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Bilderberg Group orders destruction of US Dollar
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ok.. lets see who will take that bet!
<< <i>it is hard to take that very seriously.. dump the dollar for the ruble and other currencies...
ok.. lets see who will take that bet! >>
I read it as the Rublle would be a part of a basket of currencies to comprise of some new index or currency. That one is not hard to believe.
From what I can tell, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It's all about what Bilderberg Group wants.
<< <i>
<< <i>it is hard to take that very seriously.. dump the dollar for the ruble and other currencies...
ok.. lets see who will take that bet! >>
I read it as the Rublle would be a part of a basket of currencies to comprise of some new index or currency. That one is not hard to believe.
From what I can tell, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It's all about what Bilderberg Group wants. >>
yer, people will probably jump on board if the dollar is the majority
of the basket along with the euro.. the ruble will be like 3%.
and as for this group of people do they admit the newly rich from
the tech areas and other situations? do they kick out members who
lost their billions?
after reading the article i ask myself why in the world would a bunch
of rich and connected people want to destroy what made them rich
and connected? the person who believes this stuff is not a logical
person.
with articles like this i need my tin foil hat on tight. good luck!
> with articles like this i need my tin foil hat on tight. good luck!
Before it got poofed I was commenting, to those who believe Fort Knox is empty, conspiracy theorists wear rose colored glasses and see all the world in various shades of red. There is no point in trying to prove to them the sky actually appears blue.
after reading the article i ask myself why in the world would a bunch of rich and connected people want to destroy what made them rich and connected? the person who believes this stuff is not a logical person.
The Rothschilds have had their hand in the world's finances for centuries. One would have to think they had considerable hands in empowering the british pound and then taking it down. It would be foolish not to think they have been a major role player in the rise of the $USD since 1913. But paper currencies are only good for so long and then there's nothing else to suck out of them. The dollar is worth 95% less than what it was in 1913. The leveraging up of the world's financial system was done primarily through the NY City finanical centers with the USD as the primary conduit. You can be sure the powers behind these century long money shifts have their next course already planned. What they haven't already socked away in real estate, land, natural resources, and other physical wealth will flow into the next major currency, whatever that is.
The rich and connected ultimately destroy the very system that made them rich so that they can take another system that will give them even a bigger piece of the pie. Doesn't it seem odd that we've created the same type of monopolies and giant companies that ruled the world in the 1800's and then were taken down? Bigness just doesn't happen because of synergies or cost savings imo. And the creation of the FED just didn't happen to help the little people in times of bank runs, or to help in price stability, strength of currency, etc. If you go by that track record the FED it is one of the most dismal failures of the last 100 years as it hasn't achieved any of it's original publically statd goals. But it has probably achieved nearly every one of it's internal and non-transparent goals.
roadrunner
<< <i>
after reading the article i ask myself why in the world would a bunch
of rich and connected people want to destroy what made them rich
and connected? the person who believes this stuff is not a logical
person.
>>
Very rich people are often quite eccentric to downright insane. History is full of examples of rich people acting in strange, illogical ways.
The dollar is worth 95% of what it was in 1913
is an error, the dollar has LOST 95% since 1913 and is worth about 3-5% of what it bought then.
Ft Knox is not empty and few people claim it is. However, much of what was there 50 years ago is either gone or is being held for some other entity that purchased it or swapped for it.
If you dont undertsand swaps then read about it. The fed has made no secret that they swap gold and sell what the get while holding the gold in knox for someone else. They also lease gold out to thier banker buddies who sell it. The fed still shows it as "gold on deposit" although all they have is a promise to return it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
What a novel concept, actually having an audit of how these Wall street bankers are controlling the nations wealth. I'm sure they will fight that one hard.
I expecte the tin foil hat comments, but I do wonder what is it that you don't believe? do you not believe that the group exists? Do you not believe that the group has the power to do these things? do you not believe that these are the actual plans discussed at their last meeting?
There's more than enough evidence to prove that the group exists and meets regularly.
There's evidence that their plans the past that have leaked out have come to fruition - although this could be coincidence.
The only question for me is, is the report accurate, and is this something they can pull off, or is this something that might just happen anyway?
1. The US Government will have to sell 6 trillion dollars
worth of bonds backed by nothing but debt.
2. We hope in exchange to accept paymrnt in financial
instruments worth basically nothing.
3. Based upon the sale of these worthless bonds for
worthless money, the Treasury department will print
more money which will be of lessor value then worthless.
