mclouth traded to braves
OAKESY25
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OAKESY25
Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭
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McLouth traded for 1 rookie and 2 prospects
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Steve
Bosox1976
I also saw the Braves released Glavine.
How does Pirates GM Neal Huntington still have a job after giving away Jason Bay and McLouth?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i> and they are dumping salary to boot. >>
So they can sign the next big free agent.
Tabata the big prospect they got last year is in AA so we are 2 to 3 years away from these guys really helping.
Crap from last year that we kept instead of a good player like McClouth
Brandon Moss- crap
Craig Hansen- crap with control issues.
Daniel McCutchen- in the minors
Jose Tabata- in the minors
Jeff Karstens-crap
Andy Laroche- craptastic last year but showing some signs of getting better but 0 power for a corner infielder.
Non Crap
Ross Ohlendorf- mediocre starter
Wow 2 AS and 1 really good until hurt OF's and we get 1 mediocre starter, 1 mediocre at best 3B that is gone once Alvarez is ready and a bunch of minor leaguers and crap.
They have a nice little park and enough loyal fans to fill it 90% for the year and are not willing to spend more than $40M a year on payroll to generate more fan support. Why spend $20M extra on payroll for an extra $5M in added fan/sponsor support? Pretty simple math...
They know that the fans and their pierogie (sp) eating children will ultimately show up to eat hot dogs and enjoy the ball park (a very nice one BTW--one of the few actual good decisions made by the Pirates at the expense of taxpayers but screw them anyway, go Bucs!). Seriously, screw those old timers..
Yes, they are never going to publicly admit this is what is happening. And yes, they will put a team out each spring with the hope that they can hit lightening in a bottle and actually field a competitive team. When this doesn't happen (see: last 16 years) they: trade away good players (ex: JBay) with the promise of receiving prospects and blame MLB for its skewed policy toward big market teams.
After all of this, PGH fans piss and moan, but at the end of the day, show up at the park and visit the Manny Seguillen BBQ pit for an affordable $10 plate of ribs, cold slaw, and beans. Look honey! We can see all 3 rivers!
Steve
maybe thats what it is.. ownership will let the stadium draw the fans in..
although the cubs do try to win.. and do spend a lot in payroll..
and the tickets in Pitt were pretty dang cheap for great seats
The allure of the park will eventually wear off on Pirates fans, although what else is there to do in PGH during the summer? (Answer: Not much).
I have been to a few stadiums and that was my favorite so far.. beautiful..
BTW the DBULLS are the AAA team for the Tampa Bay Rays (no longer "Devil" Rays) and have David Price on their team and last year even Longoria. I think Price has been called up...
I have seen McCutchen play in AAA, tons. He misses signs, steals in wrong situations, misses cut off men, makes horrible base running decisions and swings and misses alot. I don't have the same optimisim others have on him. Again, if he pans out 100%, he is projected to be slightly better than McClouth hitting and lots better defensively. McClouth was a known quantity.
If the Pirates had gotten a sure fire ML ready pitcher I would be much happier.
Trading stars for unproven prospects that may or may not become stars is a pretty risky gamble... especially when the front office makes bone head movies like passing on all the talent in the 2002 draft and picking pitcher Bryan Bullington #1, who was waved a few years later.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
How very shrewd of you. God forbid you drop a ten spot and get to see the whole game.
McClouth is what he is. His outstanding first half last year is not what he is. In his last 400 ABs he is hitting .261 with 13 homers, and 66 RBIs....and he is approaching his 28th birthday, the time at which the all-time graph of batters suggests improvements stop. The great hitters plateau at the peak. The others begin their descent. What you are seeing with McLouth now is what you are likely going to get in the future. Around 20-25 homers, around 20 steals, around a .265-.270 batting average and when the Pirates can be conceivably competitive in say the next 2 or 3 years his contract would be up and you'd be losing him in FA. I don't bebrudge Pirates ownership for dealing him at his peak the question will be the prospects they have received in the McClouth and Bay trades. Nady is an average corner OFer, he doesn't matter...but the Pirates took on two high ceiling but questionable 4 star(Baseball Prospectus) prospects in Jose Tabata and Gorkys Hernandez...and I think that could be the problem with those two trades. The Pirates weren't going to get Tommy Hanson in the Braves trade but they could have pushed for OFer Jason Heyward or even Jordan Schafer but like the 3-way trade last year the Pirates went for quantity over quality...and despite all the high picks the Pirates have had in the last 10 years there isn't a wealth of talent in the minors. If Jeff Locke solves his control issues he's a viable mid rotation starter, Morton is at best a #4 or 5 SP. Andy LaRoche has hit as many as 30 HRs in the minors but at PNC he'll likely peak at around 20 and play very good D. Jack Wilson and Adam LaRoche's contracts are up after this year and F.Sanchez has an option so conceivably he could be gone too. In the LA trade they also received Bryan Morris a 3 star prospect who could also become a mid rotation SP. The Pirates have a slew of mid to back of the rotation SPs and no high ceiling ace quality in the majors or minors so really McClouth wouldn't help them be more than NL Central bottom feeders anyway. The next 2-3 drafts are what Pirates fans should worry about...because they need high upside SP....not a 28 year old CFer who belonged at a corner OF position anyway...and I'm sure that the Pirates were intentionally keeping him in CF and the speedy Nyjer Morgan in LF to maintain McClouth's value because .265/23/80/20 at a corner OF position is a very good but not great player.
