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Beware of this 1933 Goudey Gehrig PSA 7
thunderdan
Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
On eBay. I had this card for several days before returning to the seller. I made the mistake of purchasing off eBay which almost cost me a lot of $. If you're thinking of bidding, please DO NOT! Look very closely, it's a fake flip and the card is most likely a reprint. What tipped me off is seal on the top of the holder is breached and has some frosting.
Linky on eBay
Here are the closeups I took for the few days it was in my possession. Be safe!
Linky on eBay
Here are the closeups I took for the few days it was in my possession. Be safe!
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and he left positive feedback on an 8k card without receiving it first
It appears to be the Craig's List items in play.
El Cajon was one of the first "local pickup" hot spots.
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It is somewhat important to note that NOT everybody
who is reselling this garbage EVEN knows there is
anything wrong with it.
But, most resellers do KNOW that they got screwed and
are just passing on the hot spud.
<< <i>I wonder if they guy who bought his 52 Mantle received his card yet..... >>
I should ask him. He's just south of Seattle and happens to be the seller who is trying to unload his spooned out '52 Mantle PSA 3
Thanks,
Rodney
Babe Ruth
<< <i>Since I'm fairly new to the PSA collecting, what do you mean by fake flip? Is this where the guy took a real NM 7 card and took it out and replaced it with a reprint or lesser grade card? I understand the breach and frosting and know to look for that.
Thanks,
Rodney >>
A few problems with the card. First, the holder has been breached. Second, the flip labeling has slightly different font than a regular PSA slip. Third, when using a loupe, you could see the back of the card was not authentic.
This type of fraud is apparently perpetrated regularly on Craigslist and is known on the boards as the infamous "Cragislist Scam" since it involved a number of Ruth and Gehrig Goudeys in addition to the 51 and 52 Mantles.
Then the buyer gives the seller positive feedback 6 hours later? Then the seller leaves a positive 1/2 hour later?
The buyer has a psa 3 listed on ebay now for 12K and is saying it should be a 3.5 or a 4.
Something's rotten with that whole deal.
His response: "Who told you that?"
What do I tell him now? Was hoping to get him to cancel the listing and at least save one buyer the trauma of receiving this fake card. No doubt he will try to relist at another time...
Not productive to deal with the seller. And, unfortunately, the buyer bidding ids are encrypted, so unless eBay takes it down, somebody is going to get stuck with a fake.
Best case scenario, if he doesn't know its a fake, my email would cast doubt and he would seek out more info. and remove the auction for the sake not duping someone else. (Maybe he got duped and didn't know it). In short, want to prevent the final winner of this action a major headache and financial loss...
why would anyone have to tell you that???
tell him you know a fake when you see one and so will ebay
<< <i>The seller is a super nice guy >>
So was Bernie Madoff
Rodney
<< <i>
A few problems with the card. First, the holder has been breached. Second, the flip labeling has slightly different font than a regular PSA slip. Third, when using a loupe, you could see the back of the card was not authentic.
This type of fraud is apparently perpetrated regularly on Craigslist and is known on the boards as the infamous "Cragislist Scam" since it involved a number of Ruth and Gehrig Goudeys in addition to the 51 and 52 Mantles. >>
Rodney
<< <i>wow. Coolpapa is selling a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 6 yet another one of the cards that were part of the craigslist scam. >>
coolpapa and this other guy are the same, he messed up and sent me a message from the coolpapa account.
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When crookery is turning to caca, everything goes wrong at once.
<< <i>
<< <i>wow. Coolpapa is selling a '51 Bowman Mantle PSA 6 yet another one of the cards that were part of the craigslist scam. >>
coolpapa and this other guy are the same, he messed up and sent me a message from the coolpapa account. >>
Right, I gathered that. My "wow" reaction was about how he's running a concurrent auction with another one the notorious craigslist scam cards--the '51 Bowman Mantle. Spread your scam across different user ids. That probably works well for scammers...until you forget which account you're logged into when you reply to questions via email. lol.
So many slimballs, good catch thunderdan.
I remember you having that problem with this card and I'm happy to hear
that you were able to get your dough back.
The seller of these cards is a real slime ball.
PSA should be notified about this and they should get ebay to shut this down.
It is after all their trademark at stake here.
Steve
<< <i>Dan
I remember you having that problem with this card and I'm happy to hear
that you were able to get your dough back.
The seller of these cards is a real slime ball.
PSA should be notified about this and they should get ebay to shut this down.
It is after all their trademark at stake here.
Good point, and actually it might not be a bad idea to start thinking about tamper resistent slabs- could you imagine spending this kind of dough and finding out the card has been switched?
