Have crossovers always been a COMPLETE JOKE!?!?!

bobbyw8469

I just submitted some cards from other graders to PSA....all I want it the equal grade. So far everything has come back MG!!!! Have the crossovers always been that hard to get? this is my first time doing this, so I am not quite sure what to expect. These are not GEM or PRO cards....these are SGC, GAI cards.......any advice?

VitoCo1972

Very typical from what I gather Bobby. I would try taking 10% of them and test by cracking and subbing.

onefasttalon

......any advice?


.... crack'em out BEFORE you submit...

bobbyw8469

Well..the Ted Williams was an SGC 8.5......About a $2,000 card......I am not comfortable cracking that one out.....the other card was a 1952 Topps Common in a GAI 8.

CNote

I've done some crossovers with decent luck. I asked for a 9 however on a certain card, and it came back MG. Cracked open the BGS case, subbed it on my last large submission, and it came back as this

bobbyw8469

Wow! Nice....but its modern....I only deal with vintage.........not sure if that matters or not....

storm888

Best to crack 'em out b4 you send 'em in.

ndleo

Use the crossover service if you like padding PSA's submission fees. There is an inherent conflict with one grading company assessing another grading companies work.

cnote's experience is not unusual. I've had the same experience with both modern and vintage.

If you want to cross, you will have to crack.

smtjoy

I have done a bunch of vintage crossovers and PSA just hammers them if left in slabs. The only real way if you want the card in a PSA slab is to crack and submit. I had 3 clemente cards get MG but then cracked and they came back the grades I expected, lol. Dont waste the money for CO's in slabs with PSA. SGC is very fair on their slab crossovers, PSA is not.

storm888

"...Dont waste the money for CO's in slabs with PSA. SGC is very fair on their slab crossovers, PSA is not.."

////////////////////////////

I agree that, over the long haul, it is a waste of money.

I think the word "fair" probably does not really apply.

SGC seems quite prepared to accept the correct grades
of other top-tier TPGs. PSA is FAR less liberal in that regard.

I don't see either leaning as "fair" or "unfair." It's more
a matter of fairly liberal VS terribly conservative.

Mickey71

I wish this topic would be addressed specifically by PSA. If they can't render an opinion they should issue a voucher. If they can see the card well then render an opinion and charge for the grading. I've crossed like 1 out of 16 SGC 88 and GAI 8 and 8.5 Mantles into PSA 8. This was like 3 seperate subs. They were all well centered. I'll never do it again. It cost me alot of money. When cracked did quite well. A couple of 8.5's and numerous PSA 8's. Quite honestly, this service is a joke and should be eliminated.

WinPitcher

What should be eliminated is people using it.


Steve

perkdog

<< <i>.......any advice? >>



Yea dont bother, its a complete waste of money.


Edit: I got sucked in by using the service with my membership renewal's 6 free subs- of the 6 two got the .5 bump up and I can honestly say out of the 6 four were pretty much equal in terms of condition ( 2 of those 4 bumped ) After that I submitted about 6-8 high dollar cards and all got shot down, a few of them were breathtaking compared to some .5 bumps Ive compared them with.

Did I say it was a waste of money? Well I forgot to add its a complete joke as well.

BigDaddyBowman

<< <i>

<< <i>.......any advice? >>



Yea dont bother, its a complete waste of money.


Edit: I got sucked in by using the service with my membership renewal's 6 free subs- of the 6 two got the .5 bump up and I can honestly say out of the 6 four were pretty much equal in terms of condition ( 2 of those 4 bumped ) After that I submitted about 6-8 high dollar cards and all got shot down, a few of them were breathtaking compared to some .5 bumps Ive compared them with.

Did I say it was a waste of money? Well I forgot to add its a complete joke as well. >>








Hey Paul....

Tell us how you really feel!!!!


Iv'e seen the scans of the cards Paul's talking about....and I would have to agree with him.

NickM

You could always submit for crossover with no minimum grade specified. I'm 1 for 1 crossing a vintage SCD 9 (the original SCD with red label) to a PSA 9 that way.

