PAN show report, too long as always.
kranky
Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
The PAN show is the PA state club show, held in the spring and fall in Pittsburgh, with about 70 or so dealers. The spring show is normally on Mothers' Day weekend but due to a temporary change in venue it had to be held this weekend (Memorial Day weekend). The combo of a holiday weekend, the show moving 30 miles away to a new location on the other side of town, and a wheezing economy had me wondering if it was going to be a bust. But it turned out to be reasonably well attended after all. The new location was larger and that made it tough to assess whether attendance was up, down or even, but if it was lighter, it wasn't by very much. I was helping out at PTVETTER's table.
Where attendance was measurably lighter was in the number of dealers. I'd estimate there were about a dozen or so fewer dealers than usual, and in the old location the venue was always sold out or nearly so. I believe the holiday weekend was the primary reason for some dealers sitting out. It was nice to see some familiar board members including ksteelheader and his wife, RickMilauskas and his chocolate-fueled son
, vam44, mar327, and perennial board lurkers Bob & Judy. Also met jfoot13 for the first time which was nice.
ksteelheader came up and threatened jokingly to "cherrypick your (butt)" and it only took him about 5 minutes to find a nice raw Washington quarter he wanted. While writing it up I flipped it over and checked... yep, Type B. You called your shot, Ken.
Having helped a few times at this show, I noticed some differences in what the collectors were buying. No one asked about proof sets - not a single person. A couple years ago there was typically 15-20 customers over the weekend buying specific years if they were available. People wanted the 2009 Proof ASE (not released yet), price-shopped for 2009 Lincolns and Unc ASEs, a few people were looking for 2009 quarters thinking there will be low mintages, but where I saw them available they were selling for 2x face by the roll. It also seemed that there were some people who had stepped away from coins for a while but are getting back in. Also had a lot of people looking for gold ASEs and bulk silver but were price-sensitive.
PAN is very supportive of kids and has programs on Saturday especially for them. They can grab a handful of coins when they enter, there's a "Kids Zone" with Whitman cent folders and huge piles of wheat cents where the kids can take a Whitman and fill as many holes as they want, then take the folders with them. The dealers donate the wheat cents. There was also 2 programs - one on ancients with great exhibits and an award-winning speaker, and one on what slabbing is all about.
A couple anecdotes from the bourse...
We had 13 raw Walkers all MS64, a couple different dates but all priced the same. A customer wanted to look at them, which he did for a very long time, studying each one carefully. When it was all done, he found just one he bought and commented he didn't really like any of the others, and I think this is why: he was using a 10x loupe. That's too powerful for looking at coins.
One customer wanted to see the back of a NGC no-line fatty (I figured he was looking for the rare slab variety with the stamped hologram on the inside of the slab) - in fact, that was his exact request... "Can I see the back of that slab?" Wasn't the rare kind, but we started talking about slab varieties. Another dealer was at the table while we talked about slabs and the customer mentioned the Regency slab. The dealer jumped in and asked what a Regency slab was, and the customer explained it. The dealer said, "I just cracked a <coin> out of one of those trying for an upgrade." The customer said, "Those slabs are worth about $500." Dealer: "What coin?" Customer: "Any coin in that slab." Dealer, now a little pale: "Uh... if I find one, where can I get $500 for it?"
One customer was making the rounds asking if there were any MS67 Morgans. Don't think he found any.
A North Carolina dealer who was walking the floor selling to dealers had an impressive inventory. I peeked over Pat's shoulder as he was looking through the boxes and saw 3 PR67CAM Morgans, plus a very nice proof 20c piece, I think it was a 66 with sweet peripheral toning. Not every coin was a blockbuster but overall more really knockout coins than I've ever seen at this show in one dealer's hands.
Another dealer distributed flyers to other dealers' tables offering a lot of 40 1909-S VDB coins (also available singly).
One customer pointed to a slabbed MS65 type coin and said, "I have a slabbed 2 cent piece in the same grade. When they grade them, do they grade both sides? Because the back of mine isn't as nice as the front."
I think I saw exactly one CAC stickered coin at the show, although I didn't closely examine every dealer's case.
I saw one customer (not a dealer) walk up to a table and buy over $11,000 worth of bulk silver, then ask if the dealer had any gold.
