Who would be most surprising baseball player to be found to be doing PED's?
larryallen73
Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
On Mike and Mike this morning they asked the question in this message title. The first name that came to my mind was Pujols. Maybe I have been brainwashed by the Pujols love-gang on these boards but Mike and Mike did not mention Pujols while I was listening. They mentioned Derek Jeter, Randy Johnson and a couple others I am spacing on now. Who do you think, amongst active baseball players, would be most surprising to find out they were doing PED's? Or maybe nobody would be a surprise at this point!?
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<< <i>David Eckstein >>
+1 for Eckstein.
Johnnie LeMaster
With Johnnie's physic, if he played baseball in this era, it would be most surprising!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>
<< <i>David Eckstein >>
+1 for Eckstein. >>
This was going to be my answer as soon as I saw the question.
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<< <i>I've also grown weary of the hypocrisy in the sports media for crushing guys suspected of or been busted for using steroids in MLB, but totally ignoring the positive tests in the NFL. >>
That's what irks me too. Shawn Merriman tests positive during the middle of the season, gets suspended for 4 games and no one says another word about it. He even made the Pro Bowl the same year and is even mentioned now as a future hall of famer. McGwire and Sosa never tested positive but have zero chance of making the hall of fame even though they would be locks without the steroid issue.
Additionally, the problem is more systemic than just at the highest levels. HS kids are using to get noticed by a scout -- College for a free ride to school (or they were not drafted high enough and are using Colleges to get a better draft status) or a pro-scout to get a bigger signing bonus. None of those guys are pissed that others are using. They just get upset and put on a show for the media when someone gets caught. It's all BS and spin.
Bosox1976
At this point why would anybody be surprised any time a name comes out? For every guy that is caught, there are probably 10 that are using and slip through.
The surprising thing to me is that people stake their emotional existence by proclaiming guys like Albert Pujols, or Ryan Howard are absolutely clean. People need heroes, but I didn't think it was that bad to make sure their guy is not mentioned.
Pujols is actually a prime suspect, and just because Ryan Howard is big...matters none, it is just a homer defense to protect a hero.
Little guys take them too.
Like the guys above said, people like Howard or Pujols could have easily started taking them in high school or just after. Frank Thomas too. They are part of the culture of liars.
Eddie Gaedel
<< <i>My son is 10. I told him he has to wait until he is at least 13 to get on the cycle. >>
I think your just hurting his future by holding out to 13. At that point the Babe Ruth coach will have a pretty good idea of who is going to be on his team at 15. If you don't star as a 1st year Babe Ruth player how is the Legion/High school coach going to notice him?
Be safe. Talk to the most honest person with experience. Jose Canseco. Get him on a age appropriate level of HGH by at least 11. It's your job to give your kid the most opportunities possible.
I'm not a Derek Jeter fan but I've always respected what I've been shown and told about his work ethic. And Greg Maddux was just so good for so long and seemed to play the game as much with his head as with any of his physical skills that I'd be really disappointed if he broke the rules too.
<< <i>Speeddriver, Halosfan....good points.
At this point why would anybody be surprised any time a name comes out? For every guy that is caught, there are probably 10 that are using and slip through.
The surprising thing to me is that people stake their emotional existence by proclaiming guys like Albert Pujols, or Ryan Howard are absolutely clean. People need heroes, but I didn't think it was that bad to make sure their guy is not mentioned.
Pujols is actually a prime suspect, and just because Ryan Howard is big...matters none, it is just a homer defense to protect a hero.
Little guys take them too.
Like the guys above said, people like Howard or Pujols could have easily started taking them in high school or just after. Frank Thomas too. They are part of the culture of liars. >>
Well spoken .
<< <i>The only suprising thing to me would be finding out any player in todays game is 100% clean >>
I agree...I think it's safe to say that any can be guilty and I love reading people saying that they know 100% that certain players are clean. That's living a lie and letting yourself for a letdown. Sorry, but MLB and the Players Association left that window open with their poor testing policies and procedures in the past.
Unfortunately, I also think its also a matter of time before Papi's use comes to light.
