Hey '72 FAB FIVE

thegemmintman

What do you think of this?...High Series Unopened Wax Box

I thought it would make a good unopened pack discussion.

mcastaldi

Z. . .er, GMM. . .
Most of the 6th Series unopened boxes I've seen on eBay have closed in the $2500-$2700 range so it's in the ballpark anyway.

But. . .like I've said before, it depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to leave it unopened, then by all means go for it. But if you intend to break it open and submit it, it's just not worth it. Here's why-
* The description says that two Carews and a Garvey are clearly visible on the bottom of packs. So I think it's safe to assume these three cards will not be submittable due to wax staining.
* 24 ten-card packs equals 240 cards in the box. At $2750, that works out to be $11.45 per card (on the whole).
* We'll be generous and assume that 30% of the box is of submittable quality for 8s. That means 72 submittable cards. Assuming the non-submittable cards are worthless (since the goal is submittable cards), the 72 submittable cards work out to $38.19 each.
* Regardless of how many submittable cards are in a box, look at the market for hi# PSA8s. . .at $30 each, you'd need to get 92 PSA8s to equal the $2750 investment. If you're looking for 9s, assume a value of $80 each - which means you'd have to pull 34 PSA9s to equal $2750. Either way, I have a hard time believing you'd pull enough submittable cards to make it worth while.

As 72s increase in value, these factors may change. But right now, if you open this box you're probably going to get hurt.

Mike

zardoz51

...especially in light of the fact that this box was in the last auction in believe, purchased by one of our fellow board members, and returned as he stated that there was water staining on the packs.

69topps8

Don't buy it! Zardoz is correct. I won this wax box in the last auction and there are definite signs of water damage on the box and packs. Many of the packs have brown stains on them and the box has warpage and stains on it. Maybe you'll get lucky and the cards are undamaged but I'd never take a $2500 risk on opening those packs. And if you have plans to break the box and sell the packs individually, you'd have to disclose the damage to the packs which would drop the value to probably $50 per pack or less.

It's unfortunate that Superior continues to misrepresent the condition of this item. I highlighted my concerns when I returned the item and I don't see how anyone would consider the condition of the packs as NM/MT.

zardoz51

It's good to see that my memory is still funtional.....

thegemmintman

Mike, that's an excellent analysis. I only have a small idea what the market is for '72 Topps cards (learned from you guys) and thought it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

69topps8, I'm glad you told everyone about the box. At least the board members will stay the heck away. You're right, Superior should not have accepted the box for consignment in the first place or at the very least they should disclose the problems.

Zardoz, recent findings by the Kellogg's Institute are showing significant evidence that prolonged exposure to the 1970 Kellogg's 3-D effect is extremely beneficial to overall brain function.

zardoz51

3-D without the red/green glasses!!!!!!!....wow, if only the others knew what they were missing!

mcastaldi

GMM> Actually, a lot of boxes are like that. If you stop and ask "How many 8s (or 9s) would I have to pull for the box to be worth it?" you'd be amazed at how many unopened boxes are simply better left unopened.

Mike

carkim

I would buy that box in a heart beat...I think it is worth the risk for lets say $200.00

Carlos

thegemmintman

Mike, I realized that about older vintage material (usually not worth it to open it), but I had no idea that unopened '72 stuff commands such premiums. How "FAB-ulous".

mcastaldi

GMM> Even 75s are cost prohibitive. If I had to guess, it doesn't start to be worth it until you look at 78 or 79 vending. Even the 78 and 79 wax boxes are too expensive. A rack box may be OK, but I haven't seen many of those.

Mike

Late1970sTopps

Mike: Your analysis of the 1978 and 1979 unopened material is correct....that is unless you are lucky enough to pull an average of three PSA 10's per box. Of course a 1979 PSA 10 Seaver doesn't hurt any. Throw in a 1978 PSA 9 Eddie Murray Rookie Card and it makes for "decent" deal. Can you tell I'm still smiling?

Frank
(fsmith@bankofastoria.com)

FB

John,

Thanks for the heads up on the 72 High Series Wax box. A number of us have gone round and round on whether unopened wax would be a decent deal. And the consensus is - very rarely...

I was at the Fort Washington show on Friday night. For $2500 I could have had 150 high grade (8 or 9 NQ) 72 high number commons as well as 5 or 6 of each of the stars in equally nice condition. Plus - the centering would be better!!!

I've purchased three 72 wax packs in the last 2 years. They've run me over $100 apiece and each time I've opened one - I've reminded myself to never do it again.

69topps8

Frank,

If you find a nice enough wax box, it may be worth the cost. The 3rd series wax box I purchased a few years ago was Mint and the handfull of packs I opened yielded most of the 3rd series 9's in my set. I'm sure the people who bought the other 15 to 20 packs from the box also did quite well. '72 seemed to be an ok year for Topps as far as quality control. I sold a few high # '72 football wax boxes to a customer of mine and he got a ton of 9's. But this particular high # wax box Superior is auctioning isn't worth a risk due to the poor condition.

mcastaldi

John> Perhaps you can correct me here, but in most packs wouldn't you get at least 1 if not two unsubmittable cards immediately - one card because of wax staining (bottom card) and another card because of a gum imprint?

