There is one fatal flaw with your reasoning that i see. The seats are already produced, and are being paid for. That would make them a fixed cost, not a variable cost. The supply demand curve would only come into play in this situation if they (the Yankees) were on the opposite end of the spectrum and were deciding wether or not to shut down the stadium because it costs more to have it open than it creates in profit.
You must treat these seats like it is rent, or start up machinery costs, not the actual product being produced.
Boo is missing another point as well that they probably don't teach in the school he attends but is a marketing tool used by many businesses and it's called "puppy dog" selling. Who ever returned a puppy dog to a store or kennel? Not usually, and the Yankees should be selling these seats at a loss if necessary in order to have fans enjoy the games so much that they will not want to give them up, and then possibly pay a higher price for them next season and beyond. Frankly, the Yankees front office doesn't seem to understand basic sales and marketing 101.
Ahh the things they don't teach in economics school.
But Boo is an intelligent guy - he'll get it sooner or later.
Arguing over ticket prices, player’s salaries, revenues, costs of revenue means jack s&i%.
If you are in a positive cash flow position, then you are making money. If you are not, then you have an awful business model. Let it go. I’m a Sox fan, but if the Yankees believe they can afford to continue to keep the seats selling at the current price and return positive cash flow, who cares.
If you discount those tickets you run into two problems:
(1) first (and most importantly) will be the ire raised by those who already bought them at the previous price. Unless you're willing to refund that money to those who previously paid, you're going to end up with a lot of ill-will, which would offset any gain in revenues by selling the other seats, or
(2) you run into raising the opinion that there's something wrong, that the yankees are not invincible, that they were wrong.
Neither of these options are more appealing than having some seats empty, which is exactly why the yankees are standing by with their current business plan. In the offseason you may see some adjusting of pricing, but there's little chance the yankees make any rash decisions based around a handful of games.
<< <i>It is APRIL fellows! It was 45 degrees outside. If the same seats are empty in JULY then lets discuss this as a problem then.
Steve >>
Temps are not a factor. Temps do not encourage fans to sit in every area of the ballpark except behind homeplate and the prime dugout seats down the 1st and 3rd baselines. If weather was a factor there would be swaths of empty seats all over the place. Not the case.
Yankees announce major price cut of prime seats. IMO they are still9 WAAAAAY over priced. The best seats in Philly for the champs go for 70 bucks I hear.
Please no more talk about "cost curves" and other foolishness. The Yankees very STUPIDLY outrageously overpriced tickets and ignored the horrible economy thinking the new ballpark would be a buffer.
Thank You
The Yankees have adjusted prices on more than 40 percent of the front-row seats at the new Yankee Stadium and will offer additional free seats to some ticket holders, it was announced on Tuesday.
The adjustments to the club's pricing policy were outlined in a statement authorized by Yankees managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner, and it came as a response to the a five-game homestand that saw a number of premium seats unoccupied at the $1.5 billion ballpark.
"A few weeks ago, I indicated that in light of the economy, we would review the pricing of a small number of our premium locations at Yankee Stadium, specifically, our Suite Seats," Steinbrenner said. "I mentioned a small number of locations because in excess of 3.4 million seats, including 37,000 full-season equivalents as well as approximately 85 percent of all our premium locations have already been sold.
"Yet, there are a few hundred Suite Seats in our premium locations that have not been sold on a full-season basis. As a result, and for many of our fans who have already purchased full-season Suite Seats in such premium locations, the Yankees are announcing today a program that adjusts certain prices and benefits affecting such Suite Seats."
For the rest of the 2009 regular season, the following price and benefit adjustments are being adopted for Legends Suite and Delta Sky 360 Suite licensees at the new Yankee Stadium, as outlined by the club:
• The full-season Legends Suite and Ticket Licenses in the first row in Sections 15A, 15B, 24B and 25 will be reduced from $2,500 to $1,250 per regular-season game. All fans who have purchased such full-season Suite and ticket licenses will receive, at their choice, a refund or a credit.
• The full-season Legends Suite and ticket licenses in the first row in Sections 11, 12, 13, 27B, 28 and 29 will be reduced from $1,000 to $650 per regular-season game. All fans who have purchased such full-season Suite and ticket licenses will receive, at their choice, a refund or a credit.
• All fans who purchased full-season $2,500 Legends Suite and ticket licenses in the first row, in Sections 16-24A, will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the first row in Sections 16-24A for each of the remaining regular-season games during the 2009 regular season.
• All fans who purchased full-season $1,250 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $1,250 Legends Suite price category for 24 games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• All fans who purchased full-season $850 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $850 Legends Suite price category for eight games and in the $500 Legends Suite price category for four games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• All fans who purchased full-season $600 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $500 Legends Suite price category for 10 games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• All fans who purchased full-season $500 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $500 Legends Suite price category for eight games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• Future 2009 regular season sales of full-season $1,250, $850, $600 and $500 Legends Suite and ticket licenses, will receive comparable (dependent upon the price of the Legends Suite and ticket license) benefits during the 2009 regular season, subject to availability.
