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Don't be a Slave to the Sheet!

JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I've heard this may times around a coin show,,,

What does it mean to you?

Comments

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought it was street slang and "sheet" was misspelled. image
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    I said to a dealer, "stop being a slave to the sheet", and he told me, "the sheet doesn't buy coins, I do!" image


    To me it means the dealers, when being offered a coin, should try looking at the coin for a change and stop buying graded plastic.

    I'm tired of offering dealers a PQ coin and being offered the same money as anything else that just happen to land in a holder with the same grade on the label.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The great majority of dealers don't pay premiums for PQ coins. If they can't buy it cheap they don't buy it at all.


    All glory is fleeting.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's a comment that's directed more toward collectors who are trying to buy coins from dealers. When a dealer has a really, no-kidding, great coin and they want a lot for it, collectors balk because the sale price is multiples of the listed values in either the Grey or Blue Sheet.

    Then again, I could be wrong. After all, I rarely collect "sheet" coins and don't pay attention to it much.
  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it's a comment that's directed more toward collectors who are trying to buy coins from dealers. When a dealer has a really, no-kidding, great coin and they want a lot for it, collectors balk because the sale price is multiples of the listed values in either the Grey or Blue Sheet. >>



    That's what I thought the comment meant too, and I think it's really good advice.

    However, the previous comment about many dealers not wanting to pay over sheet even for those really, no-kidding, great coins should also be considered when the collector needs to sell the coin.

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448

  • RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077 ✭


    << <i>Don't be a Slave to the Sheet! >>




    My girlfriend use to tell me I was "a Slave to the Sheets".

    Is that the same thing?




    image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it's a comment that's directed more toward collectors who are trying to buy coins from dealers. When a dealer has a really, no-kidding, great coin and they want a lot for it, collectors balk because the sale price is multiples of the listed values in either the Grey or Blue Sheet.

    Then again, I could be wrong. After all, I rarely collect "sheet" coins and don't pay attention to it much. >>



    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's better to buy the coin and forget haggling over price.
    I did pick up a 1921 and 1921 D Merc dime(s). 10% back of greysheet on Friday thanks to a nice gesture. I pointed out a rim ding and saved $20 after asking for the price on both. image

    The sheet doesn't apply. The man (or woman, in this case) behind the counter has the final word.
  • soty27soty27 Posts: 1,956
    I collect toned morgans. Grey sheet has NO bearing on price when it comes to these. If I could find monster toned morgans at grey sheet or even pcgs book price I would buy them all. These morgans always sell for several times greysheet. I try to buy as close to grey sheet but that rarely happens.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is dealers don't want collectors to be a slave to the sheet but, when offered a coin by a collector, the dealer will whip out the sheet (usually the blue) to tell the seller what he's willing to pay.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BillyGoatsGruffBillyGoatsGruff Posts: 640
    Here's the slant:

    You bring a coin to your local coin dealer to sell and they examine it. The dealer then looks at the generic type list, then the date list to see which is lower. If that's too high, they then whip out the blue sheet to get closer to what they want to pay. If that, too, is high they say, "Greysheet has yet to correct, this area has softened, so I would pay 30 percent back" (of the lowest price of course).

    Reverse this scenario if you want to buy a coin.....

    BGG
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What does it mean to you? >>


    Same as it always does, use it as one guideline when buying or selling; consider each coins' attributes, and use your market knowledge and experience.
    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good to know, Maybe that is why I stopped walking around with a sheet in my hand about 6 years ago trying to act like I knew what I was doing and finding plenty of dealers willing to sell me crap at the sheet price. Grey sheets should be made on softer paper so they would be more beneficial to all.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe that is why I stopped walking around with a sheet in my hand about 6 years ago trying to act like I knew what I was doing and finding plenty of dealers willing to sell me crap at the sheet price. >>


    This reminds me of one of the dealer's at our monthly show....he loves to boast that he sells at coins at GS Bid....however, this only applies to his raw coin inventory, and (problem coins aside), most of these are overgraded. Early walkers in solid F graded VF, bust coinage in VF graded XF, etc. Appears to be a scheme used to ensnare those collectors who feel entitled to buying at 'sheet prices' that works in his favor....
    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,523 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the fact that some coins are worth multiples of sheet and some coins are worth way back of sheet is the situation that causes the comment in the OP. I think the following true situation illustrates the concept perfectly:

    I had two coins of the same denomination, both common dates, both graded by the same service in the same grade. Coin "A" had a lot of eye appeal and I paid nearly triple sheet for it. Coin "B" coin met the technical grade, but was ugly (even the person who sold it to me agreed with that assessment). A collector stopped by my table and asked why he couldn't buy coin "A" at sheet. I explained that I had paid nearly triple sheet for it because of its eye appeal, but if he wanted to buy a coin at sheet, he could buy coin "B". Sorry, no sale. Later a dealer came by and explained that he had a customer who loves to buy MS type coins at sheet but won't pay more, so he bought coin "B" at about 20% back of bid to sell to his customer.