Nick

Texoma

It cost me but I cracked out the PSA first! The old Double flipperooskie--hopefully I'll be turning what started out as PSA 4 into a PSA 6, 6.5 or 7 SOON! If not--i got the bvg 6.5!

KbKards

If you are real good at grading, when you look at a card in an SGC or GAI holder for crossover they fall into 3 categories.
1) Should cross over every time with no problem.
2) Might cross over if PSA is okay with the...
3) No chance. Dump to next treasure hunter ASAP noting no return policy since card has been third party certified.
Since you paid 1/2 PSA price for the PSA grade you hope to get, and you're buying cards from people who don't fear an increase in wealth, you'll eventually figure out that it's a hard way to make easy money.

otwcards

The crossover program would work IF it was designed properly. Since the PSA grading fees include the cost of additional processing, slabbing and proofing, the crossover fee should be LESS and then an upcharge to the full grading fee can be added WHEN the card is crossed over.

When I put together the program for SGC, we set it up that the "Review" process was a lower fee, then an upcharge was added if the card met or exceeded the minimum grade requested by the submitter. This helped elminate the perception by the submitter that the service was only a revenue generator rather than a truly objective service tier.

PSA's process seems to be nothing more than a source of added revenue for limited service. You end up paying the full price for less than the full service. And even then, if the card is deemed to meet the minimum grade, it is a rare case indeed that the grade is bumped to a higher grade should the card deserve it.

The drawback, and this was clearly stated at SGC, is in the event that upon cracking a card out of the case it is determined that the card has been altered, it will not and cannot be returned to the original slab and would be returned in a CS1.

nam812

Been there, done that

ndleo

In defense of BVG, that PSA 4 Red Heart Mantle looks like it was severely undergraded. I don't see the usual PSA 4 issues with that card, unless there is a wrinkle that I can't see.

BassPro77

i cracked a GAI 8 and sent to psa
and got this

bobbyw8469

I absolutely LOVE all the feedback I have received! I was leery before sending them in because I have heard the horror stories from other people. I guess I wanted to experience it myself.....and now that I have.....I can tell others that aren't as foolhardy as me . . . . . .SAVE YOUR MONEY!!!!!! The crossover service is a WASTE OF TIME! That is all...

sbtrailrider

I'm not a PSA apologist, but see the Texoma example as proving the poiint of PSA having a higher standard. That shown, the cross over will undoubtably not be equal. I have a few cards I bought for cross over - SGC getting equal grade at PSA, and Beckett's, CSA and the like are, upon personal expection, not being worth the effort to cross over or to crack and resubmit. (the CSA cards I bought were all trimmed.)

Crossover = crapshoot.

Why crossover? 1) you want to add to your registry set; 2) you want an increase in market value because it's in a PSA slab; 3) the card looks better in a PSA slab

Well, two out three reasons are valid. And, there again is the proof that a crossover should not be assumed to come back the same grade. If all grading companies gave the same grade for the same card the values would be equal.

I agree with the notion of a lesser fee for a review, and a surcharge for PSA to reholder the card. That is a fair, and transparent, pricing model. The same should be offered for PSA to review and bump PSA cards.

divecchia

Well, that sucks...I just sent in 5 cards this afternoon. We'll see what happens, but right now my confidence just went down the $hitter possibly along with my money.

Oh well, live and learn...Donato

MrVintage

I have tried crossing over 3 high dollar cards to psa with no success. The first one was a 1961 fleer BVG 9.5 Jim Otto that ended up being cut from a sheet. The second was a GAI 10 1964 topps Phil Niekro rookie that didn't meet the minimum grade. The third was a 1971 topps Carl Yaztremski that didn't meet the minimum grade. I didn't crack any of these out and ended up selling them for a little bit less than what I originally paid for them.

Carew29

I'm not going to be-och about my SGC 86 Below fresh back from PSA

bobbyw8469

Carew...did you crack it out first or submit in the SGC slab?

Carew29

Cracked it out. Purchased on ebay for around $30 if i recall correctly.

bobbyw8469

Yes...I guess that reconfirms everyones' theory that you CAN NOT send cards in someone elses slab to PSA.....

