This thread title should read: Stack's...er... Heritage 1909 VDB Proof NGC 65RB...er... PCGS64RB - What a difference a little plastic can make!
So hard to believe these two coins are ACTUALLY ONE in the SAME! All kidding aside, the too yellow photo from the Stack's auction left a lot to be desired, and it's nice to hear that the Heritage photo is a lot closer to the actual look of the coin. Right about now, I'll bet a lot of folks are wishing that they had bought that coin, including myself.
<< <i>Looks like the Heritage photo has been touched up to cover the obverse flyspecks that show in the Stacks photo. >>
I would doubt that the photo has been touched up. Taking photos like Stacks and Goldberg tend to exaggerate everything on the coin. Bowers would be on the other end of the spectrum ...
After wrestling with coin photography, one thing I learned is that there is no perfect picture out there. I've got a couple of coins that look great in hand, but are not photogenic at all.
<< <i>After wrestling with coin photography, one thing I learned is that there is no perfect picture out there. I've got a couple of coins that look great in hand, but are not photogenic at all. >>
And as I'm sure everybody here has noticed, some coins photograph better than they look in hand, especially when you are the buyer
<< <i> After wrestling with coin photography, one thing I learned is that there is no perfect picture out there. I've got a couple of coins that look great in hand, but are not photogenic at all.
>>
Well I know you've got at least couple that are sure photogenic.
I agree with most of what's been said, but there appears to be rim nicks at 9:00 obv and 1:00 rev that have magically disappeared in the new photo. JMHO.
The photos are almost meaningless to a serious buyer - Anyone who is going to truly pay for a nice VDB will either analyze the coin in hand or have an agent do so. Both dealers that I've spoken with (Brian Wagner being one, and Brain also commented positively in this very thread) have studied the coin closely and reported that it is a solid coin. I would take the word of experienced and reputable dealers over photographs any day!
"So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve"
The book on it is +/-37K and the coin is good quality for the grade. Considering some of the prices we have seen for other examples, no reason why it should not do well. It's not only that the money is short (neccesarily) in this economy, but importantly, there is a lack of quality coins. So even in this economy collectors are still looking for coins that are a good value. This is a truly scarce coin so logically it should do well.
<< <i>"So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve"
The book on it is +/-37K and the coin is good quality for the grade. Considering some of the prices we have seen for other examples, no reason why it should not do well. It's not only that the money is short (neccesarily) in this economy, but importantly, there is a lack of quality coins. So even in this economy collectors are still looking for coins that are a good value. This is a truly scarce coin so logically it should do well. >>
Well put. Quality means more than ever right now. Quality fetches good prices even in a slower market.
<< <i>So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve >>
Serious question..Why would this coin sell for more than $30,000 today? It just sold last month for $22,000 as per your post in this thread Steve. The feeling I get from reading the threads here is that anyone considering buying a VDB MPL is going to know which coins are available, which coins are new, and which coins are retreads, as this one is.
Is it because it is now in PCGS plastic? Given the rarity of the coin it really shouldn't matter what plastic it's in, especially since anyone can go to a show and cross the coin for $100. Is PCGS plastic really that powerful that the coin will bring over 30% more a mere 30 days later even at a lower grade? WOW.
edit....maybe the pictures will in fact do that, they are MUCH more flattering now
<< <i>So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve >>
Serious question..Why would this coin sell for more than $30,000 today? It just sold last month for $22,000 as per your post in this thread Steve. The feeling I get from reading the threads here is that anyone considering buying a VDB MPL is going to know which coins are available, which coins are new, and which coins are retreads, as this one is.
Is it because it is now in PCGS plastic? Given the rarity of the coin it really shouldn't matter what plastic it's in, especially since anyone can go to a show and cross the coin for $100. Is PCGS plastic really that powerful that the coin will bring over 30% more a mere 30 days later even at a lower grade? WOW.
edit....maybe the pictures will in fact do that, they are MUCH more flattering now >>
Rob, Lots of good points. I'm wondering if the Stacks sale was promoted properly. Certainly, we talk more about the Heritage sales here. That Stacks picture certainly didn't help it. I just saw that PCGS added this coin to their pop report, now 101 graded. Unfortunately, NGC has NOT reduced their census report, still 49 graded. Given all the possible things that may influence this coin at auction, I think my question as to final price is very viable. Interesting that the guy who won the coin attempted to cross at 65RB, got it to cross at 64RB and IMEDIATELY "flips" it hopeing for a quick profit in a down economy. Think the current owner is a collector or is he a dealer? Steve
Times are tough. Maybe the person needs the quick "turn" as s/he might not be able to tolerate that kind of capital tied up. It might have been a good idea to hold it a bit and try a few more times at PCGS for 65RB. It sure looks like it might make it someday.
