<< <i>Allegedly, it was a woman's fertility drug, which is on the banned list, and it kick starts your testosterone. They say that it used after a steroid cycle. >>
A friend that is into weight lifting told me the same thing - people on steroids, when their cycle is over they use the fertility drug to balance out the testosterone.
Of course he's saying it, you're looking at one paragraph at the end, instead of reading the whole thing
"All of us would have made a deal with the devil at the time. And maybe we did. We just didn't know it."
""It doesn't make him a good guy," I say. "You don't understand what it was like to follow baseball before you were born. There was a strike in 1994, and the World Series was canceled. Everyone hated baseball. Then Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa started hitting homers, and the balls started flying out of the park, and it was so much fun that everyone looked the other way. We didn't care that these guys were practically busting out of their skin or growing second foreheads. We really didn't. All the cheating made baseball more fun to watch. We were in denial. It was weird.
"Then, Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season, and that was like the turning point. We realized that things had gone too far. We blamed him for cheating and looked the other way with dozens of other guys who might have been doing the same thing. Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996; we didn't care. Bret Boone had 141 RBIs in a season; we didn't care. Big Papi went from 10 homers to 41 in four seasons; we didn't care. Roger Clemens was washed up, but suddenly he could throw 98 miles per hour and win Cy Youngs again; we didn't care. Eric Gagne saved 84 straight games and threw 120 miles an hour; we didn't care. Good players started blowing out tendons nobody had ever heard of; we didn't care. Pitchers blew out elbow tendons and shoulder ligaments routinely; we didn't care. This was the deal. They cheated; we pretended they didn't. It's really hard to explain unless you were there."
<< <i>Of course he's saying it, you're looking at one paragraph at the end, instead of reading the whole thing >>
Do I really need to explain it are are you just looking to argue? I mean, if you cannot comprehend his writing style, that's fine because not everyone does. However, based upon your earlier post, looks like the latter.
Good luck with that.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I've been reading Simmons for a while now, so I feel I have a pretty good grasp on what he's saying. And he, like most sports fans, might be a bit uncomfortable if they knew players on their team took steroids, but, ultimately, if it means ending a long drought of years without a championship, they'd be all in favor of it.
I'd like to know if there are any Cubs fans who would have disapproved of Sosa taking steroids if the Cubs had won a world series while he was there. I'm guessing that it would be less than 1%. People ultimately don't care. The only ones who do are the media folks trying to justify their existence and so-called baseball 'purists' who want to overlook the entire culture of cheating that baseball has always possessed. Why is a player like Gaylord Perry and his infamous 'spitter' embraced (he's in the hall of fame for god's sake!) but steroid users are the devil? Why is taking speed ok to get up for a day game after a night game ok (again, in the mind of the 'purist') but taking steroids or HGH to have a longer workout or recover from injury faster not ok?
Simmons eloquently stating what most fans really feels - that if their players used steroids, they'd have some hesitation but ultimately if it brings them a championship, they'd be ok with it. >>
What?? He's not saying that at all.
<< <i>We look at the 2004 banner again. I always thought that, for the rest of my life, I would look at that banner and think only good thoughts. Now, there's a mental asterisk that won't go away. I wish I could take a pill to shake it from my brain. I see 2004 and 2007, and think of Manny and Papi first and foremost. The modern-day Ruth and Gehrig. One of the great one-two punches in sports history. Were they cheating the whole time? Was Pedro cheating, too? That 2004 banner makes me think of these things now. I wish it didn't, but it does. This makes me sad. This makes me profoundly sad. >>
He's saying that those championships are, in his eyes, now tarnished. Every time he now looks at those banners, rather than thinking of the celebrations, he's going to think they didn't win it the right way and it's NOT okay. His dad's comments were written with tounge firmly planted in cheek.
IMO, I'm glad Manny was exposed, especially today. Anyone that's dumb to take any suppliments without consulting the team's doctors deserves public lashings. Female fertility drugs?!?! Seriously?!?! If he wanted to develop man-boobs, that's one thing but obviously, that isn't the case.
A-Roid is in the same boat, especially after throwing his cousin under the bus. >>
Barry, there is ZERO DOUBT in my mind that both Manny & Papi were doing the stuff during their ENTIRE Sox careers. Am I thinking the WS titles are tarnished? Absolutely NOT and I couldnt care less if Simmons or ANYONE feels that way or not. If people want to start on titles being tarnished then EVERY single title has been tarnished since around 1990 or so, the Sox put together a team on the same playing field as the rest of MLB ( Or at least the good teams )
<< <i>Barry, there is ZERO DOUBT in my mind that both Manny & Papi were doing the stuff during their ENTIRE Sox careers. Am I thinking the WS titles are tarnished? Absolutely NOT and I couldnt care less if Simmons or ANYONE feels that way or not. If people want to start on titles being tarnished then EVERY single title has been tarnished since around 1990 or so, the Sox put together a team on the same playing field as the rest of MLB ( Or at least the good teams ) >>
Doesn't matter what anyone says, it's how you personally feel. Some, like Simmons, will have resentment while others, such as yourself, don't give a flying flip.