• The Delta SKY 360 Suite and Ticket Licenses in the first row in Sections 218A-222 will be reduced from $750 to $550 for each regular-season game. All fans who have purchased such full-season Suite and ticket licenses will receive, at their choice, a refund or a credit.
In addition, for 2009, so as to encourage fans to purchase full-season ticket plans in the Field Level sections 115-125, the Yankees are also adopting a program affecting a few hundred seats. And, for our fans who have already purchased, on a full-season basis such Field Level seating priced at $325 Sections 115-125, the following program is being adopted effective immediately:
• Going forward all fans when purchasing, on a full season basis, three full regular-season ticket plans priced at $325 per regular-season game in Sections 115-125 will receive a fourth full-regular season ticket at no additional cost.
All fans who have purchased full season plans priced at $325 per regular-season game will receive complimentary regular season tickets within Sections 115-125 for remaining regular-season games during the 2009 regular season as follows:
• If you purchased two or three full-season tickets you will receive two tickets for every other regular-season game, commencing with either the Thursday evening game on April 30 or the Friday evening game on May 1 and alternating for the remainder of the season.
• If you purchased four or five full-season tickets you will receive two tickets for every regular-season game during the balance of the 2009 regular season, commencing with the Thursday evening game on April 30, 2009.
• If you purchased six or seven full-season tickets you will receive three tickets for every regular-season game during the balance of the 2009 regular season, commencing with the Thursday evening game on April 30, 2009.
• If you purchased eight full-season tickets, you will receive four tickets for every regular-season game during the balance of the 2009 regular season, commencing with the Thursday evening game on April 30.
Yankee Stadium officially opened to a sellout crowd of 48,271 on April 16 against the Cleveland Indians, and hosted five games on the inaugural homestand -- an April 20 game against the Oakland Athletics was rained out and rescheduled for July 23.
In all, Yankee Stadium has had 267,014 sold seats for the five games. The official capacity is listed at 52,325 in the club's media guide, but as they noted on April 16, more than 2,000 tickets were given away as complimentary seats.
"I think the Yankees are taking a proactive approach in understanding what's going on in our country and the world," Yankees manager Joe Girardi said. "I think they're reaching out to people. I think it's a good thing.
"The thing about that is, you don't know how many of those people are inside eating. I actually went and saw the dining room -- it was pretty nice and there's TVs all over. You do see empty seats, but you don't know how many people come and go. To me, I never really thought much of it."
Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter said that he noticed the empty seats during the homestand, mostly because it was a topic of discussion among media members.
"You noticed it, because everybody was talking about it," Jeter said. "You couldn't help but to look. But I'm sure if they did [adjust prices], they did it for a good reason.
"I don't know how many people are in this seat or that seat, but one of the differences between the new stadium and the old stadium is, when you're at the concessions, you can still the game. Even though people may not necessarily be in their seats, they're still at the game."
There is one fatal flaw with your reasoning that i see. The seats are already produced, and are being paid for. That would make them a fixed cost, not a variable cost. The supply demand curve would only come into play in this situation if they (the Yankees) were on the opposite end of the spectrum and were deciding wether or not to shut down the stadium because it costs more to have it open than it creates in profit.
You must treat these seats like it is rent, or start up machinery costs, not the actual product being produced. >>
Hi Fische,
I think the key concept here is the elasticity of demand-- whether the cost is fixed or variable doesn't end up being very important. Assuming you (i.e., 'the firm') has some price-setting power in the market for your commodity, you generally want to set the price at the level at which a 1% increase in the price will result in a 1% decrease in demand. If a 1% increase in price results in lower than 1% decrease in demand then your price is too low-- if >1 then it's too high.
Will a 1% increase in the price of seats behind home plate in Yankee stadium result in a greater than (or less than) 1% decrease in demand for those seats? I really don't know. It seems possible, but it also seems possible that it isn't.
Economic pricing models can, I think, be helpful in trying to 'ballpark' (pardon the terrible pun) the optimal price, but of course there's more to it than that, and no matter how hard one tries it's nearly impossible to be sure you have it right (since you never really know what the demand curve for your product looks like). What I was trying to get across is the fact-- and it is a fact-- that there are empty seats doesn't mean you've overpriced your product. There are other factors which go into pricing other than maximizing consumption IF you have market power. For instance, what if Bill Gates said 'I want to rent Yankee stadium for all home games this year, and I'll pay $200 million per game to have the stadium all to myself?' Clearly there's a spot at which higher prices are more beneficial than higher consumption. I thought that was an interesting observation.
Edit to add: The picture would be entirely different under the rules of perfect competition. But the fact that the Yankees have some monopoly power is what gives them the ability to SET the price, as opposed to TAKE the price, and that's why maximum consumption isn't necessarily the goal.
Boopotts is incredibly lost. He is obviously trying to outsmart himself with a fishing line tangle of way out in right field (somewhere) off base economic logic that in no way what-so-ever pertains to the sale of entertainment dollars in a abysmal economy.