Further thoughts about the 1909VDB MPL in the current market.
It seems to me that in the past six months we have seen an extraordinary number of these coins come to market. I remember just a couple of years ago when we would be lucky to see three or four available at auction in a year, and most of those were top pops. This, on top of what I perceive as the primary method of moving this issue. (ie) Private Treaty. When dealers don't normally have a coin to sell that has high demand from collectors, it seems only natural that when a dealer is offered one of these coins he/she will immediately offer it to his/her best customers who he/she knows is interested. We (collectors) don't usually hear what the price of the transaction is. One thing is very clear to me. THERE ARE NOT MANY (IF ANY) NEW "FRESH" 1909VDB MPL'S BEING SLABBED BY PCGS OR NGC. In the past 15 months PCGS and NGC combined slabbed a total of six of these coins including this one which we know is a crossover. So, what I think is happening is that a few owners of this rare issue, collectors who normally would want to continue owning it, are finding that because of the current economic situation they need to sell. I'm becoming more convinced that today no more than 5 of the listed 23 ANACS slabbed coins are still in ANACS holders. With all the crossovers and crackouts of the past few years I believe that far less than the 150 reported coins slabbed by PCGS and NGC are CURRENTLY in their holders. Maybe 100? And as far as those "out there" that are still RAW what collector will spend more than a couple of hundred dollars to take a chance to get a genuine example into a PCGS holder? So, the bottom line to me is this coin will continue to be very popular with Lincoln cent proof coin collectors and will continue to be a challenge for even those collectors who can easily afford one because the ACTUAL supply available is so small.
I recognize my comments are based on my very limited knowledge of the market for this coin. If anyone else has more input about the availability of this coin, I'm sure we all would like to hear it. Steve
Those are all good points, and here are a couple of other "points", the goodness of which may be debatable:
Yes, we have seen a number of these issues come to bear on the market recently. Five come to mind since I bought mine: the two NGC coins from late last year or FUN, I can't remember which. The ANACS coin, Andy's 64BN, and this latest offering in chameleon plastic. Question: Where are all the nice ones? It seems that in recent years, high-end examples were brought to market with some regularity, but lately, nothing nicer than the current offering has been seen.
Five coins is a pretty large number, but take into consideration the quality of such offerings, the fact that those coins are still riding high on the wave of price increases from mid 2008, and combine it with this "economic downturn". Suddenly that number doesn't seem so out of line. I'd worry a lot more if suddenly the market were flooded with 65s and 66s.
Shoot, even if I were flush with cash, these last few offerings have been pretty slim pickins, and have not really offered any solid investment ground, save maybe for the latest offering which appears to be quite nice for the grade.
As for this coin... getting it into PCGS plastic answers probably the most daunting question when making a purchase like this in an NGC holder: will PCGS even slab the coin? According to the Stack's photo, the coin IMHO was questionable color, with a slide mark or even a file mark on the rim. OF COURSE the bidding for that coin was light, regrdless of how well the auction was promoted, which in my opinion, with regard for that coin, it was promoted just fine. WE all saw it, didn't we? It takes a special kind of risk taker to gamble that kind of money on that strong of an uncertainty. And now that the coin resides in PCGS plastic, with an apparantly conservatively assigned grade, any future bidder can rest assured that the REAL market value of that coin is sealed.
And seriously folks, when have you seen such a four-square sixty-four? It may not BE a 65, but it's definitely in there, and will hang tight up against a nice high-end set.
Hear that splashing sound? It’s the cleaning crew mopping the blood off the auction room floor.
Taken from the subject thread of the recent Heritage auction on the coin forum page..
I think this will play in as to how much that VDB Matte will go. We may have finally seen the turn down in the collecting market that has defied all other markets.