4. The newly printed less then worthless money will then be useD
to pay for such useless friviolities such as congress, as well as other
services and products, probably made in China.
5. Some day, very soon, everyone is going to want to turn in the pieces
of paper for something real like gold, silver, copper, platinum and oil. Perhaps
we could redeem the paper with soybeans. You can AT LEAST make things
FROM SOYBEANS and eat them, like bacon bits.
6. Barring 5 above, everyone will default on all debt as a Force Majure and everyone
will start over again after the period oflooting, pilaging, rape and cannibalism begins
to subside .
To think, that people are still concerned about the future direction of the coin market!!!!
Camelot
<< <i>The American people continue to remain, for the most part, blissfully unaware of catastrophe looming before them and continue to believe the litany of Orwellian lies being poured upon them by their propaganda media organs, never once raising any objection to trillions of dollars that have been stolen from them and which continues to flow the pockets of their political and corporate overlords intent upon destroying, forever, their once great Nation and which the US Federal Reserve Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman stated brazenly before the US Congress that she has “no idea” where $9 Trillion of US taxpayer has gone, or who got it.
...
to a desolate area and shoot them all. Then bulldoze them all
into a big hole in the ground and cover them up with dirt and plant
trees over them.
Camelot
Another interesting site
<< <i>I don't believe they want to TAKE the dollar down, I think they have accepted the fact that WE are taking the dollar down and they are just looking to transition accordingly.
The dollar is worth 95% of what it was in 1913
is an error, the dollar has LOST 95% since 1913 and is worth about 3-5% of what it bought then.
Ft Knox is not empty and few people claim it is. However, much of what was there 50 years ago is either gone or is being held for some other entity that purchased it or swapped for it.
If you dont undertsand swaps then read about it. The fed has made no secret that they swap gold and sell what the get while holding the gold in knox for someone else. They also lease gold out to thier banker buddies who sell it. The fed still shows it as "gold on deposit" although all they have is a promise to return it. >>
How much is the Yen down since 1913?
How much is the Pound Sterling down since 1913?
How much is the Deutschmark, er Euro, down since 1913?
How much is the Yuan down since 1913?
How much is the Ruble down since 1913?
Bash currencies in general, not just the US dollar. A year ago January, all we heard was how taxi drivers, lunch carts and supermodels wanted Euros over dollar, and what happened? The dollar ripped 20% higher. I bet the Chinese are counting their blessing for not having too much Euro debt.
The US dollar will remain the worlds reserve currency for the rest of our lives. There is no other currency that will replace it, and certainly not one backed by Rubles.
The more talk I hear of the dollar's demise, the more I think the next 25 year (8.6 x 3) cycle is going to be an up cycle.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The US dollar will remain the worlds reserve currency for the rest of our lives. There is no other currency that will replace it, and certainly not one backed by Rubles.
The more talk I hear of the dollar's demise, the more I think the next 25 year (8.6 x 3) cycle is going to be an up cycle. >>
You seem pretty certain of yourself, but your statement defies history. Is your assertion based on a belief that the USD is "too big/important to fail?" If true, the USD would be the first fiat currency to ever pull off this feat. What did they say about the British Pound before it fell from prominence? The monetizing of debt is one of the events that has alwasy precluded the complete destruction of currencies (reference Zimbabwe, Argentina, and others). A comeback from where the US is now will be the greatest comeback ever accomplished. Our deficit spending is already massive relative to GDP, and there are no plans to reduce it - only plans that will see it grow. If there's a way out of this mess, I'm not seeing it.
is an error, the dollar has LOST 95% since 1913 and is worth about 3-5% of what it bought then.
Sorry Coyn, I forgot the word "less" after the 95% in my post....corrected. I've never looked at what the other world's currencies have lost since 1913 but that really doesn't concern me since I live in the USA and we have the world's reserve currency as well as the world's leading central bank, the FED (and GS-JPM attached at the hip). Our currency was supposedly backed by gold all along from 1913 to 1971 but in fact the ties were loosely broken during WW1 and then again during the greast depression....and pretty much all the way along. We had a gold standard in name only if just to placate the masses. Gold has never been a rigid currency backer, at least not during the last 96 years. If someone has the currency depreciation numbers for leading nations (UK, Canada, China, Russia, France, Swiss, Germany, India, Brazil, Australia, Japan,etc.) I'd like to see them. I'd be surprised if any of these other than maybe Russia has devalued their currency by 95%.