These are ENTERTAINMENT dollars. The very first dollars that EVERYONE cuts in times like this. The New York Yankees DO NOT have the ability to "set the price" and was proved by todays HUGE 50% slash (not enough IMO) of these outrageously priced seats AND forced give back to the select few who could afford the stupid pricing "set" by the Yankees.
So, the Yankees just barfed out the first step that will INDEED lead to "TAKING" what they can get.
Boopotts, please do us all a favor and stop talking in economic "Chinese" like the Yankees are selling something EVERYBODY needs such as food, water, or friggen gasoline.
Temps are not a factor. Temps do not encourage fans to sit in every area of the ballpark except behind homeplate and the prime dugout seats down the 1st and 3rd baselines. If weather was a factor there would be swaths of empty seats all over the place. Not the case.
Temps were a factor, according to the Yankees, who claimed those people were in the restaurants instead of their seats.
And their were swaths of empty seats all over the place. Only these were shown after every pitch.
Steve
edit to add: I am not saying that all those 2,600.00 dollar seats were sold.
I was simply saying that it being early(cold) we could not prove 100% where those people were.
<< <i> Temps were a factor, according to the Yankees, who claimed those people were in the restaurants instead of their seats.
And their were swaths of empty seats all over the place. Only these were shown after every pitch.
Steve
edit to add: I am not saying that all those 2,600.00 dollar seats were sold.
I was simply saying that it being early(cold) we could not prove 100% where those people were. >>
ehhh.... I don't buy it Steve. The Yanks just today showed their true cards and SLASHED pricing (and NOT enough) on these prime time seats. If the Yankees TRULY thought temperatures at game time were a serious factor prices would not have been slashed before the 2nd home stand. If in fact the Yankees stated that temps were a factor it was merely a smokescreen as they scrambled behind the scenes to react to the blasphemy which are their ticket prices.
<< <i>Boopotts is incredibly lost. He is obviously trying to outsmart himself with a fishing line tangle of way out in right field (somewhere) off base economic logic that in no way what-so-ever pertains to the sale of entertainment dollars in a abysmal economy.
These are ENTERTAINMENT dollars. The very first dollars that EVERYONE shuts down in times like this. The New York Yankees DO NOT have the ability to "set the price" and was proved by todays HUGE 50% slash (not enough IMO) of these outrageously priced seats AND forced give back to the select few who could afford the stupid pricing "set" by the Yankees.
So, the Yankees just barfed out the first step that will INDEED lead to "TAKING" what they can get.
Boopotts, please do us all a favor and stop talking in economic "Chinese" like the Yankees are selling something EVERYBODY needs such as food, water, or friggen gasoline.
Thank you. >>
You don't get bonus points for using the caps lock button on your key words.
Since I've long since passed the stage where I'm willing to discuss issues with someone who isn't capable of listening I won't bother with a post that carefully explains why you're 100% wrong on all the above points. Suffice it to say, then, that that Yankees do, in fact, have market power, but this is not the same as saying they can charge whatever they want and still sell as many units as they desire. If that were true, then natural monopolies like utility companies could charge $500 per kilowatt hour and not see a decline in demand. Even a monopoly has a downward sloping demand curve.
The question is whether you can have empty seats and still be profit maximizing. The answer to that is an unequivocal 'yes', and if you don't understand why this is so you'd be doing yourself a considerable favor by taking the time to learn why this is so. Does that mean the Yankees are profit maximizing? No. Does it mean their seats aren't overpriced? No. Does it mean that the Yankees didn't make a serious mistake in their pricing strategy? No. What it does mean-- and I know you can't, or won't, understand this, but just for the hell of it I'll repeat it anyway-- is that nobody here has enough information to determine whether they made a mistake or not.
<< <i> These are ENTERTAINMENT dollars. The very first dollars that EVERYONE shuts down in times like this. >>
Not that it matters, but the very first dollars 'everyone' shuts down is not entertainment. Actually, in times of economic crisis, entertainment dollars actually rise. Look at movie theater/box office revenues, higher this year than last. People use entertainment to escape the rigors of poor economies, much the same way that alcohol consumption goes up in times of bad economies.
<< <i>The New York Yankees DO NOT have the ability to "set the price" and was proved by todays HUGE 50% slash (not enough IMO) of these outrageously priced seats AND forced give back to the select few who could afford the stupid pricing "set" by the Yankees. >>
They (and every pro sports team) has the ability to set the price. The yankees set the bar exceptionally high, had a few takers, now have moved the bar lower. They are still generating a ton of cash, and even at the 'reduced' prices are far above every other MLB team - thereby 'setting the price'.
Entertainment dollars are not the 'first' cost that 'everyone' cuts - far from it. Please don't confuse today's actions by the yankees as anything more than them wanting to bring in even more revenue to an already cash flush franchise.
The question IS NOT about "profit maximizing" It NEVER HAS BEEN. Who gives a rats rear end about silliness such as "profit maximizing" besides yourself? I can care less if you don't want to carry on with me about a subject that you are incredibly LOST on.