Steve >>
The card is a fake...... the front says so, but whoever made it knew a bit on what to do. They added a slight yellow color in the border where the bat goes into the border, and the red bar overprint on back is a good touch and usually shows a good card.
On these R319s...... the #92 Gehrig should have the red bar (on front) slightly wider overall than the background above it, so the white border is ever so slightly misaligned at the edges. Most fakes will have the white border perfectly straight on the L&R sides which is not true on authentic R319s.
POSITIVE ......Looking forward to recieving card,Seller is Super Nice & Seems Very Trustworthy!
left by............bowtie454 ( 6611) Mar-25-09 19:12
¡Follow-up by bowtie454 (Jun-09-09 11:44):
DON'T BECOME A VICTIM!!! JOE ORLANDO OF PSA VERIFIED CARD TO BE FAKE!! SCAM!
ITEM..........jesse 1952 topps miky mantle (#140310148548) US $8,250.00 View Item
I'm still confused why Jesse left positive feedback before the card shipped in the first place.
<< <i>Wow.
I'm still confused why Jesse left positive feedback before the card shipped in the first place. >>
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I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the Hernandez gang
may have talked LOTS of buyers into leaving premature feedback
in order to facilitate the release of funds by PayPal.
The crooks are very persuasive and act "Super Nice & Seem Very Trustworthy!"
......
Depending on what method of payment the Mantle buyer used,
he may still be able to get his money back.
This card and fake label look extremely similar to the same 1933 Goudey Gehrig that I got scammed into buying last year. The scammer was Jose Hernandez from San Ysidro, CA and he went by the ID "dunkindoughnuts" or something like that. If I remember, I will dig up the card and post a scan.
HERE IS THE SCAN -- It appears to be the exact same card that I have in my possession.
Steve
Unfortunately, I doubt that Mantle is coming down unless eBay takes the time to verify that the scammer owns both the coolpapa and gmansrevenage accounts. Wouldn't be hard to do, but I don't hold my breath with eBay.
It's not like these cards are some 1990's junk, they are some of the highest profile cards in the hobby.
It's their name on the slab and it's rep that will take hit more than anyone elses.
BTW - I can't see the cracked edge on the Mantle. Maybe's its the scan, but it does look good to the average buyer.
What would you suggest the process be in a situation like this?
<< <i>How do you know that PSA is aware of the situation and doing nothing about it?
What would you suggest the process be in a situation like this? >>
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Since I continue to suffer unjustified VeRO takedowns EVERY week
in designer fashion, it is VERY safe to say that PSA is NOT telling EBAY
to shape up on the fake slabbed-card issue.
(The same type of problems exist on the coin side.)
VeRO takedowns are instant and cannot be appealed to EBAY. The
VeRO reps - half are VERY knowldgeable, half are buffoons - have
the absolute FINAL say in each case.
CLCT could end the problem in a matter of days, if they would become
active in VeRO.
CLCT - PSA/PCGS - could use a current employee to accept complaints
and do the takedowns. It would cost CLCT no extra money.
<< <i>How do you know that PSA is aware of the situation and doing nothing about it?
What would you suggest the process be in a situation like this? >>
The fact that cards from the Craigslist scam are still in the hobby are evidence that PSA is doing nothing about it. That scam happened at least 12 months ago and the cards still show up on ebay.
This scam wasn't a secret. Why does it take average collectors on this board to point it out?
<< <i>New Craigslist looking scam cards can be made today, it's not a one and done deal. How is PSA supposed to know where they all are and who will be making them or offering them for sale next. You think the scammers put PSA on their mailing list, notifying them when they list a bogus card. There are things where Vero works well with when dealing with impossibilities and things you're not allowed to sell. Vero doesn't work well when a scammer doctors scans just right, puts up a bad scan, steals scans, and you can't always be sure. >>
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The PSA/PCGS VeRO-Rep - an existing employee - would be notified by the
same band of pirate-busters that currently notify the readers of this board.
VeRO Reps do NOT have to "be sure;" they only need a reasonable suspicion
to do a takedown.
The burden of proof in the controversy is on the lister. He must prove - to the
satisfaction of the VeRO Rep - that he has/owns the item and that it is authentic.
FEW counterfeiters/crooks even bother responding to a takedown.
Steve
Something very very wrong.
18K worth of cards. 1952+53 Topps Mantle + 51 Bowman Mantle. Great Seller!! A+++ Buyer:
5toolplayer ( 992 [Feedback score is 500 to 999] )
Feb-23-09 14:14
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Follow-up by 5toolplayer (Feb-24-09 02:11):
Super Fast APO priority shipping. BIG Value Card Seller
-- (#190286136657)
These are the same cards (less the 53) he had on CL Los Angeles 2 weeks ago