In the end, that's all that matters.
As for A-Roid, he did more than just cheat by taking PEDs and constantly lieing about it. He also cheated his teammates by tipping plays/pitches. That, IMO, is unforgiveable.
I accept the fact that players took PEDs. I don't like it but it is what it is. However, and again, getting busted today deserves a public flogging.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Barry, there is ZERO DOUBT in my mind that both Manny & Papi were doing the stuff during their ENTIRE Sox careers. Am I thinking the WS titles are tarnished? Absolutely NOT and I couldnt care less if Simmons or ANYONE feels that way or not. If people want to start on titles being tarnished then EVERY single title has been tarnished since around 1990 or so, the Sox put together a team on the same playing field as the rest of MLB ( Or at least the good teams ) >>
Doesn't matter what anyone says, it's how you personally feel. Some, like Simmons, will have resentment while others, such as yourself, don't give a flying flip.
In the end, that's all that matters.
As for A-Roid, he did more than just cheat by taking PEDs and constantly lieing about it. He also cheated his teammates by tipping plays/pitches. That, IMO, is unforgiveable.
I accept the fact that players took PEDs. I don't like it but it is what it is. However, and again, getting busted today deserves a public flogging. >>
I wont comment on Arod only because I am biased when it comes to him/Yankees. I am 100% comfortable with our World Series wins as I am 100% certain that other teams that won it all deserved it too. I feel the same way you do about the situation, it is what it is.
<< <i> As for A-Roid, he did more than just cheat by taking PEDs and constantly lieing about it. He also cheated his teammates by tipping plays/pitches. That, IMO, is unforgiveable.
I accept the fact that players took PEDs. I don't like it but it is what it is. However, and again, getting busted today deserves a public flogging. >>
If you want to accept Serena Roberts anonymous 'sources' for Arod 'tipping' pitches, then you must do two things. You must be willing to accept the word of the woman who was the first to unequivocally crucify the Duke lacrosse players as guilty, and, still to this day, refuse to accept responsibility for her actions and express remorse and regret for being wrong and harming those kids' lives, two, you must be then be willing to crush all the players Arod was supposedly in cahoots with on tipping pitches. If he was tipping pitches, then that means he was getting the same treatment back. Why Arod continues to be accused in a vacuum (100+ other players tested positive when he did, where are there names? If he was tipping pitches, where are the names of his accomplices?)
What's unforgivable is the loose 'journalist' hacks like Roberts trashing people's reputations without fact or sources to back it up, and people so willing to accept it as fact just because they don't like the guy, without asking for actual substantiated sources and without asking for those who were his accomplices, simply because they hate Arod.
Not sure I would go as far as to accuse fans of being hypocrites. Long time fans, meaning those of us on the down side look at it as a black and white issue. If you do a culture check you can see generations raised with TV chock full of ads for this miracle drug or that one, a culture now dominated with instant gratification, a culture that pays multi-millions to individuals who help us satisfy that instant craving. So to many its not black and white.
The other guy should be banished for life for using PEDS, while if they give me the opportunity to make it to the big leagues or excel and make millions then I should just get a slap on the wrist. There are some decisions that we never have to make and thus we can remain pure and have the privilege to criticize others.
A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on.
Yet, for whatever reason, you want to tell me what I "must do"?
PFHT! HA! Yeah, right.
Calling people hypocrites, talking trash about the media?
Look in the mirror, Mr. Perfect, get off that high horse, and tell everyone that your poop doesn't stink.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on. >>
You forgot the most important one. He cheated himself.
What if he would have been just as good without cheating?
If you want to believe these ridiculous allegations that Arod cheated in 'tipping' pitches, then yes, you *must* then believe that other players were his accomplices. If you are unable or unwilling to do this, then you cannot believe the accusations that he was tipping pitches. If you sit there and honestly believe that he did this alone, then your dislike of Arod is so far out of whack then it's apparent you are willing to believe any published reports about him, and willing to believe he alone cheated. That's downright ridiculous. If you want to believe this travesty of a 'book', by all means go ahead, but you should put a disclaimer up that your views are ridiculously biased and have no foundation in reality.
<< <i>A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on. >>
Cheated on his wife? Wow that never happens. I mean no pro ballplayers have ever done that. Do you hate Kobe for cheating on his wife? Or any of the countless others for doing the same? Cheated fans? How exactly did Arod cheat fans? Oh you mean putting up MVP quality numbers every year? Yeah, what a bum! And cheated teammates? Again by putting up MVP numbers every year? Owners? Huh?
If your accusation is that he cheated all these people by taking PEDs, then where is your post about every player who has been busted for it? In this very thread about Manny getting busted, you choose to focus your irrational hate at Arod. Interesting. Hundreds of ballplayers who have taken something to give them an edge, and Arod is the one who say cheated owners, fans, and teammates.
