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Scum Ebay Seller.....................................
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
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GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
Comments
Yes indeed. A rich family 'Heritage'.
But right now the family is losing money on them until Unkle Shill steps in with some bids.
<< <i>Buying,flipping,selling and not telling
You forgot cracking....
<< <i>
<< <i>Buying,flipping,selling and not telling
You forgot cracking.... >>
I caught it to late
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
<< <i>"This is from a collection of coins left to my Mother by my Grandfather." What difference does it make where the coin came from? From the buyer's standpoint, this is just superfluous information, so it shouldn't affect the value of the coin one way or another. While I don't particularly care for storyteller sellers, I suppose in this case one could argue it's merely a white lie. Dubious? Maybe. Scum? Eh, I don't know...I've seen a lot worse! >>
I care about the seller's flipping methods---- crack out problem coins and sell them raw, and advertise them as part of an old-time collection.
CRACKOUT ARTIST
...and is not disclosing that they buy coins in problem holders, crack them out, and sell them as raw without mention of the problem.
Lots of folks here have a problem with that and consider it scummy behavior. Apparently, some folks (even some folks here) consider it a business model.
Serves him right
<< <i>Well, at least it looks like this joker is losing money. >>
This is my observation as well, they lost money on BOTH auctions.
<< <i>What's the problem? the seller is loosing money
Serves him right >>
Plus they offer a 7-day return privilege. If the buyer is disappointed that the scratch was not revealed in the auction listing they can return it. If I were ponying $1k for a raw coin on eBay, I would certainly do my homework. But I doubt I would ever spend that much for a raw coin on eBay.
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>What's the problem? the seller is loosing money
Serves him right >>
x2
Between those two pieces, he's in the hole a couple hundred.
"Grandfather to mother?
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1126&Lot_No=2071"
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>Grandpa must of bought then last month and Mom didn't like plastic.
But right now the family is losing money on them until Unkle Shill steps in with some bids.
One of the more clever posts in recent memory
Heritage purchase for 1872-CC half, improperly cleaned: $1495
eBay sales for same coin, cracked out: $1428
eBay fees are about $43 for this one.
Net loss, about $110.
Result #2:
Heritage purchase for 1870-CC half, scratched: $1265
eBay sales price for same coin, cracked out: $1865
eBay fees are about $50 for this one.
Net gain, about $550.
Total net gain for the two coins, about $440. Providing that no sales taxes were paid on the Heritage purchase.
Hey, whaddayknow! Profit!
As long as Uncle Shill was not the winner.
<< <i>
Check out all his other auctions too.... same thing. >>
In the coin trade, as well as with the antique trade, ignore all stories. I don't know why people want to
claim a coin was found in grampa's trunk, but it matters zero to what the coin is worth. The 2 examples you cited
are both desirable coins that sold for about what they are worth. Many people won't buy a coin that says "scratched"
or "cleaned" on the holder, and the vast majority are cracked out and sold raw. Only the "improperly" cleaned coins
are put in slabs with that bad word on them. The "properly" cleaned coins get put in slabs with no mention of cleaning.
The coins have a return privilege, and collectors of these coins are sophisticated enough to determine whether the
coin is acceptable TO THEM for the price paid.
These coins were sold several months ago on Heritage. What is your proof that the ebay seller was the BUYER on Heritage
or that he cracked out the coins?
(the OP is 17 years old and received the ANA Young Numismatist award...but still has to learn some realities of the
marketplace)
eBay + weekend + Heritage + forum = easy hate outlet
You have excellent points.
But does it sell newspapers? No.
Also, for a low-feedback seller to realize Heritage like prices, well, that's pretty good in my opinion.
[edits] Manual speel cheking for multipl erorrs.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Check out all his other auctions too.... same thing. >>
In the coin trade, as well as with the antique trade, ignore all stories. I don't know why people want to
claim a coin was found in grampa's trunk, but it matters zero to what the coin is worth. The 2 examples you cited
are both desirable coins that sold for about what they are worth. Many people won't buy a coin that says "scratched"
or "cleaned" on the holder, and the vast majority are cracked out and sold raw. Only the "improperly" cleaned coins
are put in slabs with that bad word on them. The "properly" cleaned coins get put in slabs with no mention of cleaning.
