I've decided to only buy coins additionally certified by CAC
dizzyfoxx
Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
....Now, before I get tarred & feathered and strung up by boot heels, I'm only thinking out loud as to whether or not this may be the wave of the future in our hobby. Of course PCGS and NGC are the two most respected slabbers in the hobby IMO, and in following the CAC topics of discussion for quite a while now, it seems for the most part that they are becoming more and more an additional "800 lb. Gorilla" in the hobby. I, for one, also like to have that addtional 
regarding a coin and its' given grade.
regarding a coin and its' given grade. 
...There's always time for coin collecting. 
0
Comments
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
That's okay, but watch out. I have seen a lot of ugly coins with stickers.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i> it seems for the most part that they are becoming more and more an additional "800 lb. Gorilla" in the hobby. >>
I agree, I'm with Dizzy, he knows things.
I buy coins that appeal to me based upon my knowledge and the qualities I value in conjunction with my disposable income and anticipated income needs. Sometimes the slabs that house these coins have a CAC sticker and other times they do not. I do, though, allow CAC to inspect my coins and to place their stickers on my slabs as an added layer of insurance for my family should something happen to me that does not allow me to protect the financial investment we have made in numismatics. To me, that makes good sense.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now if CAC stickerd nice coins in third world holders,
that would be something useful perhaps, but what
a waste of money, and what an ugly piece of crap
you have to peel off and take the Goo-Gone to on
a PCGS or NGC holder.
JMHO, of course.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
But the opposite is also true and probably more important. That is, you will also miss out on a lot of big $$ losses. There are really very, very few great coins available. And in most cases they won't be offered to you in the first place or appear on dealer X's inventory. The great coins are on want lists or go to favored customers as soon as they are located. It's not so much about buying great coins as it is about avoiding the wrong coins.
For every coin you make a mistake on by buying it in the first place, it usually wipes out the gains made by several other good coins. You can request that any dealer send a coin off for CAC approval as a condition of you buying it. For $10-$30 why take just the opinion of a TPG and your dealer, esp. on coins worth hundreds or thousands of dollars? It's not like dealer's doors are being busted down by customers tripping over each other to buy their coins. Any dealer with a lick of sense would be happy to do this in the current market. You can even offer to pay or split the fee/postage if it CAC's. If it doesn't CAC, then the dealer pays all the fees. What better way for the dealer to prove their expertise that they can consistently pick the top coins. There are too many collectors giving too much credit to their dealer's skills as well as their own. The rude awakening comes when you finally have to sell something. And by then it's usually way too late.
CAC may not be fool proof, but I'd place my money on a coin I liked, the TPG liked, and CAC liked if given the option. There is no shortage of good coins both CAC'd or unCAC'd to challenge all but the deepest of pockets.
roadrunner
<< <i>Being as you ridiculed the CAC for the past two years, now would be a good time to apologize to the principals >>
Fair enough. I certainly wasn't a fan from the onset, but I think this can be said along the same lines as when slabbed grading first came out. I've never been a big fan of "change", but when I come the realization that a particular "change" is a good thing, I will certainly voice my opinion on it.
Collect what you like, like what you collect...but if you spend any significant money on coins, then buy whatever gives you the most peace of mind. It's all good.
<< <i>Why buy coins just buy stickers >>
That's what he is doing.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>An air of condescension is something I have become accustomed to on these boards with respect to CAC, so I also would not be surprised if you were to be flamed, questioned or ridiculed. In many ways, the CAC paradigm is not all that far removed from the TPG paradigm. However, I believe some of the folks who sit tall in the saddle when commenting snidely on the CAC would not have the courage to pour as much money into their hobby as they do if the TPGs were not there to mitigate the risk.
I buy coins that appeal to me based upon my knowledge and the qualities I value in conjunction with my disposable income and anticipated income needs. Sometimes the slabs that house these coins have a CAC sticker and other times they do not. I do, though, allow CAC to inspect my coins and to place their stickers on my slabs as an added layer of insurance for my family should something happen to me that does not allow me to protect the financial investment we have made in numismatics. To me, that makes good sense. >>
As usual, a 100% reasoned and intellectual response. Great advice, especially to those who do not see this hobby as an investment.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
If that is what you like go for it...
There will always be the party poopers to rain on your parade...
There are always those negative people...so many on these boards....
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
OK.
For example, someone could post that they like NGC's new holders, while I think those tabs are butt ugly, and I might say so in a response, but I wouldn't say the person obviously cannot fathom the difference between beauty and butt-ugly. Responses to this post suggesting you are then just collecting "stickers" are in the same league as the latter uncivil response.