<< <i>Calling people hypocrites, talking trash about the media? >>
Absolutely will call the media hypocrites. When they ignore the countless other baseball players and focus on a few, that's being hypocritical. When they totally ignore players like Merriman testing positive for steroids, and crucify manny and Arod, that's being hypocritical. When they focus on PED stories when its obvious that a vast majority of fans couldn't care less, when they focus on PEDs instead of real issues, that's being hypocritical.
Yes, the media (and sports media in particular) has become ridiculously lazy in their 'reporting'. Instead of working stories, they go for cheap, easy, tabloid stories like PEDs instead of tackling real stories.
<< <i>Look in the mirror, Mr. Perfect, get off that high horse, and tell everyone that your poop doesn't stink. >>
I never said I was perfect. I never said my poop didn't stink. But when I see someone doing their job poorly (i.e. the sports media), I have no qualms in calling that out. I didn't know you were so sensitive about the sports media. Perhaps its time to take a step back and use some objectivity, and realize how poor a job the sports media in general does.
I don't really care about who used in the 1980's - 2003 PED'S were not banned. No rules were broken in baseball. That is all the matters. The only thing that matters is 2004-NOW.
A-Rod has not failed a test yet so who cares. It is only cheating if you break the rules, and since PED'S were banned he has not failed a test yet.
If you consider using PED'S before 2004 as cheating, then any pitcher who through the Spit Ball (Shine Ball) befor 1920 cheated. Ban every who ever through one, even if it was allowed at the time.
The bottom line is it is only cheating if it is against the rules. The rule was not created until 2004, so anything before 2004 does not matter.
<< <i>A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on. >>
You forgot the most important one. He cheated himself.
What if he would have been just as good without cheating? >>
It's too bad that we will never know.
Maybe all those times he tipped plays will pay off for him going forward.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i> Maybe all those times he tipped plays will pay off for him going forward.
>>
You keep stating this as fact when the only people accusing him of it has been a tabloid reporter. Again, if you believe he did tip pitches, then you must believe he was working in concert with others. Your failure to admit this and believe he acted alone proves without a doubt your hatred of Arod to be fully illogical. Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this.
<< <i>Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this. >>
Oh really? Ironically, YOU were one of the first to bring up A-Roid in this thread. In fact, I didn't even mention him until AFTER you did.
Hypocrite.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this. >>
Oh really? Ironically, YOU were one of the first to bring up A-Roid in this thread. In fact, I didn't even mention him until AFTER you did.
Hypocrite.
>>
Wrong, again. Perhaps you should re-read the thread. Someone posted that it was time they picked on someone other than Arod. My initial post was using Manny and Arod as focuses on steroid coverage in baseball while steroid stories in the NFL are apparently taboo. Then you went on your diatribe about how Arod is a cheater.
But you have sidestepped what I asked you: if you honestly feel that Arod was tipping pitches, then he cannot possibly have acted alone. If the reason for his tipping pitches was to get the same when he came up, then he had to be working with at least one, if not many other players, yet your hate is reserved simply for Arod, calling the practice of tipping pitches worse than PED use. Where is your call for an investigation of these other players he was in cahoots with? Where's your hate for these other 'tippers'?
I wasn't the first to bring up Arod in this thread. Please re-read.
<< <i>I wasn't the first to bring up Arod in this thread. Please re-read. >>
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I didn't say you were the first, I said "one of the first". Big difference...
Sheesh, first Simmons' article and now this.
Hi Paul.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Arod has proven to be unworthy of praise in any way...
He is the ultimate liar, he is a phony, he is too full of himself, he fights like a woman...which he probably is, and he can no longer be praised so much on his ability to hit a baseball...becuase that has been artifically enhanced( since high school).
What quality does he have that makes somebody fight for him so dearly? Why does anyone even care about him except for his mom? There are a millions of people in our country worthy of more praise and recognition than him.
Almost all of these guys do them now anyway...but I keep all these modern accomplishments in perspective...a perspecitve of respect that is on par with being the WWF champion.
<< <i>Arod has proven to be unworthy of praise in any way...
He is the ultimate liar, he is a phony, he is too full of himself, he fights like a woman...which he probably is, and he can no longer be praised so much on his ability to hit a baseball...becuase that has been artifically enhanced( since high school).
What quality does he have that makes somebody fight for him so dearly? Why does anyone even care about him except for his mom? There are a millions of people in our country worthy of more praise and recognition than him.