The coins have a return privilege, and collectors of these coins are sophisticated enough to determine whether the
coin is acceptable TO THEM for the price paid.
These coins were sold several months ago on Heritage. What is your proof that the ebay seller was the BUYER on Heritage
or that he cracked out the coins?
>>
Did the coins sell for what I think they're worth? Yes. But they could have just as easily sold for more. The closing price of an auction doesn't necessarily excuse the ethics of the sale.
I have no proof that this ebay seller is the one that bought them on Heritage. However, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume what occured here. What's your proof the buyer is sophisticated enough to know what is going on? I know plenty of uneducated folks with thick wallets.
I don't care much about the story. I just find it bad business to be cracking out problem coins and selling them raw without any mention of the issue, with photos that don't disclose the issue either.
<< <i>It's just that this particular person is a...
CRACKOUT ARTIST
...and is not disclosing that they buy coins in problem holders, crack them out, and sell them as raw without mention of the problem. >>
We must define crackout artist differently.... A crackout artist cracks coins out for upgrades, not to sell them raw on eBay.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. Likely the sellers "story" didn't enhance the ending bid but it does serve to make him a liar in my book.
marketplace)
Disregard,misread post
Agree with you on that! If a person knowingly buys TPG problem coins where the problem is noted on the holder, cracks them out and then resells them without mentioning the problem and also makes up some false pedigree like 'out of grandma's trunk of family treasures' to make the coin seem new to the marketplace, then they are not telling the truth (=liar) and as a result of that are attempting to defraud folks by misrepresenting the product they are selling. No difference between this and a used car dealer who sells a flood damaged car with the odometer rolled back as 'driven by a little old lady to church once a week and never damaged.'. No, a person who cracks something out to resell it like was done here is not a crackout artist. IMO a crackout artist is someone who looks for PQ or undergraded coins, cracks them out and resubmits as raw attempting to get a higher grade, then resell the coin in the holder with the higher grade.
Yes Frank has a couple of good points but just because it is a reality in the marketplace that there are some unscrupulous sellers does not make it OK...
Just a couple of thoughts for a Monday...
K
<< <i>Frank makes some good points. That said however, I am not a 17 year old kid and have, nor ever will win any numismatist award... but can smell bs a good ways off.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. Likely the sellers "story" didn't enhance the ending bid but it does serve to make him a liar in my book. >>
Some ducks don't walk or quack.
What was his name before.
Thanks for your post.
Every time I see one of these, I go away for a few months.
you mean???? 2***G(182) ???? Nah....he was just havin fun biddin....ON BOTH....
I agree with Young. In my book this is dishonest - there is intent to hide information to profit personally. There is intent to keep known information from the buyer and hide behind "the buyer should know better" to justify the practice.
This practice is a "reality of the marketplace", as Frank points out, but it does not make it OK. Unless everything is OK as long as it makes you a buck.
The other side says that failure to disclose any material information, even information that is subjective and "just the opinion of the grading company" is tantamount to fraud.
The first opinion presupposes an educated and knowledgable market, capable of reaching their own conclusions - even from photographs. The second attempts to hold sellers to a higher standard of disclosure, more on the level of, say, real estate disclosure.
My opinion is that I need as much information as possible prior to any purchase. This information is not limited to the coin itself; the reputation of a seller, my past dealings and others' reports of past dealings factor in as well.
In this case, and sadly so given his age and expertise, the information disclosed about the seller militates against any possible future dealings with him.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
What have we learned in this thread?
This seller is:
A slacker cracker quacker mister flipper ripper.
His family?
Uncle Shill is there to help with Momma's Bills and Granny's Pills.
The coins?
A cleaned screened scratched matched batch crap catch.
