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Beware of this 1933 Goudey Gehrig PSA 7

On eBay. I had this card for several days before returning to the seller. I made the mistake of purchasing off eBay which almost cost me a lot of $. If you're thinking of bidding, please DO NOT! Look very closely, it's a fake flip and the card is most likely a reprint. What tipped me off is seal on the top of the holder is breached and has some frosting.

Linky on eBay

Here are the closeups I took for the few days it was in my possession. Be safe!

image

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Comments

  • wow

    and he left positive feedback on an 8k card without receiving it first image
  • OAKESY25OAKESY25 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭
    that guy that thinks he got a great deal on a 52 mantle is gonna be bumming
  • csmtampacsmtampa Posts: 1,828
    I wonder if they guy who bought his 52 Mantle received his card yet.....
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭

    It appears to be the Craig's List items in play.

    El Cajon was one of the first "local pickup" hot spots.


    //////////////////////////////////////////////

    It is somewhat important to note that NOT everybody
    who is reselling this garbage EVEN knows there is
    anything wrong with it.

    But, most resellers do KNOW that they got screwed and
    are just passing on the hot spud.



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I wonder if they guy who bought his 52 Mantle received his card yet..... >>



    I should ask him. He's just south of Seattle and happens to be the seller who is trying to unload his spooned out '52 Mantle PSA 3
    image


  • corvette1340corvette1340 Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭
    I hope people like this that sell that fake crap get swine flu.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    I reported the item to eBay as a counterfeit item. Not sure if they'll act on it.
    image


  • ga5150ga5150 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭
    Since I'm fairly new to the PSA collecting, what do you mean by fake flip? Is this where the guy took a real NM 7 card and took it out and replaced it with a reprint or lesser grade card? I understand the breach and frosting and know to look for that.

    Thanks,

    Rodney
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    The seller is a super nice guy
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Since I'm fairly new to the PSA collecting, what do you mean by fake flip? Is this where the guy took a real NM 7 card and took it out and replaced it with a reprint or lesser grade card? I understand the breach and frosting and know to look for that.

    Thanks,

    Rodney >>



    A few problems with the card. First, the holder has been breached. Second, the flip labeling has slightly different font than a regular PSA slip. Third, when using a loupe, you could see the back of the card was not authentic.

    This type of fraud is apparently perpetrated regularly on Craigslist and is known on the boards as the infamous "Cragislist Scam" since it involved a number of Ruth and Gehrig Goudeys in addition to the 51 and 52 Mantles.
    image


  • jimq112jimq112 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭
    The 52 mantle was a scam feedback deal for sure. With a stupid title like "jesse 1952 topps miky mantle" and the thing selling 25 minutes after it was listed, there's plenty of red flags. The buyer is jesse dugan, from dugan's sportscards in tumwater washington.

    Then the buyer gives the seller positive feedback 6 hours later? Then the seller leaves a positive 1/2 hour later?

    The buyer has a psa 3 listed on ebay now for 12K and is saying it should be a 3.5 or a 4.


    Something's rotten with that whole deal.
    image
  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭
    I emailed the seller and told him that the card looks like a fake that's been reslabbed.

    His response: "Who told you that?"

    What do I tell him now? Was hoping to get him to cancel the listing and at least save one buyer the trauma of receiving this fake card. No doubt he will try to relist at another time...
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    Pat, just report it to eBay. Enough comments and maybe they'll shut it down. I don't want anyone to go through what I did.

    Not productive to deal with the seller. And, unfortunately, the buyer bidding ids are encrypted, so unless eBay takes it down, somebody is going to get stuck with a fake.
    image


  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭
    OK, will do. I just thought I should put a little scare into him and maybe get him to take it down.

    Best case scenario, if he doesn't know its a fake, my email would cast doubt and he would seek out more info. and remove the auction for the sake not duping someone else. (Maybe he got duped and didn't know it). In short, want to prevent the final winner of this action a major headache and financial loss...
  • OAKESY25OAKESY25 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭
    His response: "Who told you that?"

    why would anyone have to tell you that???
    tell him you know a fake when you see one and so will ebay
  • kwtozkwtoz Posts: 352 ✭✭
    If it's a faked PSA label, report it to PSA. Let them tell ebay its a phony.
    Kevin Thomas
  • Carew29Carew29 Posts: 4,025 ✭✭


    << <i>The seller is a super nice guy >>



    So was Bernie Madoff
  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭
    I wrote him back, we'll see if he replies. I tried to report the item but I don't think it worked.
  • corvette1340corvette1340 Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭
    lol, I sent him a message saying they were fake and he was a piece of sh*t for selling fraudulent stuff on ebay. I get a message back from a user named "coolpapa2009" asking how I knew that and that he didn't know they were fake. I looked and this same username has used 3 different ebay id's since February "mastercollector311" and "sjmccas" being the other two.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    wow. Coolpapa is selling a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 6 yet another one of the cards that were part of the craigslist scam.
    image


  • ga5150ga5150 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reply. I understand now.