Good luck in your decision, but I agree with those who suggest you will end up missing out on potential very nice acquisitions, simply because they lack a sticker.
.......of course buy what you want. my question is, WHERE does it end? what happens if another entity arrives on the seen that GRADES CAC? how big will the slab have to be to have room for all the "umpires" stickers?
It just seems like the same ol' thing happening with the approval of such coins.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
expensive coins, stickered or not.
Audio
edited to add:
I don't care if a coin is "CAC'd" or not but I would never pay a premium for it.
<< <i>If you have to be asked this question, you have no business buying
expensive coins, stickered or not.
Audio >>
What's the question Frank?
But, as I see CAC stickered coins I have always agreed with the sticker and consequently the slab grade (and I know there are those of you who haven't) - but when you've been around as long as I have, stickers are kind of redundant if you've made yourself a decent grader. It's probably re-assuring to the newer collector- but I still wonder about the counterfitting aspect.
Bottom line, they're your coins and your hobby, do what makes you happy!
Pete
Louis Armstrong
I feel that if you ONLY buy coins that are stickered, although CAC has done quite a few... your gonna limit your search.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, I've decided to buy only pedigreed coins...and I'm sure many people would not agree with that decision either.
Collect what you like, like what you collect...but if you spend any significant money on coins, then buy whatever gives you the most peace of mind. It's all good. >>
I am not certain if you are serious or possibly making fun of collectors that do, but just for the record I try to buy pedigreed coins all the time, unfortunately there are times when the coin is great and I can't make the pedigree, but I buy them any way
1. I am serious...see my sig line.
2. I don't make fun of other collectors. I do call them noodleheads sometimes though.
3. I know you buy pedigreed coins and I'd love to see your collection.
4. The pedigree...or the grade on the slab...or the CAC sticker...should not make up for a coin that has no eye appeal to you or does not fit in your collection. It's still all about the coin.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
If you're collecting $100 or $200 coins then it makes no sense at all to me. If you add the cost of the slab plus the cost of the green bean plus all the shipping every whichaway you can end up increasing your cost basis to the point where you'll almost guarantee you'll lose money. And if you're collecting with no intention to sell, does the sticker make it prettier to look at?
Example - I had an ANACS AU 50 1909-S Lincoln for my 1909 mint set. I knew it wasn't a 50 (I thought it was a 40 myself) and paid for it accordingly. I wanted it in my registry set and this quarter the PCGS collectors club special was for lincolns. So off it went. It went in a package with another submission so call it "free shipping" to PCGS. But then $8 handling fee and $20-ish for the return shipping - for a coin where greysheet bid is $200? That's more than 10% of the cost of the coin and that was a "free" submission. To send it off for a sticker is a bit much. Heck, the only reason it's in a PCGS slab is vanity about wanting to see it in a registry set
If you're sticking with the really high end then I agree with the OP it could make sense. If not then, well, I certainly like seeing the sticker on a coin I buy, but it doesn't factor too much into my buying decision.
-F
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
Has Albanese been here lately pushing CAC up everyones rump telling those who collect how great his service is compared to PCGS or NGC?
Why would you waste good money to a 4th party ( if it is already slabbed that is 3rd pty) to tell you the item is where it should be in the holder?
Sadly TPG's do not give you a ms64.58 or a 65.08- its an opinion as to what one sees in the coin.
If you can't rely on your judgment as to what you want in a item- then spend your money like a wild man, seriously why do anything else?
collect the coin, not the holder or the sticker, someday they will all be spendable again.
<< <i>
Example - I had an ANACS AU 50 1909-S Lincoln for my 1909 mint set. I knew it wasn't a 50 (I thought it was a 40 myself) and paid for it accordingly. I wanted it in my registry set and this quarter the PCGS collectors club special was for lincolns. So off it went. It went in a package with another submission so call it "free shipping" to PCGS. But then $8 handling fee and $20-ish for the return shipping - for a coin where greysheet bid is $200? That's more than 10% of the cost of the coin and that was a "free" submission. To send it off for a sticker is a bit much. Heck, the only reason it's in a PCGS slab is vanity about wanting to see it in a registry set
>>
Congrats on getting the your 1909-S graded.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>allow CAC to inspect my coins and to place their stickers on my slabs as an added layer of insurance for my family should something happen to me that does not allow me to protect the financial investment we have made in numismatics >>
Tom,
Your reply is well reasoned and I don't disagree. However, how do you (or others) feel CAC adds "insurance" to your investment? How are you assured a CAC coin will hold any better value?
Jim
Touché
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