WinPitcher

Not sure I buy the PSA has higher standards then SGC argument.

I have cracked SGC cards and received the same or higher PSA grades.

I think the reason crossovers fail is simply PSA does not want to be put into a position

where it must cross at the same grade (or higher) without seeing the card raw.

Perhaps they should have set it up where the submitter has no say in min grade.


Steve

hammered

I agree with the above statement.
Another factor is that despite Nick's experience, it is impossible (in my mind) for PSA to tell if a card has been altered while it sits encapsulated by another TPG.
So when PSA breaks open the (SGC, GAI) case they are committed.
What if after cracking, they determine it's been sheet cut, etc? They are now committed to holdering the card.
Because of this, I don't think they are comfortable at all evaluating cards in other holders.

otwcards

<< <i>I agree with the above statement.
Another factor is that despite Nick's experience, it is impossible (in my mind) for PSA to tell if a card has been altered while it sits encapsulated by another TPG.
So when PSA breaks open the (SGC, GAI) case they are committed.
What if after cracking, they determine it's been sheet cut, etc? They are now committed to holdering the card.
Because of this, I don't think they are comfortable at all evaluating cards in other holders. >>



I would not suspect that they are "committed" to holdering the card once they crack it out. That is a liability that NO TPG would assume in evaluating an encapsulated card. That risk and liability is assumed by the submitter.

WinPitcher

That's probably why they reject so many crossovers.

Why get into a problem with a submitter?

That is exactly why the usually err on the side of caution.


Steve

divecchia

OK, I was one of the guys who posted and thought my money went down the $hitter with trying some crossovers without cracking the cards out. But my sub just came in and everything crossed as I thought it should. Maybe I just got lucky or buying the card and not the slab helped me out this time around.

Here are my results...

Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type Country
1 1 14358984 NEAR MINT 7 1906 FAN CRAZE N.L. J. EDWARD HANLON Card US
2 1 14358985 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1928 W513 79 TONY LAZZERI HAND CUT Card US
3 1 14358986 POOR 1 1945 CARAMELO DEPORTIVO CUBAN LEAGUE 1945-1946 65 MARTIN DIHIGO Card US
1 1 14358996 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL TY COBB PORTRAIT-RED Card US
2 1 14358997 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1911 T205 GOLD BORDER ADDIE JOSS Card US

The only card that was downgraded was the Lazzeri hand cut card. I thought it may only make an 8 because the cut was slightly wavy, so I put down a PSA8 as my minimum grade. All others crossed over grade for grade.

Here are the scans of the original cards...Donato

JackWESQ

Looks like I got lucky with the below 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle. (Crossed from SGC to PSA).

/s/ JackWESQ

divecchia

<< <i>Looks like I got lucky with the below 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle. (Crossed from SGC to PSA).

/s/ JackWESQ >>



Congrats...

I guess it does work out OK sometimes...Donato

bobbyw8469

I am glad you are having success!! Maybe this thread has something to do with it, as they are reading that their members are tired of paying the full grading fee, only to be denied because they don't respect their competitions opinion!!! My 1957 Ted Williams SGC 8.5 I wound up submitting to Memory Lane for their upcoming summer auction. Unfortunately, I missed the deadline by ONE day, so they are gonna put it in their Sept/Oct auction. The 1952 Topps common GAI 8 (1st graded) that wouldn't cross had a terrible accident with a drimmel tool and wound up making the trip to Parsipanny. I will keep everyone updated as to what grade it gets from there.....the other two were PSA 8 (OCs) that I will put on Ebay next week. I requested PSA 7's and was denied, although I have seen 7's with the exact same centering.......

markj111

I sent 6 cards in SGC holders to PSA-two crossed (McCovey rookie and 66 Tigers team) at the equivalent grade (PSA 8). Four did not.

bobbyw8469

I think it also depends which grader looks at it......I have had 1961 Fleer basketball come back MINSZRQ....2nd time, it came back PSA 9!!!! Some graders seem like they don't want to be bothered with it....

bobbyw8469

I will update this thread with scans once I get the cards back.....I hope to learn how to use photobucket by then!