The dollar seems destined to go the path of all fiat currencies. Our 100-120 years in the lime light is up unless we make improvements soon. Imo the world will work around the USA if we won't get on board to link leading currencies to some sort of fixed basket of assets. While the dollar might remain intact just as it is for another 30 years, the other nations would have long found ways to work business around us using other forms of currencies/barter/trade/oil/gold/etc. Going a couple of TRILLION into debt each year is just not going to cut it. The US is ok with continuing this status quo, the rest of the world is not.
Double accounting of central bank gold has long been suggested and recommended by the IMF. This makes the gold trade even more opaque that it already is. Germany would not be asking for its gold back if the US or UK didn't have a lot of it in their possession. Germany's Bundesbank has been one of the US partner's of choice
in transferring gold for price supression. As long as the financial system was in good shape no reason to change anything. There is a good reason for them wanting their gold back in their own possession. The tide is continuing to flow.
roadrunner
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com
<< <i>For my friend Cohodk:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ >>
And here are a few more.
France debt clock
UK debt clock
German debt clock
Canada debt clock
Tried to show a link to the Japan debt clock but apparently the spelling of some Japanese words dont look so good in English. Suffice it to say, that the average Japanese citizen has 2x the debt burden of an American.
I have no problem bashing currencies, but lets not single out the US dollar.
PC--I wouldnt say sure of "myself", but I am sure of what I "see". To compare the USA to Zimbabwe is unfathomable, IMVHO. You sound like you expect the dollar to completely fail in the next 6 months.
The USA has had larger deficits to GDP in the past and we have survived. In fact we have flourished. We have just lost our way and I am sure we will find it again.
Dont read my "defense" of the dollar as bashing gold. I actually think over time the view of gold as an alternative currency may only increase.
But I do fear, that the only "hyperinflation" we are going to see is in our tax rates.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
R95
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't believe they want to TAKE the dollar down, I think they have accepted the fact that WE are taking the dollar down and they are just looking to transition accordingly.
The dollar is worth 95% of what it was in 1913
is an error, the dollar has LOST 95% since 1913 and is worth about 3-5% of what it bought then.
Ft Knox is not empty and few people claim it is. However, much of what was there 50 years ago is either gone or is being held for some other entity that purchased it or swapped for it.
If you dont undertsand swaps then read about it. The fed has made no secret that they swap gold and sell what the get while holding the gold in knox for someone else. They also lease gold out to thier banker buddies who sell it. The fed still shows it as "gold on deposit" although all they have is a promise to return it. >>
How much is the Yen down since 1913?
How much is the Pound Sterling down since 1913?
How much is the Deutschmark, er Euro, down since 1913?
How much is the Yuan down since 1913?
How much is the Ruble down since 1913?
Bash currencies in general, not just the US dollar. A year ago January, all we heard was how taxi drivers, lunch carts and supermodels wanted Euros over dollar, and what happened? The dollar ripped 20% higher. I bet the Chinese are counting their blessing for not having too much Euro debt.
The US dollar will remain the worlds reserve currency for the rest of our lives. There is no other currency that will replace it, and certainly not one backed by Rubles.
The more talk I hear of the dollar's demise, the more I think the next 25 year (8.6 x 3) cycle is going to be an up cycle. >>
How do you know this to be an absolute certainty? Do you believe that history repeats itself and if so study what has happened to fiat currency througout history?
Just take a look at the Roman empire and the United States for a comparison, both the most powerful nations on Earth with strong currencies backed by Gold, Silver and Copper. Both nations embarked on a path of military expansion while ringing up enormous debt and debasing their currencies.
Now you post here that the Dollar will be the worlds reserve currency for the rest of our lives, I suppose you would be proven correct if we all were to die in the next 24 hours but beyond that you're just blowing smoke and maybe it's you who should be wearing the tinfoil hat.
<< <i>The US dollar will remain the worlds reserve currency for the rest of our lives. There is no other currency that will replace it, and certainly not one backed by Rubles.
The more talk I hear of the dollar's demise, the more I think the next 25 year (8.6 x 3) cycle is going to be an up cycle. >>
Read this tonight, makes sense to me:
"If the US loses control of long rates, they will not be able to arrest asset price declines. If they print too much money, they will debase the dollar and cause stagflation."
There is enough money if the Fed can run the printing presses fast enough. That is the whole point. The bet is that people will continue to accept it in return for real goods and services, pretending that it has the same marginal value without regard to how much the Fed creates."