Almost all of these guys do them now anyway...but I keep all these modern accomplishments in perspective...a perspecitve of respect that is on par with being the WWF champion. >>
POTD
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I'm still waiting for stown to come out and ask for the names of the people Arod supposedly conspired with and tipped pitches to. I'm still waiting for stown to come out and demand the names of the other 103 other baseball players who tested positive for PEDs with Arod. Until he does, he will remain in my mind as someone less concerned about cleaning up the game of baseball and holding everyone who cheated accountable and more interested in a witch hunt over one player. I don't know what he ever did to you (spurned your favorite team? refused an autograph request?) but to single out one player to be the bane of your existence is actually a little frightening. Its quite interesting to see someone so concerned with the actions of one player, who couldn't have act alone in the act of tipping pitches, yet has no interest in who the other players involved were. It's even more interesting that this person is more than willing to accept the word of a 'journalist' who's no better than a tabloid writer, who used anonymous sources for her 'book', and who is the same woman who stands by her rape allegations she so wildly threw at the Duke Lacrosse players, a woman who to this day admits no wrongdoing. It's incredibly interesting that someone who claims to want to stand up for the moral fiber of baseball has aligned himself with this tabloid writer.
<< <i>but to single out one player to be the bane of your existence is actually a little frightening. >>
In this thread alone, I've discussed Manny and A-Roid. That's not singular, it's plural.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>It is not a witch hunt if you are in fact a witch. >>
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
It is not a witch hunt if you are in fact a witch. >>
Sir Bedevere: What makes you think she's a witch? Peasant 3: Well, she turned me into a newt! Sir Bedevere: A newt? Peasant 3: [meekly after a long pause] ... I got better. Crowd: [shouts] Burn her anyway!
I'm inersted in buying a used mini-cooper for my cat to drive around town, especially when Kitty wants to pickup some cat food at the pet shop. Anybody gots a used mini-cooper for sale?
<< <i>I'm still waiting for stown to come out and ask for the names of the people Arod supposedly conspired with and tipped pitches to. I'm still waiting for stown to come out and demand the names of the other 103 other baseball players who tested positive for PEDs with Arod. Until he does, he will remain in my mind as someone less concerned about cleaning up the game of baseball and holding everyone who cheated accountable and more interested in a witch hunt over one player. I don't know what he ever did to you (spurned your favorite team? refused an autograph request?) but to single out one player to be the bane of your existence is actually a little frightening. Its quite interesting to see someone so concerned with the actions of one player, who couldn't have act alone in the act of tipping pitches, yet has no interest in who the other players involved were. It's even more interesting that this person is more than willing to accept the word of a 'journalist' who's no better than a tabloid writer, who used anonymous sources for her 'book', and who is the same woman who stands by her rape allegations she so wildly threw at the Duke Lacrosse players, a woman who to this day admits no wrongdoing. It's incredibly interesting that someone who claims to want to stand up for the moral fiber of baseball has aligned himself with this tabloid writer. >>
Since your such an Arod apoligist would you at least clarify your stance on his bush league play? IE: Infield fly ball, swatting the ball out of the glove of an oposing player as he was about to apply a tag? You know the plays Im talking about..
<< <i> Since your such an Arod apoligist would you at least clarify your stance on his bush league play? IE: Infield fly ball, swatting the ball out of the glove of an oposing player as he was about to apply a tag? You know the plays Im talking about.. >>
It was a terrible play, and I don't know what he was thinking in doing it. The only thing I can think of is he thought the tag was going to be brought in front of him as he was running down the line, but hell, it was awful. It's interesting to see people singling that play out...oh well. What's more interesting is that people (stown) refuse to acknowledge that if, as he claims, Arod was tipping pitches, he didn't work alone. That he wasn't the only person who tested positive. It's interesting people (stown) are so focused on Arod that they refuse to ask for the names of those who allegedly participated in the tipping of pitches, or the 100+ other players who tested positive with Arod. Stown, until you accept that Arod didn't work alone in the tipping of pitches, and until you demand the names of those involved, you will be nothing more than a hypocrite crying about supposed 'cheating'.
<< <i>you will be nothing more than a hypocrite >>
This alt, with 19 posts and the reading comprehension of a community college drop out, called me a hypocrite.
That really, really hurts.
Now pardon me while I go into a corner and cry myself to sleep.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i> What's more interesting is that people (stown) refuse to acknowledge that if, as he claims, Arod was tipping pitches, he didn't work alone. That he wasn't the only person who tested positive. It's interesting people (stown) are so focused on Arod that they refuse to ask for the names of those who allegedly participated in the tipping of pitches, or the 100+ other players who tested positive with Arod. Stown, until you accept that Arod didn't work alone in the tipping of pitches, and until you demand the names of those involved, you will be nothing more than a hypocrite crying about supposed 'cheating'.
Case closed. There is no way around it. >>
See this is where you are completely off-base, Stown doesnt have to do a thing. He has salted away his reputation here as a stand up guy who is VERY generous and brings alot of good things to the table where as you sir bring nothing but trouble and continue to expose yourself with every knew alt as an annoying instigator.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I was just about to give a +1 for an excellent thread resurrection but it went *poof*
Guess his 20-something alias did as well.
Just some somewhat friendly advice, Tinkerbell. Don't show your true colors so quickly. I had you pegged after your second post.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
It is kinda eerily ironic that a thread about Manny taking female fertility drugs brought out axtell.
