GOETZ: More Jugendstil Paintings/Drawings

cacheman

sumnom

These are great!

Lynch

These are lovely. I assume they are jewelry designs.

Were any of them actually carried through to production?

theboz11

Awesome pick up. Museum work

trozau

Mucho Excellente!

cacheman

"These are lovely. I assume they are jewelry designs.

Were any of them actually carried through to production?"

Yes, jewelry, but also combs, stick pins, buttons, cane and umbrella handles, belt buckles, brooches, rings and bracelets, etc., etc..

When Goetz first arrived in Paris in 1899 he made and sold designs to designers to make a living. I'm positive that many of these were made but now the search is on to locate some/any examples now that I know what I'm looking for. The pieces will be marked by the jeweler so once I see who was buying his designs then I can zero in on their work. Supposedly the pieces were high end and made of gold for the most part. Any of the 'color' that you see would be enameling. I have a few pieces that he made as sales examples and anyone owning a Kienast Volume II can see a lot of the stuff on page 4.

I think that you'd be amazed to hear that with the exception of the last image, these drawings are only 3-5" in size. Much of the work is in a 1:1 format and I don't know how he could even do the work in such small detail. It was a surprise each time I scanned one as I couldn't make out the subject matter until I could 'blow up' the images to this size.

I'll post some more as I work on cataloging...there are about 395 more of them.

Iosephus

Neat items, and very intricate for their size. It must be great fun having so many drawings to curate! I hope you'll be able to locate some of the finished pieces as you continue your search and will be able to show us them with their corresponding drawings.

IloiloKano

The black pearl ring is exceptionally interesting, but I can't quite figure out the scene. Is it a mermaid dragging a sailor down to his doom? Using ocean waves to fasten the pearl to the ring is another example of the man's genious!

Lynch

<< <i>"These are lovely. I assume they are jewelry designs.

Were any of them actually carried through to production?"

Yes, jewelry, but also combs, stick pins, buttons, cane and umbrella handles, belt buckles, brooches, rings and bracelets, etc., etc..

When Goetz first arrived in Paris in 1899 he made and sold designs to designers to make a living. I'm positive that many of these were made but now the search is on to locate some/any examples now that I know what I'm looking for. The pieces will be marked by the jeweler so once I see who was buying his designs then I can zero in on their work. Supposedly the pieces were high end and made of gold for the most part. Any of the 'color' that you see would be enameling. I have a few pieces that he made as sales examples and anyone owning a Kienast Volume II can see a lot of the stuff on page 4.

I think that you'd be amazed to hear that with the exception of the last image, these drawings are only 3-5" in size. Much of the work is in a 1:1 format and I don't know how he could even do the work in such small detail. It was a surprise each time I scanned one as I couldn't make out the subject matter until I could 'blow up' the images to this size.

I'll post some more as I work on cataloging...there are about 395 more of them. >>



Thank you for your reply.

It is always pleasure to speak with advanced and knowledgeable collectors, especially those who are willing to share the knowledge they have acquired over the years.

Weiss

cacheman, are you confident enough in Goetz' style to know it when you see it--especially regarding these early non numis pieces? I'm sure you will want documented pieces. But wouldn't the artwork that eventually made it to jewelry have been purchased by the firms who made the pieces?

Seems like you might be playing Goetz/Not Goetz...


Not Goetz:


Not Goetz:


Goetz?

cacheman

Hi Weiss, Could it be that these were all unsold designs? Yes. Could it be that these were initial concept pieces shown to prospective buyers and he provided a larger example if something was ordered? Possibly. At this point in time I can't really say. One would also need to address the probability that the buyer would take artistic license with the purchased design. Not necessarily change the entire design, but like your examples, perhaps change the facial expression to where it doesn't even appear to be the same woman. I think that in order to search for potential pieces the entire design of each piece will need to be taken into account. You are correct though, it would be far easier to find something made from his own hand rather than his concepts done in someone else's hand.

I'm sure you will want documented pieces.

With the exception of the pieces he made himself, there aren't any documented Goetz designed pieces because no one has ever researched this subject before. I'm the one trying to document pieces and I probably have a better chance with these drawings than without.

It'll be detective work but that's why I collect

coinkat

wow... very cool

oldshep

Scott - Outstanding designs in miniture, I will be interested in following your findings.
what fun that must be.

Shep

Weiss

<< <i>

With the exception of the pieces he made himself, there aren't any documented Goetz designed pieces because no one has ever researched this subject before. I'm the one trying to document pieces and I probably have a better chance with these drawings than without. >>



Yeah, that's what I mean. I imagine you're looking for physical pieces that match your newly acquired artwork (documentation). I just wonder if by the virtue of the fact that you own those pieces, does it mean they went unsold and therefore unproduced? Or, as you say, is it possible that variations were purchased, and then altered. It would be very cool to come across a piece that matches your artwork exactly. But I wonder how likely that is, or if you'll have to apply your knowledge of his work to attribute pieces rather than match exactly.

cacheman

I've attributed a number of unknown medals that he made but this was because he muled and tweaked the image from another of his medals. For instance, I found one medal, Ludwig of Bavaria, that uses the same bust that can be found on no less than four other medals. Although it is the same face, it loses some definition during the reduction process and I figure that is why no one had identified it as a Goetz before. He was not the "author" of this medal so his name doesn't show up on the medal and it is attributed to the private mint that produced it.

To make matters worse, most of the artists were using the same photograph to design their new medals. Some easily are not Goetz but then you find someone like Alois Börsch who's Ludwig pieces look almost identical to Goetz's. It just takes time to identify the differences.

One other thing, along with these jewlery designs came about 75 medal designs too. I have already identified a stamp design that was not attributed to Goetz before. It appears he had his hands in everything.

coinpictures

<< <i>I have already identified a stamp design that was not attributed to Goetz before. >>



Do tell...

Stork

This has been a fascinating journey to watch! Thanks for your continued postings .

Cathy

ps...can you guess which design I like the best