Article: US-bonds-sale-faces-market-resistance
"The dynamic is just getting overwhelming," said RBC Capital Markets.
The US Treasury is selling $40bn of two-year notes on Tuesday, $35bn of five-year bonds on Wednesday, and $25bn of seven-year debt on Thursday. While the US has not yet suffered the indignity of a failed auction – unlike Britain and Germany – traders are watching closely to see what share is being purchased by US government itself in pure "monetisation" of the deficit...
The US is not alone in facing a deficit crisis. Governments worldwide have to raise some $6 trillion in debt this year, with huge demands in Japan and Europe. Kyle Bass from the US fund Hayman Advisors said the markets were choking on debt.
<< <i>I'd like to add/ask something....has there ever been a world currency that has failed, hyper-inflated or replaced for any reason? I have rethought the dollar hyper-inflation scenario unless the dollar was eased out by a basket of currenciies and then ultimately allowed to self-destruct.
R95 >>
No, fiat currencies never fail. You can always trust the politicians and bankers.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Well, its been 9 hours and the dollar is up. I think saying the dollar will be ok in 24 hours is a pretty good bet.
I make $$$ money based on people's FEAR. You're stating that the dollar will collapse tomorrow may very well make me rich. Thank you.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So why arent you focusing on the potential for a collpase of the Pound or Euro? Europe has more debt and a smaller orange from which to squeeze juice. Seems much more likely to me that the pound or Euro is on deaths doorstep.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Obama officials gave Bilderberg briefings
"Its ultra-exclusive roster of globally influential figures has captured the interest of an international network of conspiracists, who for decades have viewed the Bilderberg conference as a devious corporate-globalist scheme."
<< <i>While the US has not yet suffered the indignity of a failed auction – unlike Britain and Germany
So why arent you focusing on the potential for a collpase of the Pound or Euro? Europe has more debt and a smaller orange from which to squeeze juice. Seems much more likely to me that the pound or Euro is on deaths doorstep. >>
I could care less about these currencies. It looks to me that they may be the first dominoes to fall. I fail to see how you think the US is not in the same boat. Too big to fail? Lol...
<< <i>
<< <i>While the US has not yet suffered the indignity of a failed auction – unlike Britain and Germany
So why arent you focusing on the potential for a collpase of the Pound or Euro? Europe has more debt and a smaller orange from which to squeeze juice. Seems much more likely to me that the pound or Euro is on deaths doorstep. >>
I could care less about these currencies. It looks to me that they may be the first dominoes to fall. I fail to see how you think the US is not in the same boat. Too big to fail? Lol... >>
Dont put words in my mouth.
I dont think you have thought out the consequences of the pound or Euro failing.
You have a vested interested in seeing the US dollar fail and, I believe, this clouds rational thought. The USA is in a boat, but not the same boat. Not even close.
Only time will prove one of us correct. I am HIGHLY confident we--and many generations after us-- will be long dead before the US dollar is completely worthless.
I could care less about these currencies
Very, very interesting comment.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
We're already at 4 generations since the beginning of the FED in 1913. And true enough the currency is still around and the best in the world, though worth 5 cents on the original 1913 dollar if you follow govt statistics. While not worthless a nickel is not saying much. Does that mean in another 4 generations we're looking at a 1/4 cent? Odds would seem to favor it. Who in particular has gained by this devaluation? Best hidden tax scheme ever invented and certainly entirely planned out by our second group of "founding fathers."
roadrunner
if your a big player do you really care who win's if you own a interest in it
and on the flip side do you really thing we as a country will get job's back with out a cheaper dollar
and without jobs do you think we as a country will pay off anything ever!!!
just my thoughts
<< <i>There will never be a failed treasury auction or a US govt default, of course unless the presses break down. >>
Well, you can't just "zimbabwe" your way out of avoiding a failed treasury auction or default. Yes, they can keep printing long after a loaf of bread is $100M USD, just like Zimbabwe is doing. But once you reach the point of Zimbabwe, what chance for success or escaping your situation do you really have without starting over?
<< <i>Dont put words in my mouth. >>
Well you have yet to really explain how you think the US will escape this situation we're in. Like I and others have said, no fiat currency has managed to survive very long, ever in world history. Do you think US gov't officials today are so much smarter than all of the governments of the past that they can avoid the demise of our currency? Do you think that the US can achieve success at saving their currency even though we're doing the exact same thing every other failed fiat government has done? Do you not realize that the US has two options right now... 1. Raise interest rates and save the USD (At the expense of economic recovery) or 2. Devalue the dollar and print like crazy? Can you see what path they've chosen, and why?