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
Lloyd, The 1909VDB MPL is a different coin than any other MPL or most regular issue coins out there. #1. It is a very popular and sought after example in the MPL series and the the entire Lincoln proof series. #2. The coin being shown here apparently is considered a SOLID Pr64RB with a chance for upgrade. #3. The PCGS price guide says it is currently worth $37k retail. I don't think anyone would want to bury THAT coin. We will see what happens at the auction. Steve
Steve: I agree with a lot of what you have shared with the group, especially the view that any 09 VDB has a degree of rarity that will always make it a coin in demand by any serious Lincoln cent collector. That said, my opinion is whoever took the risk to purchase the coin in an NGC holder, gambling it would cross over to PCGS (even one grade lower), is entitled to whatever they can make in the transaction. Fact is, very few of us would have done this, and I definitely feel this coin will bring higher levels (already at $20,000 without the juice), most probably $30,000 or $32,500 (the next incremental bid level for Heritage), without the buyers fee. Jonathan.
<< <i>Steve: I agree with a lot of what you have shared with the group, especially the view that any 09 VDB has a degree of rarity that will always make it a coin in demand by any serious Lincoln cent collector. Jonathan. >>
Jonathan, My opinion regarding the rarity of the 1909VDB MPL is based on many years of following the reported sales of this coin. Since the mid 1990's I don't recall a certified example appearing for sale in any ad in Coin World, Numismatisc News, Coinage, or any other periodical. In fact, to acquire one of these coins IN ANY GRADE required bidding at a major auction or dealing with a friendly dealer who was able to do a private treaty transaction. Of course, when I say certified coin I am refering to PCGS, NGC or ANACS. There have been a number of RAW or other slabbed company examples available thru the years. My bet is that none of them would pass the key three diagnostic test. In this latest recessionary period, I've noticed a larger number of mid grade (PR64-PR65) examples come to auction, particularly from NGC slabs. My guess is that these people who have held this coin for a long period now need the money and must sell. In the prior five years it seemed like the only examples coming to auction were the top pops with increasing prices paid each year. I also sense that most of the additions to the population census each year are from crossovers out of ANACS and NGC and into PCGS holders. I do NOT sense any real INCREASE in the total populations from RAW. I would love to hear from dealers and other collectors either confirming or explaining their take on this coin. One thing is pretty evident as regards this particular coin at the Heritage auction. It is a mid level PR64RB with 21 examples graded by PCGS and yet the bidding has already exceeded $25k. If the final hammer + juice is close to the PCGS price guide of $37k, it will confirm that the prices in the guide are holding up. Steve
<< <i>Since the mid 1990's I don't recall a certified example appearing for sale in any ad in Coin World, Numismatisc News, Coinage, or any other periodical. >>
If I'm not mistaken, and I think Brian will remember the details better than me, ESM got his 1909 VDB PR66RD about a year or two ago straight from an ad in a coin magazine. I think he just called the dealer on the phone and bought it, or maybe I should say 'snapped it up.'
I wish it'd been me. I don't think he overpaid for it, not hardly!
I am not kidding,
G99G I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart NOT.
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
The coin is now at $34.5k with the juice (total 12 bidders) and internet bidding closes tonight. The auction is on Thursday night in Long Beach. The last bid now approaches the $37k PCGS pricing for a PR64RB confirming, that a least for THIS coin, the PCGS pricing guide is right on at the moment. Next month we will see how a PR65BN example with a NGC label does in Baltimore. Steve
<< <i>Steve: I agree with a lot of what you have shared with the group, especially the view that any 09 VDB has a degree of rarity that will always make it a coin in demand by any serious Lincoln cent collector. That said, my opinion is whoever took the risk to purchase the coin in an NGC holder, gambling it would cross over to PCGS (even one grade lower), is entitled to whatever they can make in the transaction. Fact is, very few of us would have done this, and I definitely feel this coin will bring higher levels (already at $20,000 without the juice), most probably $30,000 or $32,500 (the next incremental bid level for Heritage), without the buyers fee. Jonathan. >>
Well, at least TWO internet bidders went after the coin last night and brought the level up to $35k without the juice and $40,250 with the juice going into the live auction tonight. My guess is THAT will be the final on this coin, but it shows convincingly to me that the combination of a Heritage auction and a PCGS slab for the VDB MPL is very powerful. As Jonathan said, the owner who crossed this coin will do very well on this coin in a poor market. That says alot more about how rare THIS variety is. Congratulations to the new owner, whoever he or she is. Steve
ProofCents
Posts: 1,656
Comments
Stack's...er... Heritage 1909 VDB Proof NGC 65RB...er... PCGS64RB - What a difference a little plastic can make!