You know what, there ARE genuine people who live their life by principles, morals, and faith in God. It's cool in the mainstream of society to knock people of faith these days, but I will say it again, Albert Pujols IS/HAS BEEN clean, and I will enjoy every at bat of his career, because we are seeing one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game. I guarantee you that he will never be found to have been a PED user, because that's not Albert Pujols. He is a good man, not perfect, who serves God, loves his family, and cares about the kids/fans who look up to him. As Albert has said, he IS a clean player, and he appreciates what God has done for him too much to ever do anything that silly, because it could all be taken away from him in the blink of an eye. Albert is living for God, and you can see what God is doing in Albert Pujols' life, by blessing him with a great family and career.
Imagine if you came home and your wife had receive calls from numerous people that you were sleeping around on her, when you truly was not? Imagine if your wife starts to doubt you or actually buy into the lies? How can you restore your good name, or trust from your wife? How can you get back what was stolen from you? How would you feel if that caused problems/torment in your life, when you truly were innocent? Think about it, people. If a player is caught, then I have no problem with someone saying their piece about that player, but until then, it's absolutely pointless/classless to toss out cheap speculation.
Pujols
Learn about who Pujols is
<< <i>Ryan Howard is definitely not on steroids. >>
I am sure of it - I have a Topps "certified clean" urine sample card of Ryan Howard.
<< <i>There ARE some good guys still playing, and I am here to tell you Albert Pujols is one of them. All the people that enjoy bashing him, or the fans that stand up for him, just want him to be guilty of something so they can tear him down. Sadly, that's what a lot of society enjoys doing these days. If the haters took half the time they use to tear Pujols down, to learn what the guy is truly about, they would know where he stands. If you stand up for a player on this board, then you get bashed or accused of juvenile stuff like being brainwashed. Hardly the case..
You know what, there ARE genuine people who live their life by principles, morals, and faith in God. It's cool in the mainstream of society to knock people of faith these days, but I will say it again, Albert Pujols IS/HAS BEEN clean, and I will enjoy every at bat of his career, because we are seeing one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game. I guarantee you that he will never be found to have been a PED user, because that's not Albert Pujols. He is a good man, not perfect, who serves God, loves his family, and cares about the kids/fans who look up to him. As Albert has said, he IS a clean player, and he appreciates what God has done for him too much to ever do anything that silly, because it could all be taken away from him in the blink of an eye. Albert is living for God, and you can see what God is doing in Albert Pujols' life, by blessing him with a great family and career.
Imagine if you came home and your wife had receive calls from numerous people that you were sleeping around on her, when you truly was not? Imagine if your wife starts to doubt you or actually buy into the lies? How can you restore your good name, or trust from your wife? How can you get back what was stolen from you? How would you feel if that caused problems/torment in your life, when you truly were innocent? Think about it, people. If a player is caught, then I have no problem with someone saying their piece about that player, but until then, it's absolutely pointless/classless to toss out cheap speculation.
>>
Thought I heard a choir singing there for a minute.
We already have a St. Albert. We'll have to find another name.
Perhaps though you should consider coming down from the cross. We need the wood.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ryan Howard is definitely not on steroids. >>
I am sure of it - I have a Topps "certified clean" urine sample card of Ryan Howard. >>
Comes with a signed COA from a Dr. Katz
Steve
<< <i>There ARE some good guys still playing, and I am here to tell you Albert Pujols is one of them. All the people that enjoy bashing him, or the fans that stand up for him, just want him to be guilty of something so they can tear him down. Sadly, that's what a lot of society enjoys doing these days. If the haters took half the time they use to tear Pujols down, to learn what the guy is truly about, they would know where he stands. If you stand up for a player on this board, then you get bashed or accused of juvenile stuff like being brainwashed. Hardly the case..
You know what, there ARE genuine people who live their life by principles, morals, and faith in God. It's cool in the mainstream of society to knock people of faith these days, but I will say it again, Albert Pujols IS/HAS BEEN clean, and I will enjoy every at bat of his career, because we are seeing one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game. I guarantee you that he will never be found to have been a PED user, because that's not Albert Pujols. He is a good man, not perfect, who serves God, loves his family, and cares about the kids/fans who look up to him. As Albert has said, he IS a clean player, and he appreciates what God has done for him too much to ever do anything that silly, because it could all be taken away from him in the blink of an eye. Albert is living for God, and you can see what God is doing in Albert Pujols' life, by blessing him with a great family and career.
Imagine if you came home and your wife had receive calls from numerous people that you were sleeping around on her, when you truly was not? Imagine if your wife starts to doubt you or actually buy into the lies? How can you restore your good name, or trust from your wife? How can you get back what was stolen from you? How would you feel if that caused problems/torment in your life, when you truly were innocent? Think about it, people. If a player is caught, then I have no problem with someone saying their piece about that player, but until then, it's absolutely pointless/classless to toss out cheap speculation.