<< <i>I dont think you have thought out the consequences of the pound or Euro failing. >>
And perhaps you haven't either. You think the world will flock to the USD if/when these other currencies fail? You don't think the rest of the world won't "wise up" once they see a large dominent currency fail and the US treading quickly down the same path to ruin? The world is trying to get out of the USD as fast as they can, but they're trying to keep it under the radar. Once news gets out or once the drop starts to pick up, the trickle will become a stampede.
<< <i>You have a vested interested in seeing the US dollar fail and, I believe, this clouds rational thought. The USA is in a boat, but not the same boat. Not even close. >>
I also have a vested interes on not seeing it fail. I am preparing myself for the dollar's demise, but I would much rather see it not go down the tubes.
<< <i>Only time will prove one of us correct. I am HIGHLY confident we--and many generations after us-- will be long dead before the US dollar is completely worthless. >>
Define worthless. The Zimbabwe dollar is worthless. If you have 100M of them you can buy some milk or bread. As RR has pointed out, we are at 5% of the original value. Would you consider 0.25% to be worthless?
As far as I can recall, you have yet to justify or explain your high confidence in the USD. I am very interested to hear what the basis is for your confidence. Many of us have explained our reasoning for thinking the dollar will utlimately fail, so it would be nice to understand your viewpoint rather than having to guess at why you believe what you do. I think many of us (or at least I) could be persuaded if your ideas have any merit, or if you make some observations that I haven't.
<< <i>The dollar is worth 95% of what it was in 1913
is an error, the dollar has LOST 95% since 1913 and is worth about 3-5% of what it bought then.
Sorry Coyn, I forgot the word "less" after the 95% in my post....corrected. I've never looked at what the other world's currencies have lost since 1913 but that really doesn't concern me since I live in the USA and we have the world's reserve currency as well as the world's leading central bank, the FED (and GS-JPM attached at the hip). Our currency was supposedly backed by gold all along from 1913 to 1971 but in fact the ties were loosely broken during WW1 and then again during the greast depression....and pretty much all the way along. We had a gold standard in name only if just to placate the masses. Gold has never been a rigid currency backer, at least not during the last 96 years. If someone has the currency depreciation numbers for leading nations (UK, Canada, China, Russia, France, Swiss, Germany, India, Brazil, Australia, Japan,etc.) I'd like to see them. I'd be surprised if any of these other than maybe Russia has devalued their currency by 95%.
The dollar seems destined to go the path of all fiat currencies. Our 100-120 years in the lime light is up unless we make improvements soon. Imo the world will work around the USA if we won't get on board to link leading currencies to some sort of fixed basket of assets. While the dollar might remain intact just as it is for another 30 years, the other nations would have long found ways to work business around us using other forms of currencies/barter/trade/oil/gold/etc. Going a couple of TRILLION into debt each year is just not going to cut it. The US is ok with continuing this status quo, the rest of the world is not.
Double accounting of central bank gold has long been suggested and recommended by the IMF. This makes the gold trade even more opaque that it already is. Germany would not be asking for its gold back if the US or UK didn't have a lot of it in their possession. Germany's Bundesbank has been one of the US partner's of choice
in transferring gold for price supression. As long as the financial system was in good shape no reason to change anything. There is a good reason for them wanting their gold back in their own possession. The tide is continuing to flow.
roadrunner >>
The German Mark had to be essentially recreated twice since 1914; the first time it went from 4.2 marks to the USD to 4.2 trillion marks to the USD. It was eventually restored with US help in 1924. It crashed again at the end of WWII.
The Japanese Yen went from about par to the USD in 1914 to about 95 Yen to the USD this year.
The French Franc went from about about par to the USD in 1914 to about 700 to the USD before being replaced with the EURO (It was 7 to the USD but there was a currency revaluation in 1960 of 100 old francs to 1 new franc)
The United Kingdom held up better than most of the countries mentioned - the GBP was worth a bit over 4 USD in 1914 I believe, and is worth about 1.5 USD today.
Brazil has had several currency revaluations since the 1930s, several on the scale of thousands of old reis/reals/cruzeiros/etc to new ones.
Not to say the US government and fed aren't playing a very high risk and dangerous game.
Bjorn
<< <i>You have a vested interested in seeing the US dollar fail >>
Cohodk
Ouch! Harsh words.