Here is a lesson for you.
1. The Yankees outrageously overprice tickets and is highlighted by an embarrassing amount of empty prime real estate during 1st home stand. 2. The idea is brought to attention by thread starter. 3. You carry on about laughable economic bullcrap regarding "cost curves" and "profit maximizing" 4. I respond in what you consider a sub standard or uneducated angle. 5. Yankees slash prices in April after the first homestand and not nearly enough as these tickets are STILL over priced. 6. You carry on with nonsense anyway.
Can somebody, anybody, tell me the last time the New York Yankees slashed prime seating prices by 50%? EVER?
<< <i> Not that it matters, but the very first dollars 'everyone' shuts down is not entertainment. Actually, in times of economic crisis, entertainment dollars actually rise. Look at movie theater/box office revenues, higher this year than last. People use entertainment to escape the rigors of poor economies, much the same way that alcohol consumption goes up in times of bad economies. >>
The movies? Do you care to do the math on how many movies with all the trimmings you can take your ENTIRE family to see on the price of ONE seat at ONE game without any trimmings in prime real estate in Yankee Stadium?
Holy crap! Please, Somebody tell me that I am out of whack here!
<< <i> Entertainment dollars are not the 'first' cost that 'everyone' cuts - far from it. Please don't confuse today's actions by the yankees as anything more than them wanting to bring in even more revenue to an already cash flush franchise. >>
You are kidding right? Are you that naive? You tell me the last time the New York Yankees cut dugout seats by 50% FIFTY PERCENT. (And its not enough)
You just got done saying that the first dollars 'everyone' cuts out are 'entertainment' dollars. The movies are entertainment...how does my comment not apply to yours?
<< <i> Not that it matters, but the very first dollars 'everyone' shuts down is not entertainment. Actually, in times of economic crisis, entertainment dollars actually rise. Look at movie theater/box office revenues, higher this year than last. People use entertainment to escape the rigors of poor economies, much the same way that alcohol consumption goes up in times of bad economies. >>
The movies? Do you care to do the math on how many movies with all the trimmings you can take your ENTIRE family to see on the price of ONE seat at ONE game without any trimmings in prime real estate in Yankee Stadium?
Holy crap! Please, Somebody tell me that I am out of whack here! >>
Boo is going to school for economics and I wish him well in that endeavor - however his posts here illustrate the old cliche that a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.
<< <i>You just got done saying that the first dollars 'everyone' cuts out are 'entertainment' dollars. The movies are entertainment...how does my comment not apply to yours? >>
Gee let me guess, and thank you for serving this one up on the ol silver platter.......
What should I do? Spend $10,000 on four easily available dugout seats for ONE GOD DAMN GAME at Yankee Stadium MINUS the food and parking or take my family to 100 movies, blow money on all kinds of crap candy, popcorn, etc.
Newsflash for you....... your arguement is bunk.
Are you really that DUMB?
Entertainment dollars are CUT I said. Not exiled. Please do not post any more laughable garbage like this huh? My goodness ....
<< <i>You just got done saying that the first dollars 'everyone' cuts out are 'entertainment' dollars. The movies are entertainment...how does my comment not apply to yours? >>
Gee let me guess, and thank you for serving this one up on the ol silver platter.......
What should I do? Spend $10,000 on four easily available dugout seats for ONE GOD DAMN GAME at Yankee Stadium MINUS the food and parking or take my family to 100 movies, blow money on all kinds of crap candy, popcorn, etc.
Newsflash for you....... your arguement is bunk.
Are you really that DUMB?
Entertainment dollars are CUT I said. Not exiled. Please do not post any more laughable garbage like this huh? My goodness .... >>
There's no argument here, there's simply countering your point of contention that the first dollars anyone cuts are entertainment dollars. I offered you hard evidence pointing to the contrary. Why you insist on mocking people with a countering opinion, calling them 'dumb' and 'naive' simply because they disagree with you is absurd.
The yankees simply overshot what they felt people would pay for premium seating. The seats still cost a ton. Premium seats at a premium venue for a premium-priced franchise has been the norm for a long time. Why you are getting so worked up over this topic, calling me 'dumb' and swearing is peculiar.
Your initial point that 'entertainment' dollars are what 'everyone' cuts first is the only 'bunk' statement in this whole thread.
<< <i> There's no argument here, there's simply countering your point of contention that the first dollars anyone cuts are entertainment dollars. I offered you hard evidence pointing to the contrary. Why you insist on mocking people with a countering opinion, calling them 'dumb' and 'naive' simply because they disagree with you is absurd.
The yankees simply overshot what they felt people would pay for premium seating. The seats still cost a ton. Premium seats at a premium venue for a premium-priced franchise has been the norm for a long time. Why you are getting so worked up over this topic, calling me 'dumb' and swearing is peculiar.
