Is there an exact numer when a coin becomes rare?
stinkinlincoln
Posts: 2,733 ✭
Questions in the title.
Also, is there a general number for scarce?
Also, is there a general number for scarce?
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R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique"
R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare"
R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare"
R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"
R4 = 76-200 known, "Very Scarce"
R3 = 201-500 known, "Scarce"
they have points in their scale where rare becomes used as its term
rare...,
we all kinda assess our own likes to how we apply it
rare also has it's varied applications
condition rarity...designation rarity...issue rarity...surviving rarity
but to your question
sneldon as bowers claimed their rare point as i've my own
<< <i>Is there an exact numer when a coin becomes rare? >>
No.
most coins which are listed as rare are only scarce, with truly rare coins being past the collectibility of the average collector. many coins listed by sellers and generally thought of as rare in the collecting community are actually common, coins such as the '09-S VDB and '16-D Merc being the two most commonly fitting into this category. that's one of the things that makes the hobby fun. in my mind there is actual rarity and a hobby-inspired "i gotta have it" rarity, with the latter being one which essentially says i gotta have it but since everyone else does too i can't afford it so it's rare. at even a mid-size show both coins can be found in a range of grades/prices and due to there noteriety are easier to find them some otherwise "common" coins.
there also exists animals which are grade rarities but that's an entirely different thread topic.
Let's say, as an example, you are looking for a 1935S Walker in a PCGS MS65 holder. But, you not only want it to be one of the 281 that have been slabbed by PCGS----you want the coin to have "original skin"----and some NT toning as well. How many of those approx. 281 coins can fit your wants and needs?? After looking for 2--3 years, does the coin start to "sort of bother you"---because you HAVE NOT seen any examples?
What about after looking for 5 years?? Is the coin "scarce" then? Or maybe it is just a bit "rarer" or "unavailable"? Or maybe you just have not been at the right place at the right time? What about putting out the word that you need one----don't care about the price that you might need to pay for it. And---you still CAN"T find one that you like. A couple or more "white" ones are around. But, they are NOT what you want.
To this collector, when you have done this for a particularly needed coin---your brain cells at some point MUST kick in and say, "it ought to be there but isn't---therefore, the coin is a sleeper and one to be highly prized". Then, one day, a very good coin buddy sends you a PM---and, you foolishly pay retail for a beauty that he found for you on a dealer's websight.
But, the key then is to keep looking for the coin. In two more years after that---you still have NOT found another one. You are still smiling that you bought the coin. You still DON"T care that you know that you still paid too much money for it.
Is that 1935S Walker a "scarce" coin?? A "rare" coin?? Just "difficult to locate"?? Just a "sleeper"?? A true Walker person knows what the coin is---that is "WHY" the money just didn't matter. There are many coins---within many series---that will sort of fit this theory. When you finally do see one, when will you see another one that fits the bill?? Bob [supertooth]
1. I don't think rarity has anything to do with how long do you have to look for a particular coin. There's too much subjectivity involved here. During your search, you may find many coins in a particular type, date and grade, but if they don't suit your exact desires, then you pass.
2. Similarly, just because I don't like most coins I see of a particular type, date and grade, this doesn't make them rare. It can make my search frustrating after a while though.
3. Insisting that a particular coin be of a certain grade (i.e., I must have a 1935S Walker in a PCGS MS65 holder) is not the best way to go about searching and building a collection, in my opinion. You may miss that otherwise perfect coin that currently resides in a 64 holder...best of all, it may actually be undergraded.
URS-0 NONE
URS-1 ONE, UNIQUE
URS-2 TWO
URS-3 3 or 4
URS-4 5-8
URS-5 9-16
URS-6 17-32
URS-7 33-64
URS-8 65-125
URS-9 126-250
URS-10 251-500
URS-11 501-1K
URS-12 1,001-2K
URS-13 2,001-4K
URS-14 4,001-8K
URS-15 8,001-16K
URS-16 16,001-32K
URS-17 32,001-65K
URS-18 65,001-125K
URS-19 125,001-250K
URS-20 250,001-500K
URS-21 500,001-1 MILLION
URS-22 1,000,001-2 MILLION
(etc.)