Perhaps we "metalheads" are merely look upon our holdings as an insurance against such an occurance. However, I will state that I have absolutely no confidence in our leadership, especially with the likes of Turbo Tax Tim and Helicopter Ben at the controls. The inevitability of a poor outcome for the dollar is a virtual forgone conclusion, so called "reserve currency" status not withstanding. It's not a matter of if but when.
Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com
With the revelations that many of the congresspersons don't pay all their taxes unless they are up for special appointment and the second chapter of revelations where most "successful business people" pay little or no taxes ala the Oracle's statement to congress last year that his secretary pays more taxes than anyone in the room, it's little wonder that the working class is not amused by the book of revelations. A news article yesterday talked about how one state that enacted an enhanced taxation of their wealthy as a way to balance their budgets and then found out quickly that this adversarial situation is coming to the forefront; 1/3 of the wealthy packed their bags immediately and left the state so the situation now for that state is that not only do they not have the enhanced revenue from the enhanced taxation of the wealthy including sales tax revenues and property taxes, they have less than they had before with the normal taxation because the wealthy left.
I seriously doubt that there will be massive protests over the little nicks here and there that the govts are sliding into their constituents tax burdens but it would seem very plausible that passive resistance will skyrocket; people are gonna flee high tax states, boomers are gonna stop working at 62 and take the cake, people are gonna spend more time bartering and ebay selling to avoid on the books income, a lot more cash transactions instead of paper trails, people are gonna do just like the wealthy do and dodge every bit of income reporting or declaring of gains that they can and where they can't escape, they will find or get appropriate deductions to cover the gains even if it means buying some farmland to get a govt. agricultural subsidy and ag. exemptions while they lease it for pasture and passive farming like a tree farm, anything to get out from under the taxation. We haven't even started talking about blackmarket or under the radar untaxed sale of cigs, gasoline, liquor, all that stuff, that will come later. So, just like the eligible are retiring early to get the social security money, others are gonna pay less to the govts. where they can. Kind of a backfire because because of their effort for enhanced revenue through taxation, the govt will be dealing with diminished returns and the resulting lack o' buks because of avoidance. The only fallacy of that concept of raising taxes for enhanced govt is that it assumes people will cooperate.
As California goes, so goes the nation...There is a tax protest there, Arrrrrnold can't get a tax bill passed and he can't get a budget to work because he can't raise taxes to pay for it. The Cali's have put tax protection measures in every part of their govt. so they can't have tax increases unless the voters approve them but it is gonna take more money to make it work so they can have teachers and policemen and santiation workers and the like but the people won't let them raise taxes. So, they are at an impasse, can't raise taxes and can't pay for what they need...Would you like do downsize that burger, mister...in fact, why don't you just make it yourself, yeah, go ahead Mister, put your own house fire out...use the garden hose, duh.
This will be an interesting scenario, how the govt's will attempt to grow their employee bases and expand their services to their constituents and expand their power bases in the full light of lesser revenues. One thing for darned sure is that when you reach for a guys wallet, you are going to get resistance, especially when it's between the govt reaching and the guy trying to send his kid to summer camp or band practice. The unfortunate fall out of all of this is that the charitable contributions, benefactors to social needs, the acts of donation for other than 501 c-3 organizations are going to fall off of the cliff and the 501's are gonna take a pretty big hit too. Only the very wealthy will be able to give "gifts" and the current plans to limit the value of those gifts for income tax write-off purposes will surely diminish the contributions to organizations that aid those in need. Regular folk are just gonna have to find a better way to dodge taxation, like the congress people and the wealthy do. The class wars will soon be much more conspicuous.
JMHO
Please return to your regularly scheduled programming. oops
China Warns Fed over Printing Money
Richard Fisher, president of the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank, said: "Senior officials of the Chinese government grilled me about whether or not we are going to monetise the actions of our legislature."
"I must have been asked about that a hundred times in China. I was asked at every single meeting about our purchases of Treasuries. That seemed to be the principal preoccupation of those that were invested with their surpluses mostly in the United States," he told the Wall Street Journal.
The Chinese clearly are not going to put up with this much longer...
And is your confidence in the future of the USD based on percieved competence of our officials?
Hank Paulson Admits He Never Really Understood How Mortgage-Backed Securities Worked
<< <i> The Chinese clearly are not going to put up with this much longer... >>
Perhaps not but the Chinese printing presses are running too as they are financing their own national economic bailout/recovery plan. One problem they face is that if they convert too many of their dollars to yuan, they will drive up the value of their currency further, making their exports more costly and further hindering their recovery plans.