    Most dealers have the ability and inclination to look at the coin inside the slab to see if the coin is nice or not, and they price the slab accordingly (except for generics and moderns). For the customer who only buys coins at sheet, what kind of coins does he/she likely own?
    (a) All of them are PQ for the grade, with a lot of eye appeal, and they will sell for a premium when they are sold,
    (b) An even mix of PQ, average, and doggy coins,
    (c) One or two PQ coins, some average coins, but mostly doggy coins that will sell well under bid when they are sold.
    My guess is (c). And this customer, I would say, is "a slave to the sheet".

    Note: Everyone has a different approach to collecting. If the above situation shows your approach to collecting, I wish you the best and more power to you. My point in this post is not to criticize that approach, but to illustrate the concept of being "a slave to the sheet".

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The above comments by Rich are dead on, and my same thought. There are several folks incl some dealers who live and die by the sheet. Doing this will cause you to loose out both on the buying side by trying to by exceptional coins, or scarce coins at sheet, or overpaying for stuff that the sheet is still too high above real market.

    A dealer across town is perfect example, he has stuff just sitting around not selling becuase it is psuedo keys and stuff that has been inflated in the CDN from the past bull run, that has softened a great deal (real market), but then will get in something like early type /scarce and price it according to sheet (with mark up of cousre) and leave $$ on the table.

    jim
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486 ✭


    << <i>The great majority of dealers don't pay premiums for PQ coins. If they can't buy it cheap they don't buy it at all. >>



    I wouldn't agree with this 100%, but there is an element of truth here.
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    There are some extraordinary coins out there that

    the best attitude is "NOT TO GIVE A SHEET" when it

    comes to a price.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭


    << <i>I thought it was street slang and "sheet" was misspelled. image >>



    That's funny image
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sheets are merely something reduced to writing suggesting values. Sticking to the scrip can get you stuck if the coin is a pos. Not all coins are equal and often are not graded equally- look at what you are buying and keep your own notes on how often you see coins in certain grades. Unfortunately, sheets can play a role that is more destructive because it locks in a mentality about buying and selling coins that is clearly inconsistent with the ability to buy and sell quality worth owning.

    Everyone should have some methodology to buying that should really be a work in progress based on a continued search for coins- what have they experienced in terms of availability, quality for the grade and pricing which is predicated on those factors

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    The only people that should be slave to the sheet are sailors image
  • BillyGoatsGruffBillyGoatsGruff Posts: 640


    << <i>There are some extraordinary coins out there that

    the best attitude is "NOT TO GIVE A SHEET" when it

    comes to a price.image >>




    I like Bear's comment the best...
    BGG
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Those that throw away the sheet when they buy coins will be in for a rude awakening when they sell these coins because most dealers don't throw away the sheet.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The great majority of dealers don't pay premiums for PQ coins. If they can't buy it cheap they don't buy it at all. >>



    I wouldn't agree with this 100%, but there is an element of truth here. >>



    "An element of truth"? Come on, when have you ever seen a dealer pay a premium for any numismatic item without being pushed to do so?

    I've been collecting since 1961, coins, stamps, paper money, and can't think of even one time when a dealer paid a premium amount for a premium item without being prodded to do so. The great majority won't pay a premium period because that is how their business plan operates. If they can't get it cheap, they don't buy it.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The great majority won't pay a premium period because that is how their business plan operates. If they can't get it cheap, they don't buy it. >>


    I think this would be better phrased as 'if they can't buy it at a price that they think they can make a profit it on it, they won't buy it all'.....I also think that as better coins have migrated into stronger, more knowledgeable hands over the years, the dealers who don't or won't pay up for PQ coins aren't being offered many....they are going to auction houses, or dealers like Legend, Harry Laibstain, etc. How many PQ coins do you see at your typical one day show? There is only one fellow at our monthly show who regular carries PQ material, and he pays over sheet for most it. Would he like to buy them cheaper? Heck yes - wouldn't anyone?
    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug

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