Your initial point that 'entertainment' dollars are what 'everyone' cuts first is the only 'bunk' statement in this whole thread. >>
You are a dope! (Sometimes insults are warranted ..... sorry grasshopper)
hey Phillies fans! How are those $70 dugout seats going?
softparade, insulting those who disagree with you and who shoot holes in your arguments just makes you out to be a sore loser. Look, you made the point about people cutting their entertainment budgets first, you said 'everyone' does it. I simply showed you that wasn't the case and gave you box office revenues as proof that entertainment budgets are not being cut back. The yankees either overestimated the number of people who would pay $2600 a ticket, or this was all part of a master plan to sell them at $1000 and wanted to show what a 'value' they were by initially pricing them at more than double. Anyone spending $1000 a ticket isn't affected by the economy. They are so wealthy that they don't care.
You yelling through the use of caps and insulting those who disagree aren't doing your side of the debate any favors.
<< <i> The yankees simply overshot what they felt people would pay for premium seating. The seats still cost a ton. Premium seats at a premium venue for a premium-priced franchise has been the norm for a long time. >>
Huh, I missed this jewel. Must comment.
Just what "norm" are you talking about ?????
I refuse to believe that the majority around here are this #%!@%#! clueless. Yeahhhh man .... the norm for a long time man ... Am I the one who has to point out to this stooge that todays "norm" has not been seen for generations?
<< <i>softparade, insulting those who disagree with you and who shoot holes in your arguments just makes you out to be a sore loser. Look, you made the point about people cutting their entertainment budgets first, you said 'everyone' does it. I simply showed you that wasn't the case and gave you box office revenues as proof that entertainment budgets are not being cut back. The yankees either overestimated the number of people who would pay $2600 a ticket, or this was all part of a master plan to sell them at $1000 and wanted to show what a 'value' they were by initially pricing them at more than double. Anyone spending $1000 a ticket isn't affected by the economy. They are so wealthy that they don't care.
You yelling through the use of caps and insulting those who disagree aren't doing your side of the debate any favors. >>
you are a stupid person. Sorry. Maybe not your fault. Perhaps you are 15 years old. That would explain everything. If this is the case I am truly sorry ....
perhaps instead of insulting me or yelling you could calmly state your position, or what it is you are actually trying to argue for? Between all your insults and yelling I can't for the life of me figure out what you're trying to say. You started off by saying that the reason that these overpriced tickets were dropped was because 'everyone' cuts their 'entertainment' spending in a time of economic crisis. Then you went on and said they were overpriced.
perhaps instead of insulting me or yelling you could calmly state your position, or what it is you are actually trying to argue for? Between all your insults and yelling I can't for the life of me figure out what you're trying to say. You started off by saying that the reason that these overpriced tickets were dropped was because 'everyone' cuts their 'entertainment' spending in a time of economic crisis. Then you went on and said they were overpriced.
What exactly are you trying to say? >>
I can not calmly state my position when laughable and quite frankly clueless garbage is what I am responding too. Sorry grasshopper Mind telling me how old you are?
<< <i> I can not calmly state my position when laughable and quite frankly clueless garbage is what I am responding too. Sorry grasshopper Mind telling me how old you are? >>
Dude, what's your problem? Did I wrong you somehow?
You make a statement that I refuted. Apparently you didn't like that so you've spent the evening berating and attempting to insult me. Look, I can't help it that you made the comment that 'everyone cuts their entertainment spending first' that was patently false and had no relevance to the conversation about the new yankee stadium ultra premium seats.
If you think the people that would buy those seats, whether they are $2500, $1000, or $500 a piece are affected by the economy, then you'd again be wrong. The people paying for those seats are not taking their family out for a day at the game. These are seats for business folks to impress clients, for guys to (try) and impress a date, etc. etc. Dads aren't taking the wife and kids and spending thousands for a day at the park. If they are, they're not caring if those seats are $500 a piece or a grand.
It's obvious you don't wish to have a discussion, you'd rather taunt and yell and insult those who disagree with you. Enjoy that. I'm done with this discussion.
Now let me guess, this is where you insult my intelligence again, or call me 'dumb' and 'naive', or assume I'm '15 years old? Cue the insults in 3...2...1...
I can't fathom how much in outer space people are. I mean way out there. By Orions Belt. Perhaps hanging out in another galaxy. Andromeda anyone?
I am carrying on about New York Yankee ticket prices being absurd as in the spirit of this thread originally. Any rational person knows this. Im am done fighting with dopes who are carrying a torch for a benign and mindless point that they feel is what this thread is all about.
If you think the people that would buy those seats, whether they are $2500, $1000, or $500 a piece are affected by the economy, then you'd again be wrong. The people paying for those seats are not taking their family out for a day at the game. These are seats for business folks to impress clients, for guys to (try) and impress a date, etc. etc. Dads aren't taking the wife and kids and spending thousands for a day at the park. If they are, they're not caring if those seats are $500 a piece or a grand. >>
One more taunt for the biggest dummy to show up here.
1. People ARE NOT buying these seats dummy. 2. Business "folks" ARE NOT buying these seats dummy. 3. Ajetsfan is a dummy! Unreal .......
Dan no one was saying that the Yanks prices were not high.