So hard to believe these two coins are ACTUALLY ONE in the SAME! All kidding aside, the too yellow photo from the Stack's auction left a lot to be desired, and it's nice to hear that the Heritage photo is a lot closer to the actual look of the coin. Right about now, I'll bet a lot of folks are wishing that they had bought that coin, including myself.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
(imo) The coin is original with a nice light red brown color. The Heritage image is by far the closest to the look of the coin. A very nice V.D.B.!!
My Ebay
1934-1958 RB Lincoln Short Set
if i'm reading this right???
anyways...yeah you bet that's quite a stunning example and heritage's shot sure does it alot of justice
i'm in the same coin crowd here
Thats right up my alley (and out of my wallet)
Thats not the same coin check out the hits on the beard they do not line up
It looks to be the same coin to me. I think the reverse markings match up pretty well.
Either way, it's a nice coin.
Jack
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Looks like the Heritage photo has been touched up to cover the obverse flyspecks that show in the Stacks photo. >>
I would doubt that the photo has been touched up. Taking photos like Stacks and Goldberg tend to exaggerate everything on the coin. Bowers would be on the other end of the spectrum ...
After wrestling with coin photography, one thing I learned is that there is no perfect picture out there. I've got a couple of coins that look great in hand, but are not photogenic at all.
Looks like a nice coin for the grade!
<< <i>After wrestling with coin photography, one thing I learned is that there is no perfect picture out there. I've got a couple of coins that look great in hand, but are not photogenic at all. >>
And as I'm sure everybody here has noticed, some coins photograph better than they look in hand, especially when you are the buyer
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>
After wrestling with coin photography, one thing I learned is that there is no perfect picture out there. I've got a couple of coins that look great in hand, but are not photogenic at all.
>>
Well I know you've got at least couple that are sure photogenic.
- Bob -
"Central Valley" Roosevelts
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
The book on it is +/-37K and the coin is good quality for the grade. Considering some of the prices we have seen for other examples, no reason why it should not do well. It's not only that the money is short (neccesarily) in this economy, but importantly, there is a lack of quality coins. So even in this economy collectors are still looking for coins that are a good value. This is a truly scarce coin so logically it should do well.
<< <i>"So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve"
The book on it is +/-37K and the coin is good quality for the grade. Considering some of the prices we have seen for other examples, no reason why it should not do well. It's not only that the money is short (neccesarily) in this economy, but importantly, there is a lack of quality coins. So even in this economy collectors are still looking for coins that are a good value. This is a truly scarce coin so logically it should do well. >>
Well put. Quality means more than ever right now. Quality fetches good prices even in a slower market.
<< <i>So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve
Serious question..Why would this coin sell for more than $30,000 today?
It just sold last month for $22,000 as per your post in this thread Steve. The feeling I get from reading the threads here is that anyone considering buying a VDB MPL is going to know which coins are available, which coins are new, and which coins are retreads, as this one is.
Is it because it is now in PCGS plastic? Given the rarity of the coin it really shouldn't matter what plastic it's in, especially since anyone can go to a show and cross the coin for $100. Is PCGS plastic really that powerful that the coin will bring over 30% more a mere 30 days later even at a lower grade? WOW.
edit....maybe the pictures will in fact do that, they are MUCH more flattering now
Lincoln set Colorless Set
Stack's LINK
Heritage's pics do it justice.
<< <i>
<< <i>So the BIG question here is WILL THIS COIN SELL FOR MORE THAN $30,000 IN THIS MARKET? Opinions are welcome. Steve
Serious question..Why would this coin sell for more than $30,000 today?
It just sold last month for $22,000 as per your post in this thread Steve. The feeling I get from reading the threads here is that anyone considering buying a VDB MPL is going to know which coins are available, which coins are new, and which coins are retreads, as this one is.
Is it because it is now in PCGS plastic? Given the rarity of the coin it really shouldn't matter what plastic it's in, especially since anyone can go to a show and cross the coin for $100. Is PCGS plastic really that powerful that the coin will bring over 30% more a mere 30 days later even at a lower grade? WOW.
edit....maybe the pictures will in fact do that, they are MUCH more flattering now
Rob,
Lots of good points. I'm wondering if the Stacks sale was promoted properly. Certainly, we talk more about the Heritage sales here. That Stacks picture certainly didn't help it. I just saw that PCGS added this coin to their pop report, now 101 graded. Unfortunately, NGC has NOT reduced their census report, still 49 graded. Given all the possible things that may influence this coin at auction, I think my question as to final price is very viable. Interesting that the guy who won the coin attempted to cross at 65RB, got it to cross at 64RB and IMEDIATELY "flips" it hopeing for a quick profit in a down economy. Think the current owner is a collector or is he a dealer?