Okay, i'll stop. <elvis>Thank you very much.</elvis>
I think cracking netgrades and selling raw undisclosed is the worst of the worst, despicable at best. I just thought Frank raised " food for thought " in a very compelling way.
<< <i>What is your proof that the ebay seller was the BUYER on Heritage
or that he cracked out the coins? >>
Here's proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
1. The seller stated the coins were from her grandfather's collection, which were given to her mother. (I assume you agree.)
2. The seller knowingly and blatantly lied, as evidenced by the fact the coins were not in her mother's possession a mere two month's earlier. (I assume you agree.)
3. Transport to the bidder from Heritage takes a significant amount of time. (I assume you agree.)
4. See point number 2.
5. Upon receipt from Heritage, resale by the bidder to this particular ebay (scumbag) seller would take a couple days bare minimum. (scumbag = my opinion)
6. See point number 2.
7. Three potential scenarios then exist, i.e. either the seller (or seller's representative) was the bidder in the Heritage auctions, or the seller bought both coins from the person who was the bidder in the Heritage auctions, or pigs can fly. (Maybe you agree.)
8. See point number 2.
9. Let point number 2 sink in some more.
Q.E.D.
And if you disagree with me, then you sir are worse than Hitler.
<< <i>
In this case, and sadly so given his age and expertise, the information disclosed about the seller militates against any possible future dealings with him. >>
Is that in regards to me? I'm the one who's 17, not the seller.
<< <i>OK, so we have one group of the opinion that third party grading is just that - an opinion. "Net graded" or problem coins are identified as such with some degree of subjectiveness; eventually cracking such coins out of their holders and selling them without any disclosure of the prior professional opinion is acceptable business practice.
The other side says that failure to disclose any material information, even information that is subjective and "just the opinion of the grading company" is tantamount to fraud.
The first opinion presupposes an educated and knowledgable market, capable of reaching their own conclusions - even from photographs. The second attempts to hold sellers to a higher standard of disclosure, more on the level of, say, real estate disclosure.
My opinion is that I need as much information as possible prior to any purchase. This information is not limited to the coin itself; the reputation of a seller, my past dealings and others' reports of past dealings factor in as well.
In this case, and sadly so given his age and expertise, the information disclosed about the seller militates against any possible future dealings with him. >>
The topic of "disclosure" has been discussed many, many times.
Here's my take:
Of course, grading is subjective, and so is the designation of problems. If you have a coin you think is a 65, but resides in a 64 holder, and you crack the coin out and sell it as a raw Gem, trying to get 65 money, that's fine by me, as long as accurate photos are provided.
If you have a coin graded as having a problem, and you believe the coin is worthy of stright-grading, and you decide to crack out it and sell it raw, that's ok too, once again provided that you supply good images.
Now if you purchase a large quantity of problem coins, crack some of them out (it's certainly possible there were some coins the seller still has in ANACS and NCS holders that he's decided to not crack), and give a false story about the coin's origins, that crosses the line IMO.
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
OTOH, Will is as sharp as they come, irrespective of age.
As far as the coins in question go, I think that you can probably infer from my post how I feel. Regardless of the sellers' age.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I agree. The grandpa story may be bs (unless Grandpa bought them from Heritage and then passed away recently), but he didn't misrepresent them as problem free, started at $.99 and offers a return policy. No big deal.
$6767
This dont sit well with me
<< <i>on heritage
on ebay
on heritage
on ebay
Check out all his other auctions too.... same thing. >>
wait a minute- who was that one seller that was unloading a boatload of 'inherited' stuff labeled FDR in the old paper flips, or sumthin like that- same area of the country folks.... he was a big thing here on the boards last year if not mistaken...
but this is just plain dishonest
frank Im sorry-maybe you were just playing devils advocate- but no joke this is just plain theft
-joe
I sent an email to see if I could me in a public place to examine the coin .
Reply was a flat NO , because she or he said the coins were in Frankfort ( about a 20 - 30 minutes)
at her mothers or grandmothers house ..
I wanted to see it in hand because something just said cleaned (though it looked nice)
Dan