Where attendance was measurably lighter was in the number of dealers. I'd estimate there were about a dozen or so fewer dealers than usual, and in the old location the venue was always sold out or nearly so. I believe the holiday weekend was the primary reason for some dealers sitting out. It was nice to see some familiar board members including ksteelheader and his wife, RickMilauskas and his chocolate-fueled son
, vam44, mar327, and perennial board lurkers Bob & Judy. Also met jfoot13 for the first time which was nice.ksteelheader came up and threatened jokingly to "cherrypick your (butt)" and it only took him about 5 minutes to find a nice raw Washington quarter he wanted. While writing it up I flipped it over and checked... yep, Type B. You called your shot, Ken.
Having helped a few times at this show, I noticed some differences in what the collectors were buying. No one asked about proof sets - not a single person. A couple years ago there was typically 15-20 customers over the weekend buying specific years if they were available. People wanted the 2009 Proof ASE (not released yet), price-shopped for 2009 Lincolns and Unc ASEs, a few people were looking for 2009 quarters thinking there will be low mintages, but where I saw them available they were selling for 2x face by the roll. It also seemed that there were some people who had stepped away from coins for a while but are getting back in. Also had a lot of people looking for gold ASEs and bulk silver but were price-sensitive.
PAN is very supportive of kids and has programs on Saturday especially for them. They can grab a handful of coins when they enter, there's a "Kids Zone" with Whitman cent folders and huge piles of wheat cents where the kids can take a Whitman and fill as many holes as they want, then take the folders with them. The dealers donate the wheat cents. There was also 2 programs - one on ancients with great exhibits and an award-winning speaker, and one on what slabbing is all about.
A couple anecdotes from the bourse...
We had 13 raw Walkers all MS64, a couple different dates but all priced the same. A customer wanted to look at them, which he did for a very long time, studying each one carefully. When it was all done, he found just one he bought and commented he didn't really like any of the others, and I think this is why: he was using a 10x loupe. That's too powerful for looking at coins.
One customer wanted to see the back of a NGC no-line fatty (I figured he was looking for the rare slab variety with the stamped hologram on the inside of the slab) - in fact, that was his exact request... "Can I see the back of that slab?" Wasn't the rare kind, but we started talking about slab varieties. Another dealer was at the table while we talked about slabs and the customer mentioned the Regency slab. The dealer jumped in and asked what a Regency slab was, and the customer explained it. The dealer said, "I just cracked a <coin> out of one of those trying for an upgrade." The customer said, "Those slabs are worth about $500." Dealer: "What coin?" Customer: "Any coin in that slab." Dealer, now a little pale: "Uh... if I find one, where can I get $500 for it?"
One customer was making the rounds asking if there were any MS67 Morgans. Don't think he found any.
A North Carolina dealer who was walking the floor selling to dealers had an impressive inventory. I peeked over Pat's shoulder as he was looking through the boxes and saw 3 PR67CAM Morgans, plus a very nice proof 20c piece, I think it was a 66 with sweet peripheral toning. Not every coin was a blockbuster but overall more really knockout coins than I've ever seen at this show in one dealer's hands.
Another dealer distributed flyers to other dealers' tables offering a lot of 40 1909-S VDB coins (also available singly).
One customer pointed to a slabbed MS65 type coin and said, "I have a slabbed 2 cent piece in the same grade. When they grade them, do they grade both sides? Because the back of mine isn't as nice as the front."
I think I saw exactly one CAC stickered coin at the show, although I didn't closely examine every dealer's case.
I saw one customer (not a dealer) walk up to a table and buy over $11,000 worth of bulk silver, then ask if the dealer had any gold.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
0
Comments
"If you want both sides graded, you have to pay double"
"pay triple the grading fees, and they'll do the edge too,,
and put it in one of those new edge-view holders!"
EVERYONE STARTS SOMEWHERE.
might as well be a two-cent piece.
GREAT REPORT, Thanks
The quality of the world coins was also better. Saw a lot more Mexican coinage and a lot more 18th and 19th century world coinage. One table that stood out was a dealer with U.S. cents from the late 1700's into the 1800's. He had some beautiful stuff and was very nice to me when asking questions. I know nothing of these coins and he put up with me and my Father for about 20 minutes. Great guy. Also saw some hobo nickels and some neat love tokens. I was impressed with the show overall and was very happy to see it becoming very well rounded. I'm very exited about the next one.
The Forum always enjoys reading the perceptions of members
attending a show.
Camelot
<< <i> It was nice to see some familiar board members including ksteelheader and his wife, RickMilauskas
>>
<< <i> The dealer jumped in and asked what a Regency slab was, and the customer explained it. The dealer said, "I just cracked a <coin> out of one of those trying for an upgrade." The customer said, "Those slabs are worth about $500." Dealer: "What coin?" Customer: "Any coin in that slab." Dealer, now a little pale: "Uh... if I find one, where can I get $500 for it?"