That goes without saying.
My opinion regarding the weather being a factor was simply that in July when the weather is better and if those seats were still empty then we should discuss this as an issue.
My point (which you seemed to have missed) was that those persons who could afford 2,600.00 seats would not buy them when the weather was crappy.
Would they buy them in July when the weather was better? And the Yanks playing 600 ball?
I guess we will never know now.
In closing EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE felt the Yanks had over priced those seats.
Jeff85fan made some compelling points, too bad Dan did not get them.
The fact of the matter is the Yanks did over price the tickets in those premium sections.
The fact of the matter is they still are.
The fact of the matter is that the Yanks have been selling such seats for a premium for a long time now.
The fact of the matter is he said entertainment dollars are the first to get cut when evidence could suggest that it is not so. What is fact is the overpriced Yankee tix were the first to be cut but NOT entertainment dollars in general. This is what Dan missed and Jeff was simply trying to say.
Boo, your points were well taken as well.
The only argument is what constitutes a long time.
What some here do not realize is that other people have opinions too.
<< <i>The fact of the matter is he said entertainment dollars are the first to get cut when evidence could suggest that it is not so. >>
The only thing "Jeff" pointed out was box office receipts have increased from this time last year. While this is technically true, it represents only a small fraction of the entertainment segment. To make a blanket statement like that is misleading. Can anyone name what was released at this time last year?
Historically, when the economy goes down, people are less likely to spend their disposable income. Normally, the first thing to get cut back is entertainment. This includes, but not limited to, restaurants, vacations, sports, etc.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I can't post the link, since CU says market watch is a naughty word.
<< <i>GDP falls 6.1% on record drop in investment
By Rex Nutting Last update: 8:30 a.m. EDT April 29, 2009Comments: 41 WASHINGTON (Market Watch) - The U.S. economy contracted violently again in the first quarter of the year as business investment declined at a record rate, the Commerce Department reported Wednesday. Real gross domestic product fell at a 6.1% annualized rate in the first quarter, nearly matching the 6.3% decline in the fourth quarter of 2008. The two-quarter contraction is the worst in more than 60 years. The big story for the first quarter was in the business sector, where firms halted new investments, and shed workers and inventories at a dizzying pace to bring down production and stockpiles to match the lower demand from U.S. and foreign markets. >>
But since YTD movie ticket sales went up, everything relating to entertainment is going to be just fine...
Some people are so short sighted that they lose focus on the big picture.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
stown, you are taking what I said out of context. I never said the entire entertainment industry was 'fine'. The only blanket statement made here was 'the first dollars everyone cuts is entertainment dollars' to which I pointed out box office revenues, year over year, are up, directly conflicting this statement. Secondly, why you choose to show box office receipts for the entire year of 2008, including movies that were released after this point, is beyond me. Apples and oranges? It doesn't matter which films have been released. Comparing year to date numbers in 2008 and 2009, 2009 represents higher receipts which directly challenges the notion that 'everyone' cuts their entertainment dollars in a time of a bad economy. No, the first thing people stop doing is making big purchases like cars and homes, or hasn't anyone been paying attention to GM shuttering Pontiac, needing billions in federal aid, or even a company like Toyota suffering a huge downturn in sales. I never said that because box office revenues were up from 2008 that 'everything' related to entertainment was going to be fine. When the economy goes down, people are more likely to spend it on entertainment, entertainment that gives them an escape from the crap news they hear at every turn about how bad the economy is.
I never argued the yankee ticket prices were fair, or that they weren't overpriced, I simply was countering the point that 'everyone' cuts entertainment dollars 'first' - this simply is not the case.
I don't understand the jumps in logic people continue to make in regards to my comments.
<< <i>stown, you are taking what I said out of context. I never said the entire entertainment industry was 'fine'. The only blanket statement made here was 'the first dollars everyone cuts is entertainment dollars' to which I pointed out box office revenues, year over year, are up, directly conflicting this statement. >>
You're wrong. Previous year over year, box office revenues are DOWN. The only thing that's up is this quarter compared to last quarter. And you are the one making blanket statements using your box office receipt as "hard evidence" that the entertainment industry, as a whole, is up. At least that's the way I view your posts since you continue to make that as your only arguement over and over and over.
<< <i>Secondly, why you choose to show box office receipts for the entire year of 2008, including movies that were released after this point, is beyond me. Apples and oranges? It doesn't matter which films have been released. Comparing year to date numbers in 2008 and 2009, 2009 represents higher receipts which directly challenges the notion that 'everyone' cuts their entertainment dollars in a time of a bad economy. >>
Wrong again. You are taking a very simplistic idea and attempting to present it as fact. There were crappy movies released this time last year. Better ones were released at the end of last year, which carried over AND better movies have come out YTD. Comparing receipts to bad movies vs good movies is comparing apples to oranges. And again, you continue to use this only arguement as empirical evidence, which isn't the case.