Pujols
Learn about who Pujols is >>
I understand what you are saying and I feel the same way, but you are making statements and have beliefs that are really based on blind faith. I totally hope (hope is not for sure or factual) that players like Albert, Piazza, Ripken, Jeter and all of the superstars past and present weren't dirty, but there will always be doubt. Just because someone lives for God doesn't mean a thing. Every day people who live for God do terrible crimes. Past players who used PED's were probably great guys and into serving the Lord and supporting their families. Remember, there was only person who lived on this earth who never sinned and it wasn't an athlete.
Respectfully,
brian
<< <i>
<< <i>There ARE some good guys still playing, and I am here to tell you Albert Pujols is one of them. All the people that enjoy bashing him, or the fans that stand up for him, just want him to be guilty of something so they can tear him down. Sadly, that's what a lot of society enjoys doing these days. If the haters took half the time they use to tear Pujols down, to learn what the guy is truly about, they would know where he stands. If you stand up for a player on this board, then you get bashed or accused of juvenile stuff like being brainwashed. Hardly the case..
You know what, there ARE genuine people who live their life by principles, morals, and faith in God. It's cool in the mainstream of society to knock people of faith these days, but I will say it again, Albert Pujols IS/HAS BEEN clean, and I will enjoy every at bat of his career, because we are seeing one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game. I guarantee you that he will never be found to have been a PED user, because that's not Albert Pujols. He is a good man, not perfect, who serves God, loves his family, and cares about the kids/fans who look up to him. As Albert has said, he IS a clean player, and he appreciates what God has done for him too much to ever do anything that silly, because it could all be taken away from him in the blink of an eye. Albert is living for God, and you can see what God is doing in Albert Pujols' life, by blessing him with a great family and career.
Imagine if you came home and your wife had receive calls from numerous people that you were sleeping around on her, when you truly was not? Imagine if your wife starts to doubt you or actually buy into the lies? How can you restore your good name, or trust from your wife? How can you get back what was stolen from you? How would you feel if that caused problems/torment in your life, when you truly were innocent? Think about it, people. If a player is caught, then I have no problem with someone saying their piece about that player, but until then, it's absolutely pointless/classless to toss out cheap speculation.
Pujols
Learn about who Pujols is >>
I understand what you are saying and I feel the same way, but you are making statements and have beliefs that are really based on blind faith. I totally hope (hope is not for sure or factual) that players like Albert, Piazza, Ripken, Jeter and all of the superstars past and present weren't dirty, but there will always be doubt. Just because someone lives for God doesn't mean a thing. Every day people who live for God do terrible crimes. Past players who used PED's were probably great guys and into serving the Lord and supporting their families. Remember, there was only person who lived on this earth who never sinned and it wasn't an athlete.
Respectfully,
brian >>
Come on, Brian. The bolded statement is ridiculous.
What's better, trust a player who you know is a good guy from personal experience, who lives for God, or to accuse/suspect him of nasty stuff just because other players have done it? How would you approach that if it was your friend? Seriously.. There are genuine people who care, and Albert is one of them. Just look at his off the field activities in case you don't know about them. He does not do that stuff for money. As a matter of fact, he does not have to do any of that stuff, and he could sit at home and rest, but that's not Albert Pujols. I have seen the man's heart on his sleeve at Pujols Family Foundation events. I trust Albert, and people can say whatever nonsense they want. It's just a waste of time, and a real shame to try and tarnish the reputation of a good guy. If I am proven otherwise, then the haters can bash me for it, but I know that day will never come to worry about.
*In the past, Piazza stated "off the record" that he done PED's. It was even talked about on ESPN this past week. I believe it was either Jayson Stark or Peter Gammons who spoke about it on the air.
without drugs, they put that hope on the shoulders of Pujols. If he ever tests positive it will destroy baseball. There will always be comparisons to the
old guys and for many that is what makes baseball great, but if the one guy who is most compared to the players who came before him, is found out to
be cheating, then the modern game as we know it will be ruined forever.