>>
While I can understand many dealers avoiding posting here, and all the attacks that would be likely, in this day and age, if a dealer isn't on this board or the ngc board, and at least following trends that way, then they are losing out bigtime. This just goes to show it. Imho, not a smart dealer.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I too don't recall any collectors looking through proof sets. I do recall someone trying to sell a 1954 proof set to a dealer without much luck.
I was looking for PCGS graded Liberty $2.50's but didn't find many. I did go home with a nice upgrade for my 1873 $2.50 Closed 3 plus my first Engelhard 10 ounce bar.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
<< <i>While I can understand many dealers avoiding posting here, and all the attacks that would be likely, in this day and age, if a dealer isn't on this board or the ngc board, and at least following trends that way, then they are losing out bigtime. This just goes to show it. Imho, not a smart dealer. >>
There are many dealers that post here and I don't remember any of them being attacked.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Thanks for a great report. Did the customer who bought 11 k of bulk silver get it for spot? Out of general curiosity is a "show" a good venue to get precious metals at spot? I assume most dealers will have acquired their silver and gold for under spot and obviously would try to unload it for over spot at their own retail venues, but since a customer can just go down the aisle at a show does it work to the advantage of the buyer? >>
I would think that a buyer could do better at a show since it's a more competitive atmosphere and the buyer can do some comparison shopping. When you buy silver at a B&M shop it a monopoly and the dealer sometimes has a "take it or leave it" attitude.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Thanks for a great report. Did the customer who bought 11 k of bulk silver get it for spot? Out of general curiosity is a "show" a good venue to get precious metals at spot? I assume most dealers will have acquired their silver and gold for under spot and obviously would try to unload it for over spot at their own retail venues, but since a customer can just go down the aisle at a show does it work to the advantage of the buyer? >>
From what I saw, bulk silver was going for 10% over spot wherever prices were posted.
<< <i>As to the customer that looked at the 16 raw walkers and only chose one to buy and said he disliked the other 15 because he used a 10x loupe, well I don't know if that was the only reason, but using 10x mag in order to compare against others or to help one decide is a smart thing imho. >>
I think 10x is too powerful unless you're looking for varieties. For evaluating grades, it's too much.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>As to the customer that looked at the 16 raw walkers and only chose one to buy and said he disliked the other 15 because he used a 10x loupe, well I don't know if that was the only reason, but using 10x mag in order to compare against others or to help one decide is a smart thing imho. >>
I agree.
I've been using a 10X triplet loupe all my life and would be totally lost and without any confidence whatsoever if I were to go to a coin show without it.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
We left and headed to Ohio for a wedding. On Saturday morning, we took an hour and one half drive up to Cleveland to see Keets. I managed to cherry a nice cam/dcam 67Washington.
<< <i>T'was a good show. Nice seeing everyone again.
We left and headed to Ohio for a wedding. On Saturday morning, we took an hour and one half drive up to Cleveland to see Keets. I managed to cherry a nice cam/dcam 67Washington.
Wow, small world. Saturday I was in Cleveland as well. We spent the morning at the downtown Market. Almost like a coin show for those looking for choice fruit, meats, and treats. The afternoon was spent at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History. Came across this unique "collection."
It was nice meeting you there Ken... I had you pictured as a big guy, didn't realize you were only 5'3" and I could about look you in the eyes...
Just kidding! He's actually built like the Hulk and almost as green! Your wife Carol is a sweetheart; it was good to meet her, too.
Thank you for the gift you brought me, I'll post it later to show what a generous fella you are.
I just missed RickMilauskas - Kranky came and got me to introduce us, but by the time I got over that way, he was going out the door - I can't run that fast any more!
<< <i>That VW Beetle is toooo much - hysterical!
It was nice meeting you there Ken... I had you pictured as a big guy, didn't realize you were only 5'3" and I could about look you in the eyes...
Just kidding! He's actually built like the Hulk and almost as green! Your wife Carol is a sweetheart; it was good to meet her, too.
Thank you for the gift you brought me, I'll post it later to show what a generous fella you are.
I just missed RickMilauskas - Kranky came and got me to introduce us, but by the time I got over that way, he was going out the door - I can't run that fast any more! >>
Here is a picture of Carol and I at the wedding reception on Sunday at Chippewa Lake. Hint: Carol is the same height as Marlene.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
A little help for the newbies, can you provide a explanation/background of the Regency slab and perhaps a picture? Thanks, and thanks for the report from the PAN show!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
K
<< <i> including ksteelheader and his wife, RickMilauskas >>