<< <i>No, the first thing people stop doing is making big purchases like cars and homes, or hasn't anyone been paying attention to GM shuttering Pontiac, needing billions in federal aid, or even a company like Toyota suffering a huge downturn in sales. I never said that because box office revenues were up from 2008 that 'everything' related to entertainment was going to be fine. When the economy goes down, people are more likely to spend it on entertainment, entertainment that gives them an escape from the crap news they hear at every turn about how bad the economy is. >>
AGAIN, historically, people hold back their disposable income during an economic crisis and the first thing to go is entertainment. You can keep reguritating quotes from Hollywood dirt rags saying "gives them an escape" but it isn't true.
<< <i>I never argued the yankee ticket prices were fair, or that they weren't overpriced, I simply was countering the point that 'everyone' cuts entertainment dollars 'first' - this simply is not the case. >>
And I'm simply showing that you're concept is flawed.
<< <i>I don't understand the jumps in logic people continue to make in regards to my comments. >>
Because you act just like a former alias that's been bammed many times from here. The more you post, the more your similar writing styles appear to be one in the same.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
The Yanks were overpriced and the dollars that normally would have flowed to them for those seats were cut.
As for entertainment dollars in general, a case could be made that in times of distress people do in fact spend what little money they have entertaining themselves.
I'm not sure where this topic diverged so violently from the original post, but in summation, I just want to say I wasn't trying to say the entire entertainment industry was fine, I was simply refuting the claim that entertainment budgets aren't the first ones cut in times of economic crisis. Comparing and contrasting the 'quality' of movies from 2008 to this year are largely irrelevant, and has no bearing on the discussion. As far as your claim that its only up over the previous quarter, that, too is incorrect. Revenues for 2009 are up 68% over the same period last year (pulled from an article found link in this article.
Look, I'm not trying to get in a fight over what was said. It's widely agreed that the tickets at yankee stadium were wildly overpriced. They overshot what they thought they could get for them, they've pulled them back (although I don't know if $1000 for the best seats in the house are still a wise pricepoint), and everyone is in agreement that adjustments needed to be made. I think you will still have empty seats, even if they drop them $500 a shot.
<< <i>I'm not sure where this topic diverged so violently from the original post, but in summation, I just want to say I wasn't trying to say the entire entertainment industry was fine, I was simply refuting the claim that entertainment budgets aren't the first ones cut in times of economic crisis. >>
Maybe I wasn't clear the other two times, so let me try this again. Historically, entertainment budgets are the first to be pulled back during bad economic times. Historically, people stay in more, don't spend as much money, and purchase items out of necessity rather than for entertainment.
<< <i>Comparing and contrasting the 'quality' of movies from 2008 to this year are largely irrelevant, and has no bearing on the discussion. >>
You're wrong. Just because your theory was proven to have numerous holes in it doesn't make it irrelevant. Again, if you can't comprehend why, that's okay. However, to completely ignore it shows what little you really know. For example, let's look at the two highest grossing movies that were released up to this point last year.
Dr. Seuss' Horton Hears a Who! ($154.444) and 10,000 B.C. ($94.771)
Compare those two with this year's flicks: Watchmen, Fast & Furious, Mall Cop, and Monsters v Aliens.
Now do you really need to think why this year's YTD is better than last year's YTD? Seriously, do you?
<< <i>As far as your claim that its only up over the previous quarter, that, too is incorrect. Revenues for 2009 are up 68% over the same period last year (pulled from an article found link in this article. >>
What? My "claim" is 100% absolute fact and your attempted spin makes no sense. Nice try and better luck next time.
<< <i>Look, I'm not trying to get in a fight over what was said. It's widely agreed that the tickets at yankee stadium were wildly overpriced. They overshot what they thought they could get for them, they've pulled them back (although I don't know if $1000 for the best seats in the house are still a wise pricepoint), and everyone is in agreement that adjustments needed to be made. I think you will still have empty seats, even if they drop them $500 a shot. >>
No one is disputing the fact that the Yanks over estimated the market. You are the one who, for whatever reason, declared movie receipts were an indication that entertainment spending is up and will continue to increase during economic down times.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
You are the one who, for whatever reason, declared movie receipts were an indication that entertainment spending is up and will continue to increase during economic down times.
Barry that is NOT what he said. Or at least it is NOT how I read it.
He simply stated that entertainment dollars are NOT the first things to go during tuff economic times.
IMO and it is only my opinion, is that in many cases people will still spend money to entertain themselves so they can get away from bumming about the economy. I am one of those people.
Comments
There is one fatal flaw with your reasoning that i see. The seats are already produced, and are being paid for. That would make them a fixed cost, not a variable cost. The supply demand curve would only come into play in this situation if they (the Yankees) were on the opposite end of the spectrum and were deciding wether or not to shut down the stadium because it costs more to have it open than it creates in profit.
You must treat these seats like it is rent, or start up machinery costs, not the actual product being produced.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
Ahh the things they don't teach in economics school.
But Boo is an intelligent guy - he'll get it sooner or later.
this as a problem then.
Steve
<< <i>The front office started going downhill when the Yanks got rid of George Costanza. >>
Yes, and they replaced him with Moe Howard, Curly Howard, and Larry Fine.