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Times are tough. Maybe the person needs the quick "turn" as s/he might not be able to tolerate that kind of capital tied up. It might have been a good idea to hold it a bit and try a few more times at PCGS for 65RB. It sure looks like it might make it someday.
Jack
It seems to me that in the past six months we have seen an extraordinary number of these coins come to market. I remember just a couple of years ago when we would be lucky to see three or four available at auction in a year, and most of those were top pops. This, on top of what I perceive as the primary method of moving this issue. (ie) Private Treaty. When dealers don't normally have a coin to sell that has high demand from collectors, it seems only natural that when a dealer is offered one of these coins he/she will immediately offer it to his/her best customers who he/she knows is interested. We (collectors) don't usually hear what the price of the transaction is. One thing is very clear to me. THERE ARE NOT MANY (IF ANY) NEW "FRESH" 1909VDB MPL'S BEING SLABBED BY PCGS OR NGC. In the past 15 months PCGS and NGC combined slabbed a total of six of these coins including this one which we know is a crossover. So, what I think is happening is that a few owners of this rare issue, collectors who normally would want to continue owning it, are finding that because of the current economic situation they need to sell. I'm becoming more convinced that today no more than 5 of the listed 23 ANACS slabbed coins are still in ANACS holders. With all the crossovers and crackouts of the past few years I believe that far less than the 150 reported coins slabbed by PCGS and NGC are CURRENTLY in their holders. Maybe 100? And as far as those "out there" that are still RAW what collector will spend more than a couple of hundred dollars to take a chance to get a genuine example into a PCGS holder? So, the bottom line to me is this coin will continue to be very popular with Lincoln cent proof coin collectors and will continue to be a challenge for even those collectors who can easily afford one because the ACTUAL supply available is so small.
I recognize my comments are based on my very limited knowledge of the market for this coin. If anyone else has more input about the availability of this coin, I'm sure we all would like to hear it.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Those are all good points, and here are a couple of other "points", the goodness of which may be debatable:
Yes, we have seen a number of these issues come to bear on the market recently. Five come to mind since I bought mine: the two NGC coins from late last year or FUN, I can't remember which. The ANACS coin, Andy's 64BN, and this latest offering in chameleon plastic. Question: Where are all the nice ones? It seems that in recent years, high-end examples were brought to market with some regularity, but lately, nothing nicer than the current offering has been seen.
Five coins is a pretty large number, but take into consideration the quality of such offerings, the fact that those coins are still riding high on the wave of price increases from mid 2008, and combine it with this "economic downturn". Suddenly that number doesn't seem so out of line. I'd worry a lot more if suddenly the market were flooded with 65s and 66s.
Shoot, even if I were flush with cash, these last few offerings have been pretty slim pickins, and have not really offered any solid investment ground, save maybe for the latest offering which appears to be quite nice for the grade.
As for this coin... getting it into PCGS plastic answers probably the most daunting question when making a purchase like this in an NGC holder: will PCGS even slab the coin? According to the Stack's photo, the coin IMHO was questionable color, with a slide mark or even a file mark on the rim. OF COURSE the bidding for that coin was light, regrdless of how well the auction was promoted, which in my opinion, with regard for that coin, it was promoted just fine. WE all saw it, didn't we? It takes a special kind of risk taker to gamble that kind of money on that strong of an uncertainty. And now that the coin resides in PCGS plastic, with an apparantly conservatively assigned grade, any future bidder can rest assured that the REAL market value of that coin is sealed.
And seriously folks, when have you seen such a four-square sixty-four? It may not BE a 65, but it's definitely in there, and will hang tight up against a nice high-end set.
Anyway... happy bidding!
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
Hear that splashing sound? It’s the cleaning crew mopping the blood off the auction room floor.
Taken from the subject thread of the recent Heritage auction on the coin forum page..
I think this will play in as to how much that VDB Matte will go. We may have finally seen the turn down in the collecting market that has defied all other markets.
WS
<< <i>If it goes over,someone will be buried in it for a long time JMHO >>
That coin will never bury anybody. Sheesh!
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>
<< <i>If it goes over,someone will be buried in it for a long time JMHO >>
That coin will never bury anybody. Sheesh! >>
Oh i have buried myself in some INSANE coins too.Just meant put it away buried.Just you aint gonna sell it for more for a while buried.