Just sayin'
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
<< <i>Allegedly, it was a woman's fertility drug, which is on the banned list, and it kick starts your testosterone. They say that it used after a steroid cycle. >>
A friend that is into weight lifting told me the same thing - people on steroids, when their cycle is over they use the fertility drug to balance out the testosterone.
"All of us would have made a deal with the devil at the time. And maybe we did. We just didn't know it."
""It doesn't make him a good guy," I say. "You don't understand what it was like to follow baseball before you were born. There was a strike in 1994, and the World Series was canceled. Everyone hated baseball. Then Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa started hitting homers, and the balls started flying out of the park, and it was so much fun that everyone looked the other way. We didn't care that these guys were practically busting out of their skin or growing second foreheads. We really didn't. All the cheating made baseball more fun to watch. We were in denial. It was weird.
"Then, Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in a season, and that was like the turning point. We realized that things had gone too far. We blamed him for cheating and looked the other way with dozens of other guys who might have been doing the same thing. Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996; we didn't care. Bret Boone had 141 RBIs in a season; we didn't care. Big Papi went from 10 homers to 41 in four seasons; we didn't care. Roger Clemens was washed up, but suddenly he could throw 98 miles per hour and win Cy Youngs again; we didn't care. Eric Gagne saved 84 straight games and threw 120 miles an hour; we didn't care. Good players started blowing out tendons nobody had ever heard of; we didn't care. Pitchers blew out elbow tendons and shoulder ligaments routinely; we didn't care. This was the deal. They cheated; we pretended they didn't. It's really hard to explain unless you were there."
<< <i>Of course he's saying it, you're looking at one paragraph at the end, instead of reading the whole thing >>
Do I really need to explain it are are you just looking to argue? I mean, if you cannot comprehend his writing style, that's fine because not everyone does. However, based upon your earlier post, looks like the latter.
Good luck with that.
I'd like to know if there are any Cubs fans who would have disapproved of Sosa taking steroids if the Cubs had won a world series while he was there. I'm guessing that it would be less than 1%. People ultimately don't care. The only ones who do are the media folks trying to justify their existence and so-called baseball 'purists' who want to overlook the entire culture of cheating that baseball has always possessed. Why is a player like Gaylord Perry and his infamous 'spitter' embraced (he's in the hall of fame for god's sake!) but steroid users are the devil? Why is taking speed ok to get up for a day game after a night game ok (again, in the mind of the 'purist') but taking steroids or HGH to have a longer workout or recover from injury faster not ok?
The hypocrisy in the PED issue is mind-boggling.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Red Sox fans may not want to read this.
My Worst Nightmare - Bill Simmons >>
Simmons eloquently stating what most fans really feels - that if their players used steroids, they'd have some hesitation but ultimately if it brings them a championship, they'd be ok with it. >>
What?? He's not saying that at all.
<< <i>We look at the 2004 banner again. I always thought that, for the rest of my life, I would look at that banner and think only good thoughts. Now, there's a mental asterisk that won't go away. I wish I could take a pill to shake it from my brain. I see 2004 and 2007, and think of Manny and Papi first and foremost. The modern-day Ruth and Gehrig. One of the great one-two punches in sports history. Were they cheating the whole time? Was Pedro cheating, too? That 2004 banner makes me think of these things now. I wish it didn't, but it does. This makes me sad. This makes me profoundly sad. >>
He's saying that those championships are, in his eyes, now tarnished. Every time he now looks at those banners, rather than thinking of the celebrations, he's going to think they didn't win it the right way and it's NOT okay. His dad's comments were written with tounge firmly planted in cheek.
IMO, I'm glad Manny was exposed, especially today. Anyone that's dumb to take any suppliments without consulting the team's doctors deserves public lashings. Female fertility drugs?!?! Seriously?!?! If he wanted to develop man-boobs, that's one thing but obviously, that isn't the case.
A-Roid is in the same boat, especially after throwing his cousin under the bus. >>
Barry, there is ZERO DOUBT in my mind that both Manny & Papi were doing the stuff during their ENTIRE Sox careers. Am I thinking the WS titles are tarnished? Absolutely NOT and I couldnt care less if Simmons or ANYONE feels that way or not. If people want to start on titles being tarnished then EVERY single title has been tarnished since around 1990 or so, the Sox put together a team on the same playing field as the rest of MLB ( Or at least the good teams )
<< <i>Barry, there is ZERO DOUBT in my mind that both Manny & Papi were doing the stuff during their ENTIRE Sox careers. Am I thinking the WS titles are tarnished? Absolutely NOT and I couldnt care less if Simmons or ANYONE feels that way or not. If people want to start on titles being tarnished then EVERY single title has been tarnished since around 1990 or so, the Sox put together a team on the same playing field as the rest of MLB ( Or at least the good teams ) >>
Doesn't matter what anyone says, it's how you personally feel. Some, like Simmons, will have resentment while others, such as yourself, don't give a flying flip.