I guess maybe I could have added----Hunting for a 37S or a 39S Walker is "much easier". Those coins are fairly available for reasonable monies. But, not so, for the 35S coin. It is the kind of thing that you find out about a series after you have spent years with that series. JMHO of course. Bob [supertooth]
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
For better date seated coins I've always figured total existing pops under 100-125 coins is rare. Across the various denominations there are a dozen or two dates that meet that requirement.
.... However, I recently overheard a comment on a bourse floor which perhaps best describes the term 'rare'. It was stated that a coin is truly 'rare' when no amount of money can buy one. All known examples are closely held by collectors and not available for purchase....
I don't know if that's rare or just "unobtainable." To meet that definition today the coin might be one of the following: J-1776, 1877 Smithsonian $50 Unions, and similar rarities. Even so, I can think of few coins that aren't permanently impounded where a "stupid" price would not release the coin. Even J-1776 might be made available to you if you wanted pay say $20 MILL or even $50-$100 MILL. The Smithsonian is not parting with their $50 Unions so no amount of money is going to get them. Then again.....if you had $10 TRILL, the president just might be willing to make an exception since you will help balance the budget for the next 5-10 yrs.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>.... However, I recently overheard a comment on a bourse floor which perhaps best describes the term 'rare'. It was stated that a coin is truly 'rare' when no amount of money can buy one. All known examples are closely held by collectors and not available for purchase.... >>
I don't know if that's rare or just "unobtainable." To meet that definition today the coin might be one of the following: J-1776, 1877 Smithsonian $50 Unions, and similar rarities. Even so, I can think of few coins that aren't permanently impounded where a "stupid" price would not release the coin. Even J-1776 might be made available to you if you wanted pay say $20 MILL or even $50-$100 MILL. The Smithsonian is not parting with their $50 Unions so no amount of money is going to get them. Then again.....if you had $10 TRILL, the president just might be willing to make an exception since you will help balance the budget for the next 5-10 yrs.
roadrunner >>
I agree. The ability to acquire a piece is different than the absolute number of survivors. With respect to the ability to acquire, the US Government may be one of the strongest hands of all. There are modern examples as well, including the 12 flown gold Sacs, which are closely held and difficult for collectors to obtain. Although these 12 are unobtainable, are they more rare than something that occasionally changes hands between collectors with fewer survivors?
<< <i>The Smithsonian is not parting with their $50 Unions so no amount of money is going to get them. Then again.....if you had $10 TRILL, the president just might be willing to make an exception since you will help balance the budget for the next 5-10 yrs.
>>
I bet he would do it for $10 billion, not trillion. After all, they have two of them, they can let one go for the right price
I've always placed 'absolute' rarity at the 100-150 mark for most US series.
<< <i>does anyone really think "Rarity" is defined in any way as to how easy a coin can be found?? i thought it was generally accepted to mean how many exist or are believed to exist. just because a coin is dificult to locate in a specific grade or because all the known examples are unobtainable, should the rarity be affected or even a matter of concern?? what really matters is absolute known examples. >>
Agree 100%. The 1909 svdb is not rare. Nor is the 1907 HR double eagle.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Now consider 75 people and 40 coins. That is rare indeed.
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
Rare also implies unmet demand. So if there are 40 people who collect something and there are 75 examples known, the remaining 35 languishing in inventory are not rare.
Now consider 75 people and 40 coins. That is rare indeed.
I've collected coins for 50 years .. True Rarity is based upon the number that still exist .. not demand nor price !
take care .. tj
www.jankovsky.net
Here is a coin I have .. high demand but it is not Ex. Rare !
"many contacts among the Lumberjacks "
NGC Registry AOEDAD sets:
Set #1 Major Expositions
Set #2 So-called Dollar Collections
So-called $50 Slug Facsimiles
Bashlow re-strikes
1 to 500 million VERY RARE L@@K
500 million to 2 billion ULTRA RARE
Over 2 billion EXTREMELY RARE