If you have 10 cards per pack and are discarding two off the top, that's 20% of the cards right there.

Mike

69topps8

Mike,

Most of the packs from my box had the bottom card (near where you open the pack) face up, so you can wipe the wax off the surface. As for the card stuck to the gum, a few were face up and a few were face down. The gum did damage a few of those cards but not all. The box was stored exceptionally well and therefore the gum didn't melt.

I did save one pack which has a Roberto Clemente In-Action showing. That card is also face up. Very cool pack!

acowa

I gotta say...this board is GOOD!!! And I mean real GOOD! Where else are you gonna find out the skinny about this unopened box?

Thanks for the insight 69topps. While I am not a member of the 1972 holier than thou clique or the communist party. I can appreciate great info.

Regards,


Alan

gaspipe26

Most of you out there know me. Most of you have numerous cards in your sets that came from me. You know my reputation. The 1972 Box in question is MINE. There is nothing wrong with the packs. There is NO water damage. There a little musty and dusty as they were in a larger box for 30 years but there fine. I could have put the packs in a real nice box and then there would be no questioning them but I felt I should sell them in the original box they came in no matter what the box looks like. As for the gentlemen who said he bought them and returned them. Maybe he is the one or isnt I dont know nor care. If Superior didnt think the box was good they wouldnt auction it. The buyer could of also had buyers remorse, who knows. Would I open the packs? Maybe if I thought the centering was good. I'll tell you this I did open a 5th series box and FB some of the cards are in your set. Andy M yours too. Theres no telling about the centering. That goes for vending boxes too. Its a crap shoot. The value of this box is in its unopened state. But if your willing to risk it go for it. If anyone has anymore questions please feel free to email me at rjc01266@aol.com

RayBShotz

To all:

Gaspipe26 is about as upstanding a guy as you will find in this hobby of ours. His word is golden with me. Take what he says about this box to the bank.

To Gaspipe26:

Welcome to the Message Boards and thank you for your comradery and the quality cards you have supplied me with in the past.

Respectfully,

RayB69Topps

waitilltheytrytosell

Mike - The only thing left out of your calculations above was that little matter of the grading fee. You've got to add 6 or 7 bucks a pop plus shipping for everything you send in. That makes it even tougher. You do however have a better shot at that elusive 10 with fresh stuff like this.

mcastaldi

Waittil> I preferred to understate the problem and tried to be "optimistically fair". But yeah. . .if you have to add grading fees to those raw cards and then compare them to pricing for already-graded stuff, it's that much tougher.

And think about this. . .my Giants RC was the 28th PSA10 and that was about 3 weeks ago. . .now there are 32 PSA 10s. So someone's come away with those four.

Mike

NickM

Which cards got the 4 most recent 10s?

Nick

69topps8

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the board. I know you, have purchased cards from you and consider you as a trustworthy seller. However, I think people on these boards would also vouch for my integrity. I was indeed the one who bought the box. I did not have buyer's remorse and don't mind paying top dollar for high quality scarce merchendise. The reason I returned the item is not because of the condition of the box. The box value is very small in relation to the overall value of the 24 unopened packs. I returned it because there were brown stains on some of the packs. The corners of the packs are NM/MT but I think you have to factor in the surface qualities as well. Comparing them to the few packs of mint 3rd series I retained from my last wax box shows a noticable difference in color.

The cards may be perfectly fine but I was not willing to take a chance. If I decided to open the packs and the cards were water damaged, I'd turn a $125 pack into $10 worth of low grade commons. If I decided to pack the box out on eBay, people would not be happy having those discolorations on their packs since most people want very clean packs to put away in their collections. My main beef is that Superior did not indicate that some of the packs were discolored nor did they mention that one of the Carew packs is split on the side. In the end, I was out about $40 shipping and insurance and have nothing to show for it. I had nothing to gain by returning it.

I wish you the best of luck selling the box but I felt an obligation to my fellow board members to share my opinion since I had inspected the item in person. Again, this is only my opinion and others are free to make their own judgements.

gaspipe26

gaspipe26

To 69topps8,
I'm somewhat at a disadvantage as you know who I am but I dont know who you are. Your first quote was "definite signs of water damage" now its some of the packs have brown stains . Thats a big difference. The top packs had a dust film on them but all the packs were dusted off and then replaced in the box. Did some retain a brown color? I guess a few might have, they were stored for 30 years or so. The packs are genuine und undamaged. If you didnt want to take a chance thats fine. You assumed something your not 100% sure about and stated it to others. Do you have an opinion or a right to an opinion? Yes. State it as an opinion not a "dont buy it its water damaged" fact. Do you really think Superior would damage there reputation on 1 sale or any sale? I think not. The facts here are, 69topps8 feels that some of the packs are stained and that there might be a problem that he is uncomfortable with taking a chance on. Gaspipe26 states that the box is beatup and that the packs where dusty and are undamaged. The slit in the Carew pack if there was not when the box was submitted to Superior so I cant tell you if that is true or not. I'm sure people have handled the pack including 69topps8 Thanks you listening.

Bob