In the end, that's all that matters.
As for A-Roid, he did more than just cheat by taking PEDs and constantly lieing about it. He also cheated his teammates by tipping plays/pitches. That, IMO, is unforgiveable.
I accept the fact that players took PEDs. I don't like it but it is what it is. However, and again, getting busted today deserves a public flogging.
<< <i>
<< <i>Barry, there is ZERO DOUBT in my mind that both Manny & Papi were doing the stuff during their ENTIRE Sox careers. Am I thinking the WS titles are tarnished? Absolutely NOT and I couldnt care less if Simmons or ANYONE feels that way or not. If people want to start on titles being tarnished then EVERY single title has been tarnished since around 1990 or so, the Sox put together a team on the same playing field as the rest of MLB ( Or at least the good teams ) >>
Doesn't matter what anyone says, it's how you personally feel. Some, like Simmons, will have resentment while others, such as yourself, don't give a flying flip.
In the end, that's all that matters.
As for A-Roid, he did more than just cheat by taking PEDs and constantly lieing about it. He also cheated his teammates by tipping plays/pitches. That, IMO, is unforgiveable.
I accept the fact that players took PEDs. I don't like it but it is what it is. However, and again, getting busted today deserves a public flogging. >>
I wont comment on Arod only because I am biased when it comes to him/Yankees. I am 100% comfortable with our World Series wins as I am 100% certain that other teams that won it all deserved it too. I feel the same way you do about the situation, it is what it is.
Oh and the public flogging comment =
<< <i>
As for A-Roid, he did more than just cheat by taking PEDs and constantly lieing about it. He also cheated his teammates by tipping plays/pitches. That, IMO, is unforgiveable.
I accept the fact that players took PEDs. I don't like it but it is what it is. However, and again, getting busted today deserves a public flogging. >>
If you want to accept Serena Roberts anonymous 'sources' for Arod 'tipping' pitches, then you must do two things. You must be willing to accept the word of the woman who was the first to unequivocally crucify the Duke lacrosse players as guilty, and, still to this day, refuse to accept responsibility for her actions and express remorse and regret for being wrong and harming those kids' lives, two, you must be then be willing to crush all the players Arod was supposedly in cahoots with on tipping pitches. If he was tipping pitches, then that means he was getting the same treatment back. Why Arod continues to be accused in a vacuum (100+ other players tested positive when he did, where are there names? If he was tipping pitches, where are the names of his accomplices?)
What's unforgivable is the loose 'journalist' hacks like Roberts trashing people's reputations without fact or sources to back it up, and people so willing to accept it as fact just because they don't like the guy, without asking for actual substantiated sources and without asking for those who were his accomplices, simply because they hate Arod.
The other guy should be banished for life for using PEDS, while if they give me the opportunity to make it to the big leagues or excel and make millions then I should just get a slap on the wrist. There are some decisions that we never have to make and thus we can remain pure and have the privilege to criticize others.
<< <i>you must do two things >>
I don't have to "must do" anything.
A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on.
Yet, for whatever reason, you want to tell me what I "must do"?
PFHT! HA! Yeah, right.
Calling people hypocrites, talking trash about the media?
Look in the mirror, Mr. Perfect, get off that high horse, and tell everyone that your poop doesn't stink.
<< <i>A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on. >>
You forgot the most important one. He cheated himself.
What if he would have been just as good without cheating?
<< <i>Peter Gammons reports that the substance was NOT steroids. I guess we will find out from MLB excactly what is was later today. >>
It was HCG. It's to be used near the end of an AAS cycle to avoid testicular atrophy.
Dennis naturally produced PEDs!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>
I don't have to "must do" anything. >>
If you want to believe these ridiculous allegations that Arod cheated in 'tipping' pitches, then yes, you *must* then believe that other players were his accomplices. If you are unable or unwilling to do this, then you cannot believe the accusations that he was tipping pitches. If you sit there and honestly believe that he did this alone, then your dislike of Arod is so far out of whack then it's apparent you are willing to believe any published reports about him, and willing to believe he alone cheated. That's downright ridiculous. If you want to believe this travesty of a 'book', by all means go ahead, but you should put a disclaimer up that your views are ridiculously biased and have no foundation in reality.
<< <i>A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on. >>
Cheated on his wife? Wow that never happens. I mean no pro ballplayers have ever done that. Do you hate Kobe for cheating on his wife? Or any of the countless others for doing the same? Cheated fans? How exactly did Arod cheat fans? Oh you mean putting up MVP quality numbers every year? Yeah, what a bum! And cheated teammates? Again by putting up MVP numbers every year? Owners? Huh?
If your accusation is that he cheated all these people by taking PEDs, then where is your post about every player who has been busted for it? In this very thread about Manny getting busted, you choose to focus your irrational hate at Arod. Interesting. Hundreds of ballplayers who have taken something to give them an edge, and Arod is the one who say cheated owners, fans, and teammates.
<< <i>Calling people hypocrites, talking trash about the media? >>
Absolutely will call the media hypocrites. When they ignore the countless other baseball players and focus on a few, that's being hypocritical. When they totally ignore players like Merriman testing positive for steroids, and crucify manny and Arod, that's being hypocritical. When they focus on PED stories when its obvious that a vast majority of fans couldn't care less, when they focus on PEDs instead of real issues, that's being hypocritical.
Yes, the media (and sports media in particular) has become ridiculously lazy in their 'reporting'. Instead of working stories, they go for cheap, easy, tabloid stories like PEDs instead of tackling real stories.
<< <i>Look in the mirror, Mr. Perfect, get off that high horse, and tell everyone that your poop doesn't stink. >>
I never said I was perfect. I never said my poop didn't stink. But when I see someone doing their job poorly (i.e. the sports media), I have no qualms in calling that out. I didn't know you were so sensitive about the sports media. Perhaps its time to take a step back and use some objectivity, and realize how poor a job the sports media in general does.
I don't really care about who used in the 1980's - 2003 PED'S were not banned. No rules were broken in baseball. That is all the matters. The only thing that matters is 2004-NOW.
A-Rod has not failed a test yet so who cares. It is only cheating if you break the rules, and since PED'S were banned he has not failed a test yet.
If you consider using PED'S before 2004 as cheating, then any pitcher who through the Spit Ball (Shine Ball) befor 1920 cheated. Ban every who ever through one, even if it was allowed at the time.
The bottom line is it is only cheating if it is against the rules. The rule was not created until 2004, so anything before 2004 does not matter.
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>A-Roid is a cheat in so many ways that I've lost count. Cheated on his wife, cheated fans, cheated teammates, cheated Owners, the list goes on and on. >>
You forgot the most important one. He cheated himself.
What if he would have been just as good without cheating? >>
It's too bad that we will never know.
Maybe all those times he tipped plays will pay off for him going forward.
<< <i>
Maybe all those times he tipped plays will pay off for him going forward.
You keep stating this as fact when the only people accusing him of it has been a tabloid reporter. Again, if you believe he did tip pitches, then you must believe he was working in concert with others. Your failure to admit this and believe he acted alone proves without a doubt your hatred of Arod to be fully illogical. Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this.
<< <i>Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this. >>
Oh really? Ironically, YOU were one of the first to bring up A-Roid in this thread. In fact, I didn't even mention him until AFTER you did.
Hypocrite.
<< <i>
<< <i>Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this. >>
Oh really? Ironically, YOU were one of the first to bring up A-Roid in this thread. In fact, I didn't even mention him until AFTER you did.
Hypocrite.
+1 for Stown
<< <i>
<< <i>Again, focusing on Arod when the thread was about Manny further illustrates this. >>
Oh really? Ironically, YOU were one of the first to bring up A-Roid in this thread. In fact, I didn't even mention him until AFTER you did.
Hypocrite.
Wrong, again. Perhaps you should re-read the thread. Someone posted that it was time they picked on someone other than Arod. My initial post was using Manny and Arod as focuses on steroid coverage in baseball while steroid stories in the NFL are apparently taboo. Then you went on your diatribe about how Arod is a cheater.
But you have sidestepped what I asked you: if you honestly feel that Arod was tipping pitches, then he cannot possibly have acted alone. If the reason for his tipping pitches was to get the same when he came up, then he had to be working with at least one, if not many other players, yet your hate is reserved simply for Arod, calling the practice of tipping pitches worse than PED use. Where is your call for an investigation of these other players he was in cahoots with? Where's your hate for these other 'tippers'?
I wasn't the first to bring up Arod in this thread. Please re-read.
<< <i>I wasn't the first to bring up Arod in this thread. Please re-read. >>
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I didn't say you were the first, I said "one of the first". Big difference...
Sheesh, first Simmons' article and now this.
Hi Paul.
He is the ultimate liar, he is a phony, he is too full of himself, he fights like a woman...which he probably is, and he can no longer be praised so much on his ability to hit a baseball...becuase that has been artifically enhanced( since high school).
What quality does he have that makes somebody fight for him so dearly? Why does anyone even care about him except for his mom? There are a millions of people in our country worthy of more praise and recognition than him.
Almost all of these guys do them now anyway...but I keep all these modern accomplishments in perspective...a perspecitve of respect that is on par with being the WWF champion.
<< <i>Arod has proven to be unworthy of praise in any way...
He is the ultimate liar, he is a phony, he is too full of himself, he fights like a woman...which he probably is, and he can no longer be praised so much on his ability to hit a baseball...becuase that has been artifically enhanced( since high school).
What quality does he have that makes somebody fight for him so dearly? Why does anyone even care about him except for his mom? There are a millions of people in our country worthy of more praise and recognition than him.
Almost all of these guys do them now anyway...but I keep all these modern accomplishments in perspective...a perspecitve of respect that is on par with being the WWF champion. >>
POTD
Axtell
Welcome back for now.
Ya dope.
<< <i>but to single out one player to be the bane of your existence is actually a little frightening. >>
In this thread alone, I've discussed Manny and A-Roid. That's not singular, it's plural.
It is not a witch hunt if you are in fact a witch.
<< <i>It is not a witch hunt if you are in fact a witch. >>
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?
<< <i>Ax,
It is not a witch hunt if you are in fact a witch. >>
Sir Bedevere: What makes you think she's a witch?
Peasant 3: Well, she turned me into a newt!
Sir Bedevere: A newt?
Peasant 3: [meekly after a long pause] ... I got better.
Crowd: [shouts] Burn her anyway!
<< <i>I'm still waiting for stown to come out and ask for the names of the people Arod supposedly conspired with and tipped pitches to. I'm still waiting for stown to come out and demand the names of the other 103 other baseball players who tested positive for PEDs with Arod. Until he does, he will remain in my mind as someone less concerned about cleaning up the game of baseball and holding everyone who cheated accountable and more interested in a witch hunt over one player. I don't know what he ever did to you (spurned your favorite team? refused an autograph request?) but to single out one player to be the bane of your existence is actually a little frightening. Its quite interesting to see someone so concerned with the actions of one player, who couldn't have act alone in the act of tipping pitches, yet has no interest in who the other players involved were. It's even more interesting that this person is more than willing to accept the word of a 'journalist' who's no better than a tabloid writer, who used anonymous sources for her 'book', and who is the same woman who stands by her rape allegations she so wildly threw at the Duke Lacrosse players, a woman who to this day admits no wrongdoing. It's incredibly interesting that someone who claims to want to stand up for the moral fiber of baseball has aligned himself with this tabloid writer. >>
Since your such an Arod apoligist would you at least clarify your stance on his bush league play? IE: Infield fly ball, swatting the ball out of the glove of an oposing player as he was about to apply a tag? You know the plays Im talking about..
<< <i>
Since your such an Arod apoligist would you at least clarify your stance on his bush league play? IE: Infield fly ball, swatting the ball out of the glove of an oposing player as he was about to apply a tag? You know the plays Im talking about.. >>
It was a terrible play, and I don't know what he was thinking in doing it. The only thing I can think of is he thought the tag was going to be brought in front of him as he was running down the line, but hell, it was awful. It's interesting to see people singling that play out...oh well. What's more interesting is that people (stown) refuse to acknowledge that if, as he claims, Arod was tipping pitches, he didn't work alone. That he wasn't the only person who tested positive. It's interesting people (stown) are so focused on Arod that they refuse to ask for the names of those who allegedly participated in the tipping of pitches, or the 100+ other players who tested positive with Arod. Stown, until you accept that Arod didn't work alone in the tipping of pitches, and until you demand the names of those involved, you will be nothing more than a hypocrite crying about supposed 'cheating'.
Case closed. There is no way around it.
<< <i>you will be nothing more than a hypocrite >>
This alt, with 19 posts and the reading comprehension of a community college drop out, called me a hypocrite.
That really, really hurts.
Now pardon me while I go into a corner and cry myself to sleep.
<< <i> What's more interesting is that people (stown) refuse to acknowledge that if, as he claims, Arod was tipping pitches, he didn't work alone. That he wasn't the only person who tested positive. It's interesting people (stown) are so focused on Arod that they refuse to ask for the names of those who allegedly participated in the tipping of pitches, or the 100+ other players who tested positive with Arod. Stown, until you accept that Arod didn't work alone in the tipping of pitches, and until you demand the names of those involved, you will be nothing more than a hypocrite crying about supposed 'cheating'.
Case closed. There is no way around it. >>
See this is where you are completely off-base, Stown doesnt have to do a thing. He has salted away his reputation here as a stand up guy who is VERY generous and brings alot of good things to the table where as you sir bring nothing but trouble and continue to expose yourself with every knew alt as an annoying instigator.
<< <i>alot of good things to the table >>
Yeah, like my keen insight and witty banter.
<< <i>
<< <i>alot of good things to the table >>
Yeah, like my keen insight and witty banter.
Exactly.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>alot of good things to the table >>
Yeah, like my keen insight and witty banter.
Exactly.
Hey Paul. How's that rash? Is it still spreading?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>alot of good things to the table >>
Yeah, like my keen insight and witty banter.
Exactly.
Hey Paul. How's that rash? Is it still spreading?
Guess his 20-something alias did as well.
Just some somewhat friendly advice, Tinkerbell. Don't show your true colors so quickly. I had you pegged after your second post.
Well, how about a cell phone then? It has a camera with many pixels.
Nice try and better luck next time.
Just sayin'
<< <i>It is kinda eerily ironic that a thread about Manny taking female fertility drugs brought out axtell.
Just sayin' >>
All in all it has been a great day!
Is there a Niam Desparil character in that game?