <i>Im not a collector of the series.So I will ask a dumb question.Is that rust (looks like rust)on the reverse related to
the die pair?

Al >>



Silver doesn't rust. You need iron to rust.

grip

<< <i>

<< <i>Im not a collector of the series.So I will ask a dumb question.Is that rust (looks like rust)on the reverse related to
the die pair?

Al >>



Silver doesn't rust. You need iron to rust. >>



I should have been more precise.......rusted dies.

RedTiger

<< <i>Be careful when quoting "price histories" and "Auction Archives." You know as well as I, that no two coins are the same; even same grade, same TPG company. The subject here is quality, high end material bringing strong prices relative to other mediocre coins. My current experience is I must pay strong money to take home a nice coin. Period.

This has been shared many times, by many people on these boards.

I always hope I will find that special piece at a bargain price; however, it rarely, if ever happens. Just too many others with a fine eye for quality and enough money to compete in this marketplace.

Garrow >>



I did not make any judgments, just presenting the information. My personal preference is to pay average money for average coins. Others obviously have different preferences, hopefully a sharper eye, more experience. For those that prefer to pay top dollar at auction or from top dealers, I say more power to them, enjoy the hobby.

What puzzles me, is the relatively large group of collectors that can't grade, much less determine quality within a grade, and can't tell a original coin if it bit them. Yet, they still say they are playing the quality game. Based on what? That group of know-nothings is larger than most would admit.

DDR

crypto 79: Congrats on that purchase. I know how difficult to find a type I non-DDR reverse is on an 1876-CC Trade dollar.

RedTiger: A few Trade dollar specialists know how difficult that particular reverse die is to find. Hence the reason that particular coin was bid so high. An 1876-CC with a type II reverse in exactly the same condition in exactly the same holder would have gone for considerably less.

crypto79

flaged for later review