The 1909VDB MPL is a different coin than any other MPL or most regular issue coins out there. #1. It is a very popular and sought after example in the MPL series and the the entire Lincoln proof series. #2. The coin being shown here apparently is considered a SOLID Pr64RB with a chance for upgrade. #3. The PCGS price guide says it is currently worth $37k retail. I don't think anyone would want to bury THAT coin. We will see what happens at the auction.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
I agree with a lot of what you have shared with the group, especially the view that any 09 VDB has a degree of rarity that will always make it a coin in demand by any serious Lincoln cent collector. That said, my opinion is whoever took the risk to purchase the coin in an NGC holder, gambling it would cross over to PCGS (even one grade lower), is entitled to whatever they can make in the transaction. Fact is, very few of us would have done this, and I definitely feel this coin will bring higher levels (already at $20,000 without the juice), most probably $30,000 or $32,500 (the next incremental bid level for Heritage), without the buyers fee.
Jonathan.
<< <i>Steve:
I agree with a lot of what you have shared with the group, especially the view that any 09 VDB has a degree of rarity that will always make it a coin in demand by any serious Lincoln cent collector.
Jonathan. >>
Jonathan,
My opinion regarding the rarity of the 1909VDB MPL is based on many years of following the reported sales of this coin. Since the mid 1990's I don't recall a certified example appearing for sale in any ad in Coin World, Numismatisc News, Coinage, or any other periodical. In fact, to acquire one of these coins IN ANY GRADE required bidding at a major auction or dealing with a friendly dealer who was able to do a private treaty transaction. Of course, when I say certified coin I am refering to PCGS, NGC or ANACS. There have been a number of RAW or other slabbed company examples available thru the years. My bet is that none of them would pass the key three diagnostic test.
In this latest recessionary period, I've noticed a larger number of mid grade (PR64-PR65) examples come to auction, particularly from NGC slabs. My guess is that these people who have held this coin for a long period now need the money and must sell. In the prior five years it seemed like the only examples coming to auction were the top pops with increasing prices paid each year. I also sense that most of the additions to the population census each year are from crossovers out of ANACS and NGC and into PCGS holders. I do NOT sense any real INCREASE in the total populations from RAW. I would love to hear from dealers and other collectors either confirming or explaining their take on this coin.
One thing is pretty evident as regards this particular coin at the Heritage auction. It is a mid level PR64RB with 21 examples graded by PCGS and yet the bidding has already exceeded $25k. If the final hammer + juice is close to the PCGS price guide of $37k, it will confirm that the prices in the guide are holding up. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>Since the mid 1990's I don't recall a certified example appearing for sale in any ad in Coin World, Numismatisc News, Coinage, or any other periodical. >>
If I'm not mistaken, and I think Brian will remember the details better than me, ESM got his 1909 VDB PR66RD about a year or two ago straight from an ad in a coin magazine. I think he just called the dealer on the phone and bought it, or maybe I should say 'snapped it up.'
I wish it'd been me. I don't think he overpaid for it, not hardly!
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
This ones at $29,900 right now including the buyers fee.
Nice snag, Pete!
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i> Next month we will see how a PR65BN example with a NGC label does in Baltimore. Steve
It will be quite a bargain if you could pick it up at NGC's NumisMedia price of $13,130. What a joke!!
- Bob -
"Central Valley" Roosevelts
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
- Bob -
"Central Valley" Roosevelts
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
<< <i>Coin is now at $40,250 with juice and 2+ hours of internet bidding left. Still 12 bidders. >>
<< <i>Steve:
I agree with a lot of what you have shared with the group, especially the view that any 09 VDB has a degree of rarity that will always make it a coin in demand by any serious Lincoln cent collector. That said, my opinion is whoever took the risk to purchase the coin in an NGC holder, gambling it would cross over to PCGS (even one grade lower), is entitled to whatever they can make in the transaction. Fact is, very few of us would have done this, and I definitely feel this coin will bring higher levels (already at $20,000 without the juice), most probably $30,000 or $32,500 (the next incremental bid level for Heritage), without the buyers fee.
Jonathan. >>
Well, at least TWO internet bidders went after the coin last night and brought the level up to $35k without the juice and $40,250 with the juice going into the live auction tonight. My guess is THAT will be the final on this coin, but it shows convincingly to me that the combination of a Heritage auction and a PCGS slab for the VDB MPL is very powerful. As Jonathan said, the owner who crossed this coin will do very well on this coin in a poor market. That says alot more about how rare THIS variety is. Congratulations to the new owner, whoever he or she is.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry