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My opinion of Cherypicking is changing.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'll be honest, I've "flipped" my share of coins during my collecting life. For the most part, though, when I go-a-pickin' it's generally with the hope of finding something for my core collection which will be either an upgrade or a new addition. What I've noticed lately is that the majority of CherryPickers seem as though they are really little more than wannabe-dealers or oppurtunists hoping for a big score. I find that very distressing.
An example might be some of the VAM guys who are always on the prowl at shops and shows. It has struck me recently that they aren't looking for coins to add to their collections, usually when a "biggee" is found it's holdered and flipped for the big score after the obligatory round of eHighFives have taken place, perhaps helping to locate the payee of the flip. I'm always left wondering why someone would claim to be a collector of a specific hobby niche, only to be found selling the scarce/rare varieties they claim they collect. The same thing tends to hold true for collectors of a series with strike designations which command large premiums on some coins when the grade gets high enough. When they find one of the more difficult issues the first reaction is almost always the same; the submission, the announcement, the sale and the payday.
Why do CherryPickers seem to sell the monster varieties they find when it would seem logical that they'd want to keep them in their collections??
Al H.
An example might be some of the VAM guys who are always on the prowl at shops and shows. It has struck me recently that they aren't looking for coins to add to their collections, usually when a "biggee" is found it's holdered and flipped for the big score after the obligatory round of eHighFives have taken place, perhaps helping to locate the payee of the flip. I'm always left wondering why someone would claim to be a collector of a specific hobby niche, only to be found selling the scarce/rare varieties they claim they collect. The same thing tends to hold true for collectors of a series with strike designations which command large premiums on some coins when the grade gets high enough. When they find one of the more difficult issues the first reaction is almost always the same; the submission, the announcement, the sale and the payday.
Why do CherryPickers seem to sell the monster varieties they find when it would seem logical that they'd want to keep them in their collections??
Al H.
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I dont know what type of cherry picking coins Id have the best shot finding even if its a 3 or 5.00 coin.
<< <i>
Why do CherryPickers seem to sell the monster varieties they find when it would seem logical that they'd want to keep them in their collections??
Al H. >>
To profit?
Just sayin'.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
TD
There is a sense of excitement and satisfaction finding a variety or error coin whether in a certified holder, proof/mint set or a 2x2 flip that both the collector and flipper share even though their end goals differ greatly.
for the money.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>I'll be honest, I've "flipped" my share of coins during my collecting life.
...
Wy do CherryPickers seem to sell the monster varieties they find when it would seem logical that they'd want to keep them in their collections?? >>
Al, Other than the amount of gross profit, how is your flipping a coin any different from a someone cherrypicking and selling a coin? It seems to me you are judging people for something that you are also guilty of. Respectfully...Mike
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
<< <i>Would it be any better if they used the profits from cherrypicking and flipping to buy coins for their core collection that they otherwise couldn't afford? Like, what if they get really good at picking a few desirable varieties and keep the best for their collection and then sell off the duplicates they picked and use the profits to continue building their core collection? Would you have a problem with that type of picker? That's what I think of when I hear the term. I couldn't imagine anyone being so into it if they weren't building a core collection. >>
Your post describes me to a tee, though being honest not all of the profits get turned back into the core collection. It's unlikely that I'll cherrypick a seated half clip, but I can sure pick off a seated half variety, flip it and use the profit to buy an already attributed clip.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I may sell my collection sooner than later but, having collected them much longer than most, it would not constitute flipping. I might not make an overall profit but will defitinely get good money on specific ones. Another point to make is that some of us not only colelct the rare and valuable ones but also the ones that are not worth more than common money, just to have a more complete set. However, some dealers, knowing you are a VAM guy, just assume you are cherrying a premium VAM each and every time and never let you have it for common greysheet. You get set up for a loss every time with some of them.
Do we try to get it in PCGS plastic? Of course, it is the best place to be for whatever day it will be sold. And we celebrate it. That doesn't mean we are announcing our intentions to sell.
With respect to our peers who just pick, slab, and sell on eBay? They are earning the premiums they are getting as they got the education needed to do that. Bet if you took all of the money made by any individual doing this and divided by the amount of time even just locating the coins (ignoring the time to get educated, peer discussions, sending off to TPGs, listing for sale, ...), the hourly wage is pitiful. Some of us command a lot better money in our careers and real businesses. This is for enjoyment.
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Before I came to this (or any) coin discussion board, I knew little of VAM's or cherrypicking.
I knew that a couple of local guys at the local shop did it, and they seemed like they were having fun (albeit a little weird).
I came here and started to learn, and apply that information.
When I went through a roll of 1878-P Morgans, I noticed some interesting varieties. I sent the roll to Messydesk for his assistance.
He sent the attributions back to me, noting which ones would be slabbed by PCGS.
3 years later, I got around to sending them out. When I got them back, there was one that got some buzz going.
Since I do not collect Morgans in any way, I decided to sell the subject coin. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't myself being picked, so I sough wise counsel.
Through a process, it ended up in the hands of someone who needed/ wanted/ appreciated it for his collection.
I sold it for a fair price. I did not need the money; my desire was to have the coin be meaningful to the right person.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I helped put myself through college buying GEM BU 1880/7-P & S dollars at $5 each and flipping them as the overdates for $10 each. This was back about 1970........
TD >>
You should feel terrible!
But seriously, I've flipped several coins to help pay bills and I don't feel any remorse. Just like taking peoples money at the track.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
I have flipped a few as well, high on that list is the pair of 1936 DDO #1's that I holdered at XF-45 and a cpl 44 D/S....but those were bag finds and I already had a nice one is the collection.
Nothin wrong with it in my book.
So yes, there are some real VAM collectors out there.
It seems only natural that people who are into numismatics for the money (or treasure hunt, if you like) focus on collecting areas where it is possible to discover hidden gems. So they cherry pick for profit.
Truth is, discovering the hidden gems takes a lot of time and effort. So the profit seeking cherry pickers actually do a decent job that collectors can benefit from.
I buy lots of coins that do not really appeal to me. i just know that i can double my money and i buy it. ( not as much anymore) I call it the thrill of the hunt. You look for it and find it. That is the fun for me. So show me the money.
Not a cherrypick but i buy 1000's of unc lincoln rolls and 100 or more bags of circ wheaties a year to fund the coins i want. I am close to buying 600,000 unc lincolns. I am not a dealer but like to hunt for deals.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
what was once a $50+ purchase has become a $700+, with coins being upgraded having a substantial higher value as well
I look for raw coins to upgrade as well as already graded
while looking, I occasionally see an item I feel is mispriced, that I buy for temporary holding then sale
yes, I am a wanna-be dealer that would like to get good enough to be able to either
1) increase my collection value w/o large cash outlay
2) turn this into a part-time or full-time money generator
I am striving for a collection, not an accumulation of multiple copies of the same thing
keets, out of the early Jefferson proof years 1938-1942, how many versions do you own? and if you discovered a 38 rev of 40 would you sell it or keep it in your collection and let your heirs decide what to do with it
It will not leave my collection unless my interest shift. And I am offered moon money for it. Then again I found a 1902 Indian Head Cent Snow-4 in AU that I would part with in about half a second because I am not interested in the series but I happen to be looking at them in a coin shop and noticed something different about it that I knew was not right so I bought it. The sale of that coin will get me more of the series that I am interested in. Which I think is is a good thing it gets the varieties to the people that are interested in the series otherwise that lonely Indian would be languishing in a very small out of the way coin shop in S.W. Michigan. Now the coin has a chance to find a good and loving home.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
It was rather interesting when the PCGS variety sets started. Those who are high end collectors discovered real quick they could not run to those who buy for them and just acquire the coins. It was us cherry pickers who had to get them into plastic first and sell them in order for them to supply the market.
WS
The prospect of having a coin worth 4,5 or 10x cost has brought about a REAL DILEMMA- keep it, or flip it.
So far, it's still largely theoretical, although I've come oh-so-close a couple of times. It's still a problem, of the future.
Of course, if I find SEVERAL of these, I can keep some-- and flip some. Problem solved, except for what to flip, or keep. (getting a little ahead of reality here)
Most of the time, I'll have to settle on finding coins at good prices for collectors, but bad prices for traders.
(my current eBay listings have some great profit potential, or collection enhancement-at-a-good-price. )
1879-O{Rev}: 1st coin of my "secret set"
<< <i>Several times during my brief "career", it seemed like I MIGHT HAVE found a coin that might enhance my coin-collecting life-style. That's what this is about: get to a point where collecting is "self-funding".(Recovering some newbie "tuition" costs would be helpful)
The prospect of having a coin worth 4,5 or 10x cost has brought about a REAL DILEMMA- keep it, or flip it.
So far, it's still largely theoretical, although I've come oh-so-close a couple of times. It's still a problem, of the future.
Of course, if I find SEVERAL of these, I can keep some-- and flip some. Problem solved, except for what to flip, or keep. (getting a little ahead of reality here)
Most of the time, I'll have to settle on finding coins at good prices for collectors, but bad prices for traders.
(my current eBay listings have some great profit potential, or collection enhancement-at-a-good-price. ) >>
Smoetimes its best to flip while the flippin is good.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>Flipping is a disease associated with cherrypickin'. It can literally make a guy sick, depending on how much that flip goes for at a later date. That's how I know when I flopped >>
My "disease" is... I never sell them.
I will buy them at shows...
off of folks that don't know...
and they end up in a box for my..._________________.
Keeping this rated G... kids.
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
I found a 1922 weak D recently. Sold it. Why? I'm trying to be a type collector (well, I do have a 1927-D 3-legger, but that's apparently as far as I'll go with screwy die varieties). My idea of a "cherry pick" would be to find a nice 1916-D in a bargain box of Mercury dimes. Looking for VAMs or other weird die pairing doesn't hold an interest for me as a collector.
That said, if I can find variety that is "valuable" based on a collecting fad, then count me in the "wannabe-dealers or oppurtunists" category in the OP. I'm happy to take my fast turned cash and turn it into something more in line with what I want to collect.
<< <i>
That said, if I can find variety that is "valuable" based on a collecting fad, then count me in the "wannabe-dealers or oppurtunists" category in the OP. I'm happy to take my fast turned cash and turn it into something more in line with what I want to collect. >>
I doubt variety collecting will prove to be a fad so much as a long term trend. Indeed,
in this case it should be a very long term trend. Indeed, I would think the glory days
of variety collecting are in the future still. As collecting from circulation expands people
will simply be looking for something different. Old coins in high grade are fun to search
and some dates are relatively hard to find but complete sets won't be very difficult for
a couple decades yet. This means collectors who care less whether they have a VG or
an XF will pay more attention to varieties just for the thrill of the hunt. There are lots
of rare and common varieties in circulation which just might lead to increased interest.
I believe the trends toward varieties and high grades since the 1960's is largely driven
by the decision of the mint to stop making any low mintage coins for circulation back in
1933. With no truly rare dates or mint marks to seek out people started turning toward
high grades and now that circulating coinage is getting looked at again we just might see
much more interest in varieties.
<< <i>
<< <i>
That said, if I can find variety that is "valuable" based on a collecting fad, then count me in the "wannabe-dealers or oppurtunists" category in the OP. I'm happy to take my fast turned cash and turn it into something more in line with what I want to collect. >>
I doubt variety collecting will prove to be a fad so much as a long term trend. Indeed,
in this case it should be a very long term trend. Indeed, I would think the glory days
of variety collecting are in the future still. As collecting from circulation expands people
will simply be looking for something different. Old coins in high grade are fun to search
and some dates are relatively hard to find but complete sets won't be very difficult for
a couple decades yet. This means collectors who care less whether they have a VG or
an XF will pay more attention to varieties just for the thrill of the hunt. There are lots
of rare and common varieties in circulation which just might lead to increased interest.
I believe the trends toward varieties and high grades since the 1960's is largely driven
by the decision of the mint to stop making any low mintage coins for circulation back in
1933. With no truly rare dates or mint marks to seek out people started turning toward
high grades and now that circulating coinage is getting looked at again we just might see
much more interest in varieties. >>
You might be right. Perhaps "fad" is too strong of a word. "Trend" might have been a better choice of words. There are natural cycles in all collectibles. Stuff come in vogue then is out of vogue. Time will tell if variety collections hold steady, grow or decline.
Perhaps a better way of saying what I wanted to say would be, "I don't collect varieties. If I can cherrypick one and turn a quick profit, I'm happy to do so and then take the cash and put it towards something that I do enjoy collecting."
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
Just how many of the dealers out there will tell the truth.
Believe me they pick over your coins.
25 inf 1/14 Gold Dragons ,never surrender, over come and adapt
and hold at all cost!
<< <i>Through a process, it ended up in the hands of someone who needed/ wanted/ appreciated it for his collection.
I sold it for a fair price. I did not need the money; my desire was to have the coin be meaningful to the right person. >>
Bingo! The fact that my cherrypick covered a quarter of colleg helped make my decision to sell easier as well.
<< <i>Only one coin that I've cherrypicked thus far have I wanted or thought of seelling , an R5+ bust half, which I would make over $1500 dollars on. I'm 23 yrs old makeing that much money off a simple find is quite tempting. I see why some ppl pick to make quick money. >>
The fickle finger of fate has chosen someone other than Coxe.