    Rodney




    << <i>

    A few problems with the card. First, the holder has been breached. Second, the flip labeling has slightly different font than a regular PSA slip. Third, when using a loupe, you could see the back of the card was not authentic.

    This type of fraud is apparently perpetrated regularly on Craigslist and is known on the boards as the infamous "Cragislist Scam" since it involved a number of Ruth and Gehrig Goudeys in addition to the 51 and 52 Mantles. >>

  • ga5150ga5150 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭
    I checked the cert. number 50059491 on the psa site and it says it's not available to be displayed. I'm assuming that means it's a bogus number right?

    Rodney
  • corvette1340corvette1340 Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭


    << <i>wow. Coolpapa is selling a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 6 yet another one of the cards that were part of the craigslist scam. >>



    coolpapa and this other guy are the same, he messed up and sent me a message from the coolpapa account.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...coolpapa and this other guy are the same, he messed up and sent me a message from the coolpapa account. .."

    ///////////////////////////


    When crookery is turning to caca, everything goes wrong at once.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This guy gives scammers a bad name - if you're gonna scam, at least do it correctly and respond with the right scam name for the designated scam auction. Geez!.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>wow. Coolpapa is selling a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 6 yet another one of the cards that were part of the craigslist scam. >>



    coolpapa and this other guy are the same, he messed up and sent me a message from the coolpapa account. >>



    Right, I gathered that. My "wow" reaction was about how he's running a concurrent auction with another one the notorious craigslist scam cards--the '51 Bowman Mantle. Spread your scam across different user ids. That probably works well for scammers...until you forget which account you're logged into when you reply to questions via email. lol.
    image


  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭

    So many slimballs, good catch thunderdan.
  • csmtampacsmtampa Posts: 1,828
    Man now where am I gonna throw all my money when I want to buy my 51 Bowman Mantle and 52 Topps Mantle in 4 months?? At least Levi Bloom still has a good reputation. Probably one of the best for vintage!
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Dan

    I remember you having that problem with this card and I'm happy to hear
    that you were able to get your dough back.


    The seller of these cards is a real slime ball.


    PSA should be notified about this and they should get ebay to shut this down.

    It is after all their trademark at stake here.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 31,560 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dan

    I remember you having that problem with this card and I'm happy to hear
    that you were able to get your dough back.


    The seller of these cards is a real slime ball.


    PSA should be notified about this and they should get ebay to shut this down.

    It is after all their trademark at stake here.


    Good point, and actually it might not be a bad idea to start thinking about tamper resistent slabs- could you imagine spending this kind of dough and finding out the card has been switched?

    Steve >>

  • fkwfkw Posts: 1,766 ✭✭
    Thanks for the great scans...

    The card is a fake...... the front says so, but whoever made it knew a bit on what to do. They added a slight yellow color in the border where the bat goes into the border, and the red bar overprint on back is a good touch and usually shows a good card.

    On these R319s...... the #92 Gehrig should have the red bar (on front) slightly wider overall than the background above it, so the white border is ever so slightly misaligned at the edges. Most fakes will have the white border perfectly straight on the L&R sides which is not true on authentic R319s.

  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    This is interesting...........


    POSITIVE ......Looking forward to recieving card,Seller is Super Nice & Seems Very Trustworthy!

    left by............bowtie454 ( 6611) Mar-25-09 19:12


    ¡Follow-up by bowtie454 (Jun-09-09 11:44):

    DON'T BECOME A VICTIM!!! JOE ORLANDO OF PSA VERIFIED CARD TO BE FAKE!! SCAM!

    ITEM..........jesse 1952 topps miky mantle (#140310148548) US $8,250.00 View Item


    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    Wow.

    I'm still confused why Jesse left positive feedback before the card shipped in the first place.

    image


  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    Poof. Glad to see this go.
    image


  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow.

    I'm still confused why Jesse left positive feedback before the card shipped in the first place. >>



    ////////////////////////////


    I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the Hernandez gang
    may have talked LOTS of buyers into leaving premature feedback
    in order to facilitate the release of funds by PayPal.

    The crooks are very persuasive and act "Super Nice & Seem Very Trustworthy!"



    ......

    Depending on what method of payment the Mantle buyer used,
    he may still be able to get his money back.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • msohnmsohn Posts: 61
    DO NOT TOUCH THIS CARD!!!!