<< <i>Pirates players ask "WTF?"
Trading stars for unproven prospects that may or may not become stars is a pretty risky gamble... especially when the front office makes bone head movies like passing on all the talent in the 2002 draft and picking pitcher Bryan Bullington #1, who was waved a few years later. >>
I don't even want to hear the players complain. They are part of the blame. They are still a roster full of major leaguers, and if they didn't play like complete crap, then maybe players would be kept. I know that this is not the major reason, but they need to evaluate their own performances instead of the front office's moves.
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>because they need high upside SP....not a 28 year old CFer >>
This is exactly my problem with the last 3 trades. We didn't get anything close to a #1/2 Sp in any of the trades. You can't tell me Bay, Nady and Mclouth together aren't worth 1 great SP prospect? The Bay deal was the most disappointing in that we got nothing IMO for the guy. Having a slew of "prospects" sucks compared to 1 to 2 sure thing MLers that can help you now.
Come on, this whole McClouth/Bay/Nady wouldn't help in the next 3 years anyway thing is BS to fans. Stocking a team full of mediocre MLers and prospects is hard on fans who have seen players leave and become stars somewhere else. You have to have some reason to watch a team play.
Why not just have the Pirates go on a 3 year "leave of absence" from MLB and concentrate on "developing" these great prospects and come back when they actually have a ML team. It is shameful to have to watch this crap every year.
I have no faith that Nyjer Morgan or McCutchen are going to be anywhere close to Bay let alone McClouth. Name the last great ML OFer that the Pirates have generated through their farm system???????? (hint Bay was traded for)
Not signing Tanner Scheppers whom the Pirates drafted in the second round looks like a big mistake...granted he was coming off of surgery but he's going to wind up being a top 10 pick this year and that would have given the Pirates one top tier SP prospect. The only problem with the McClouth trade if I were a Pirates fan was that allegedly the Pirates didn't shop him and that Huntington was so impressed with the Braves random offer he jumped at it. Who knows what he could have gotten from a more open market...teams rarely trade elite pitching prospects anyway so perhaps this is the best they could do.
You just have to hope Tabata and Hernandez pan out...McCutchen looks like he's going to be a pretty good player and Alvarez is on the way to go along with Andy LaRoche and Doumit...you'll have at least $15-20 million coming off the books after this year and the Pirates are going hard after a 16 year old Dominican prospect named Miguel Angel Sano and really as a Pirates fan you can only look at how the Brewers and Reds have put together their good young teams by building from the draft because losing Bay and McClouth in trades aren't the Pirates problem, this is the Pirates problem.
Last 10 #1 Draft Picks
1999 Bobby Bradley
2000 Sean Burnett
2001 John Van Benschoten
2002 Bryan Bullington
2003 Paul Maholm
2004 Neil Walker
2005 Andrew McCutchen
2006 Brad Lincoln
2007 Daniel Moskos
2008 Pedro Alvarez
until last year the Pirates always drafted based on signability ie being cheap....like the Padres and Twins..except in the Twins case they always find later round picks who turn out to be just as good and they have a great instructional system...something else the Pirates seem to lack because all of the highly touted prospects they've had have either washed out to injury or have woefully underperfomed like Neil Walker. So if nothing else at least this new ownership group is looking to improve via the draft and spending the money to get the best players they can instead of who fits in their budget.
I wrote a few posts commenting how bad they have drafted as well. It is sad really but the thing about young players is there is no gurantees. What if Alvarez becomes a fat toad (he came to camp this spring overweight) and doesn't pan out? They have been unlucky in the players they should have drafted haven't panned out like Walker, Moskos.
You mention the Reds, but their trades gave players like Volquez which helped the ML team immediately. I am still not sure about how much Andy LaRoche will help but at least he has been much better this year than last. Adam is going away as well as Jack Wilson with no real ML caliber replacements in the minors. Alvarez won't be ready next year, Walker doesn't look ready so who is going to play SS and 1B?
The downside of this approach is that when/if these current prospects start to produce at the MLB level, unless something changes, these players will be flipped again. The key is to have an abundant system with prospects ready to step in so you don't go from competitive to 100 losses. If the fans don't like it, maybe they should root for another team or start following the WNBA.