I suppose if the Chinese grow weary of the dollar they can always swap their dollars for rubles--they will have no problem finding willing traders in Russia.
CG
Look, if people dont have confidence in the US dollar, then they cannot have confidence in ANY fiat currency. So if no confidence in fiat, then what will people do? Almost everyone alive today only knows fiat, and thats the way, IMHO, it will continue to be.
As for the dollar, remember last year when Australia and New Zealand and Poland and India and Europe--for that matter, had strong currencies? They also had higher interest rates than the USA. People are greedy and they wanted the higher yield. They couldnt pile into Iceland fast enough dispite the inherant risks associated with a country of only 300,000 citizens. Now lets suppose that all this talk of the US blowing up is a bit exaggerated. Granted there is concern, but the USA cannot fail without the world failing. So, as a result, investors say, "Yeah, we'll buy your debt, but you have to pay a higher interest rate." We say ok, no problem. Money flocks to the USA to get a higher yield and extreme safety and Govts around the world prop up the dollar. In this scenerio, the dollar could very well appreciate as investors can get more yield on their investment with less risk than investing in Europe or Japan or anywhere else.
Now, of course this would have a negative impact on our economy as consumers would have to pay higher interest rates and would take less risk. It might just also increase savings as domestic savers are enticed by higher yields. We had a situation in this country where we all said, "Why should I put money in the bank and get paid 0 interest, when I can buy a flat screen or an Ipod." The low interest rates encouraged spending and discouraged saving. We NEED more saving and less debt, but the transitition will not be without pain. In the late 70's, early 80's we had 10% savings rates. Why, because we got 15% in a passbook savings account. Ok so we take our lumps and settle for 1-2% growth over the next decade. In the 1930's we averaged 1.3% growth.
Then as the dollar strengthens, foreign companies who sell their products in America reap the benefits when they turn those dollars back into their home currency. The stronger dollar is disinflationary which keeps prices in check for Americans. Our foreign suppliers do not have to raise the prices they charge us as they get increased profit from currency conversion. So eventually the whole world gains and we get out of this mess in 20 years. In the end, more of the world would be in relative parity, as opposed to the gross disparity we have today.
And no, I do not have confidence in our politicians and they could very well screw this up. I do however have "hope" in my fellow American's that we will not allow them to screw it up.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
roadrunner
But one of your statements caught my attention: "the USA cannot fail without the world failing."
I'm not sure that this is true. There are some countries that would still be OK without us. Obviously they are better of with us and it will hurt them to not have us, but I think most countries will be able to adapt to such a scenario, the most important of which is China who is positioned fairly well and more importantly, is posturing and preparing to ween itself from our economy, as many countries in the world are and have been doing.
The US has been mooching off of the rest of the world for decades. The US and other countries have been over-spending our incomes and we've been getting other countries to pay for it, but they are almost done (And they will be more so as the dollar declines further). Just as the US cannot afford to pay for the lifestyle we're now used to, it doesn't make sense for other countries to keep sending us goods in return for devaluing and worthless debt that may never be paid and is decaying. How long do you think their charity will last, especially after other large governments default? They can want to trade with the US all they want, but in the end, the US will have to pay them in something other than FRNs because it won't make good business sense to do otherwise.
China has already stopped buying long term US bonds. Now any buying they are doing is short term. They are unwinding their large long term debt holdings. How long until the rest of the world follows suit? Yes, they stand to lose a lot of money, but it's like holding a losing stock. You bought a huge position at $100, it's now at $50, but it's plain to see that it's headed to $10 or less. You can either hold it and see what happens or dump it and salvage as much as you can. When the company starts issuing shares and diluting ownership (or in the case of the US, buying its own debt), the writing is on the wall.
I think the scenerio I describe is much more likely to happen than hyperinflation.
I have not seen any evidence that China has stopped buying long term bonds. China does not have the excess $$$ with which to buy US bonds which is why their purchases have slowed.
I think it may have been incredibly brilliant for the USA to issue debt to the rest of the world at extremely low interest rates. Brilliant.
I am simply trying to offer a scenerio in which the US dollar does not decline and in fact appreciates. I believe it is in the worlds best interest to see this scenerio play out. The worlds G's can change law and policy to make this happen.