    This card and fake label look extremely similar to the same 1933 Goudey Gehrig that I got scammed into buying last year. The scammer was Jose Hernandez from San Ysidro, CA and he went by the ID "dunkindoughnuts" or something like that. If I remember, I will dig up the card and post a scan.
  • msohnmsohn Posts: 61
    image

    HERE IS THE SCAN -- It appears to be the exact same card that I have in my possession.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    The 1951 Bowman Mantle being auctioned by coolpapa is still up.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    He pulled the '33 Goudey Ruth down as well.

    Unfortunately, I doubt that Mantle is coming down unless eBay takes the time to verify that the scammer owns both the coolpapa and gmansrevenage accounts. Wouldn't be hard to do, but I don't hold my breath with eBay.
    image


  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone else bothered that PSA isn't trying to get these cards out of the hobby? They have a lot more credibility that us and could get these cards removed from circulation.

    It's not like these cards are some 1990's junk, they are some of the highest profile cards in the hobby.

    It's their name on the slab and it's rep that will take hit more than anyone elses.

    BTW - I can't see the cracked edge on the Mantle. Maybe's its the scan, but it does look good to the average buyer.
    Mike
  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭
    How do you know that PSA is aware of the situation and doing nothing about it?
    What would you suggest the process be in a situation like this?
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How do you know that PSA is aware of the situation and doing nothing about it?
    What would you suggest the process be in a situation like this? >>



    ///////////////////////////////

    Since I continue to suffer unjustified VeRO takedowns EVERY week
    in designer fashion, it is VERY safe to say that PSA is NOT telling EBAY
    to shape up on the fake slabbed-card issue.

    (The same type of problems exist on the coin side.)

    VeRO takedowns are instant and cannot be appealed to EBAY. The
    VeRO reps - half are VERY knowldgeable, half are buffoons - have
    the absolute FINAL say in each case.

    CLCT could end the problem in a matter of days, if they would become
    active in VeRO.

    CLCT - PSA/PCGS - could use a current employee to accept complaints
    and do the takedowns. It would cost CLCT no extra money.





    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How do you know that PSA is aware of the situation and doing nothing about it?
    What would you suggest the process be in a situation like this? >>



    The fact that cards from the Craigslist scam are still in the hobby are evidence that PSA is doing nothing about it. That scam happened at least 12 months ago and the cards still show up on ebay.

    This scam wasn't a secret. Why does it take average collectors on this board to point it out?
    Mike
  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭
    New Craigslist looking scam cards can be made today, it's not a one and done deal. How is PSA supposed to know where they all are and who will be making them or offering them for sale next. You think the scammers put PSA on their mailing list, notifying them when they list a bogus card. There are things where Vero works well with when dealing with impossibilities and things you're not allowed to sell. Vero doesn't work well when a scammer doctors scans just right, puts up a bad scan, steals scans, and you can't always be sure.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>New Craigslist looking scam cards can be made today, it's not a one and done deal. How is PSA supposed to know where they all are and who will be making them or offering them for sale next. You think the scammers put PSA on their mailing list, notifying them when they list a bogus card. There are things where Vero works well with when dealing with impossibilities and things you're not allowed to sell. Vero doesn't work well when a scammer doctors scans just right, puts up a bad scan, steals scans, and you can't always be sure. >>



    ///////////////////////////////////


    The PSA/PCGS VeRO-Rep - an existing employee - would be notified by the
    same band of pirate-busters that currently notify the readers of this board.

    VeRO Reps do NOT have to "be sure;" they only need a reasonable suspicion
    to do a takedown.

    The burden of proof in the controversy is on the lister. He must prove - to the
    satisfaction of the VeRO Rep - that he has/owns the item and that it is authentic.

    FEW counterfeiters/crooks even bother responding to a takedown.





    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    It seems so easy I wonder why they don't do it?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • Need to chime in. This coolpapa character claims to live in Oahu, but his ebay ID says in CA. he had a 52 AND 51 Mantle, both ostensibly PSA, on L.A. Craigslist 2 weeks ago. I ALMOST got sucked in (11K for both), but didn't. I asked him to use escrow and he declined. He did, however agree to listing on Ebay buy it now, which means 100% failsafe buyer protection, according to the security experts i talked to at PayPal.

    Something very very wrong.
  • and... looking at coolpapa2009's feedback:

    18K worth of cards. 1952+53 Topps Mantle + 51 Bowman Mantle. Great Seller!! A+++ Buyer:
    5toolplayer ( 992 [Feedback score is 500 to 999] )
    Feb-23-09 14:14


    *
    Follow-up by 5toolplayer (Feb-24-09 02:11):
    Super Fast APO priority shipping. BIG Value Card Seller

    -- (#190286136657)

    These are the same cards (less the 53) he had on CL Los Angeles 2 weeks ago
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