Kevin
<< <i>I think that Pujols is the last clean player the fans have hopes in. I think everyone hopes that at least one player can do well in the majors
without drugs, they put that hope on the shoulders of Pujols. If he ever tests positive it will destroy baseball. There will always be comparisons to the
old guys and for many that is what makes baseball great, but if the one guy who is most compared to the players who came before him, is found out to
be cheating, then the modern game as we know it will be ruined forever.
Kevin >>
That is my wishes too Kevin...I don't want any other superstar players to be tied to PED's and I don't want to see baseball tarnished anymore than it already is tarnished. All I've been saying is we can't say for sure that someone like Pujols is clean because he's religious and into God. I want Pujols to NOT be on the list and the same for others like Jeter, but we will NEVER know for sure until MLB and the Players Association does something about the list and the past random testing...Plus they need to do testing on EVERY player on a more regular basis.
Brian
<< <i>Come on, Brian. The bolded statement is ridiculous.
What's better, trust a player who you know is a good guy from personal experience, who lives for God, or to accuse/suspect him of nasty stuff just because other players have done it? How would you approach that if it was your friend? Seriously.. There are genuine people who care, and Albert is one of them. Just look at his off the field activities in case you don't know about them. He does not do that stuff for money. As a matter of fact, he does not have to do any of that stuff, and he could sit at home and rest, but that's not Albert Pujols. I have seen the man's heart on his sleeve at Pujols Family Foundation events. I trust Albert, and people can say whatever nonsense they want. It's just a waste of time, and a real shame to try and tarnish the reputation of a good guy. If I am proven otherwise, then the haters can bash me for it, but I know that day will never come to worry about.
*In the past, Piazza stated "off the record" that he done PED's. It was even talked about on ESPN this past week. I believe it was either Jayson Stark or Peter Gammons who spoke about it on the air. >>
I don't want to get into any religious debates here...
All I gotta say is I HAVE NEVER posted anywhere that I want any other superstars to be tied to PED's..I don't ..I don't want Pujols to be toed to PED's...And I have NEVER said that I know for sure Piazza didn't do any PED's. I have also heard the reports on what Piazza said off the record.
Lastly, I totally understand you have faith in Pujols and that's great....He's a great guy and does things that far exceeds what many others do in society.
I sincerely hope Ramirez is the last super star to be tied to PED's, but I know that will not be the case.
brian
It's unfortunate that we now cannot be surprised at any player who comes up dirty. Guess it just became a part of the institution and has never gone away.
Fans have been led to believe that the issue was addressed and is now on the wane. However it looks like players have at the least continued to cycle in the offseason and will continue to test the system.
I join those who are dismayed and support stiffer sanctions.
<< <i>I agree with the above, I think that Pujols is the last clean player the fans have hopes in. I think everyone hopes that at least one player can do well in the majors
without drugs, they put that hope on the shoulders of Pujols. If he ever tests positive it will destroy baseball. There will always be comparisons to the
old guys and for many that is what makes baseball great, but if the one guy who is most compared to the players who came before him, is found out to
be cheating, then the modern game as we know it will be ruined forever.
Kevin >>
No, it wouldn't 'destroy' baseball for Pujols to test positive, as, has been shown by the ever-increasing baseball attendance, the general sporting public does not care about steroids in sports. You may or may not, that's not the question here. What is is the assumption that positive steroid tests, even for huge names like Arod and Manny (or Pujols) would have any affect on attendance. It hasn't, and won't. The 'furor' over steroids in baseball is largely a work of fiction created by the sports media. Look around, how many people do you know have stopped going to games or is any less a fan because of steroids? I can't think of any, and I know a ton of sports fans.
For the general sports public, steroids is a non-issue.
Also, Don Mattingly and Randy Velarde
Dave
Black Socks, work stoppages (including cancelling the World Series), Pete Rose, PEDs, etc.
Fans have every right to be pissed but will eventually get over it. Yes, the sport will get yet another black eye and we will look back on this era as tainted. Names will continue to pop up and suspensions will be passed down. I'm fine with the media exposing cheaters. Heck, in fact, I highly encourage it.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it in the future..
However, the sport will continue to attract fans. As it was so eloquently said:
<< <i>Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. Of course, we won't mind if you look around, you'll say. It's only $20 per person. They'll pass over the money without even thinking about it: for it is money they have and peace they lack. And they'll walk out to the bleachers; sit in shirtsleeves on a perfect afternoon. They'll find they have reserved seats somewhere along one of the baselines, where they sat when they were children and cheered their heroes. And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come. >>
~ Terence Mann
edited to add youtube link