While there is chance for the dollar to decline, I do not think it is "most" likely.
it doesn't make sense for other countries to keep sending us goods in return for devaluing and worthless debt that may never be paid and is decaying
Then they can stop sending us goods and have their own economies collapse. The world will work with its best customer, no matter what our finances may be.
The USA can make many policy changes to help its debt obligations. They've done so before, and will again.
I also dont believe China is well positioned. If they stop producing for the USA they will have a population greater than the entire pop of the USA out of work. No matter how strong their military, they could not stop the civil unrest that would erupt. There are entire cities built around factories that do nothing but make goods for the USA and Europe. Imagine an entire city of 3 miilion--about the size of LA or Chicago---without work. They are also facing a major demographic problem with 20 years due to the 1 child policy.
China is also the 3rd largest IMPORTER of goods, right behind the USA and Germany. China’s imports from America rose 9.5% to $71.5 billion, a 105.7% increase from the 2004 amount but down from the 18% rise in 2007. Seems they are a bit dependant on the USA as well.
Read more: http://import-export.suite101.com/article.cfm/chinas_imports_exports_slow_in_2008#ixzz0GueQLLJN&B
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
China et al were warned that they needed to spend to keep the world economy moving. They thought they were being smart by manipulating the system and accumulating dollars. Now they have "the old maid" and we are going to "stick it too them' In the mean time we fight the recession, reduce bankruptcies, inflate the stock and real estate markets, save the pension funds, pay off our wall street friends and have trillions for social programs.
I don’t see “hyperinflation”. 10-30% annual inflation is not “hyper.” The only down side is for the savers and the retirees, But every great plan has some casualties, I just don’t plan to be one of them.
<< <i>I have not seen any evidence that China has stopped buying long term bonds. China does not have the excess $$$ with which to buy US bonds which is why their purchases have slowed. >>
I'll see if I can find a source.
<< <i>I think it may have been incredibly brilliant for the USA to issue debt to the rest of the world at extremely low interest rates. Brilliant. >>
Any time you can get others to borrow huge sums like that when you have such a terrible balance sheet it is an achievement.
<< <i>I am simply trying to offer a scenerio in which the US dollar does not decline and in fact appreciates. I believe it is in the worlds best interest to see this scenerio play out. The worlds G's can change law and policy to make this happen. >>
While it is in the world's best interest, you cannot force markets. It has been tried and it always fails. You cannot legislate faith in fiat based currency.
<< <i>While there is chance for the dollar to decline, I do not think it is "most" likely. >>
I think the chance increases with every week that goes by as the news gets worse and worse.
<< <i>it doesn't make sense for other countries to keep sending us goods in return for devaluing and worthless debt that may never be paid and is decaying
Then they can stop sending us goods and have their own economies collapse. The world will work with its best customer, no matter what our finances may be. >>
Your logic has failed here. Why would you sell products to someone you know will not be able to pay you? You are better off going out of business and shutting off production rather than giving it away. Who would be that stupid?
<< <i>The USA can make many policy changes to help its debt obligations. They've done so before, and will again. >>
Not sure what you're talking about. Examples, please.
<< <i>I also dont believe China is well positioned. If they stop producing for the USA they will have a population greater than the entire pop of the USA out of work. No matter how strong their military, they could not stop the civil unrest that would erupt. There are entire cities built around factories that do nothing but make goods for the USA and Europe. Imagine an entire city of 3 miilion--about the size of LA or Chicago---without work. They are also facing a major demographic problem with 20 years due to the 1 child policy.
China is also the 3rd largest IMPORTER of goods, right behind the USA and Germany. China’s imports from America rose 9.5% to $71.5 billion, a 105.7% increase from the 2004 amount but down from the 18% rise in 2007. Seems they are a bit dependant on the USA as well. >>
From what I understand, the Chinese imports of American goods consists mainly of raw materials which are then processed and sent back to the US. This is quite different from importing for consumption. In the list in your article, the only items of concern are Soybeans and aircraft. When I was in China last year, I did not see or notice anything really in the way of American goods except some luxury brands from around the world in the high-end shopping centers. China may not be "well" positioned but they are better positioned than almost everyone else. They have money laying around (in the bank) and valuable assets all around the world. Unemplyment in China could become an issue, but it's quite a leap to say it would cause civil unrest. The Chinese poeple are very aware of the world economy and would understand that civil unrest is not going to create jobs, not is the government intentionally putting them out of work. China can take care of itself. The have the resources and manpower to do so.
ProofCollection - that sounds like Alex Jones inside info.
Reference: Coin Links