Arguing over ticket prices, player’s salaries, revenues, costs of revenue means jack s&i%.
If you are in a positive cash flow position, then you are making money. If you are not, then you have an awful business model. Let it go. I’m a Sox fan, but if the Yankees believe they can afford to continue to keep the seats selling at the current price and return positive cash flow, who cares.
People who can't afford 2,600.00 for a seat.
These are the people that care.
Steve
(1) first (and most importantly) will be the ire raised by those who already bought them at the previous price. Unless you're willing to refund that money to those who previously paid, you're going to end up with a lot of ill-will, which would offset any gain in revenues by selling the other seats, or
(2) you run into raising the opinion that there's something wrong, that the yankees are not invincible, that they were wrong.
Neither of these options are more appealing than having some seats empty, which is exactly why the yankees are standing by with their current business plan. In the offseason you may see some adjusting of pricing, but there's little chance the yankees make any rash decisions based around a handful of games.
<< <i>It is APRIL fellows! It was 45 degrees outside. If the same seats are empty in JULY then lets discuss
this as a problem then.
Steve >>
Temps are not a factor. Temps do not encourage fans to sit in every area of the ballpark except behind homeplate and the prime dugout seats down the 1st and 3rd baselines. If weather was a factor there would be swaths of empty seats all over the place. Not the case.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
IMO they are still9 WAAAAAY over priced.
The best seats in Philly for the champs go for 70 bucks I hear.
Please no more talk about "cost curves" and other foolishness. The Yankees very STUPIDLY outrageously overpriced tickets and ignored the horrible economy thinking the new ballpark would be a buffer.
Thank You
The Yankees have adjusted prices on more than 40 percent of the front-row seats at the new Yankee Stadium and will offer additional free seats to some ticket holders, it was announced on Tuesday.
The adjustments to the club's pricing policy were outlined in a statement authorized by Yankees managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner, and it came as a response to the a five-game homestand that saw a number of premium seats unoccupied at the $1.5 billion ballpark.
"A few weeks ago, I indicated that in light of the economy, we would review the pricing of a small number of our premium locations at Yankee Stadium, specifically, our Suite Seats," Steinbrenner said. "I mentioned a small number of locations because in excess of 3.4 million seats, including 37,000 full-season equivalents as well as approximately 85 percent of all our premium locations have already been sold.
"Yet, there are a few hundred Suite Seats in our premium locations that have not been sold on a full-season basis. As a result, and for many of our fans who have already purchased full-season Suite Seats in such premium locations, the Yankees are announcing today a program that adjusts certain prices and benefits affecting such Suite Seats."
For the rest of the 2009 regular season, the following price and benefit adjustments are being adopted for Legends Suite and Delta Sky 360 Suite licensees at the new Yankee Stadium, as outlined by the club:
• The full-season Legends Suite and Ticket Licenses in the first row in Sections 15A, 15B, 24B and 25 will be reduced from $2,500 to $1,250 per regular-season game. All fans who have purchased such full-season Suite and ticket licenses will receive, at their choice, a refund or a credit.
• The full-season Legends Suite and ticket licenses in the first row in Sections 11, 12, 13, 27B, 28 and 29 will be reduced from $1,000 to $650 per regular-season game. All fans who have purchased such full-season Suite and ticket licenses will receive, at their choice, a refund or a credit.
• All fans who purchased full-season $2,500 Legends Suite and ticket licenses in the first row, in Sections 16-24A, will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the first row in Sections 16-24A for each of the remaining regular-season games during the 2009 regular season.
• All fans who purchased full-season $1,250 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $1,250 Legends Suite price category for 24 games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• All fans who purchased full-season $850 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $850 Legends Suite price category for eight games and in the $500 Legends Suite price category for four games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• All fans who purchased full-season $600 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $500 Legends Suite price category for 10 games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• All fans who purchased full-season $500 Legends Suite and ticket licenses will receive an equal number of complimentary Legends Suite Seats in the $500 Legends Suite price category for eight games during the 2009 regular season, as selected by the Yankees.
• Future 2009 regular season sales of full-season $1,250, $850, $600 and $500 Legends Suite and ticket licenses, will receive comparable (dependent upon the price of the Legends Suite and ticket license) benefits during the 2009 regular season, subject to availability.
• The Delta SKY 360 Suite and Ticket Licenses in the first row in Sections 218A-222 will be reduced from $750 to $550 for each regular-season game. All fans who have purchased such full-season Suite and ticket licenses will receive, at their choice, a refund or a credit.
In addition, for 2009, so as to encourage fans to purchase full-season ticket plans in the Field Level sections 115-125, the Yankees are also adopting a program affecting a few hundred seats. And, for our fans who have already purchased, on a full-season basis such Field Level seating priced at $325 Sections 115-125, the following program is being adopted effective immediately:
• Going forward all fans when purchasing, on a full season basis, three full regular-season ticket plans priced at $325 per regular-season game in Sections 115-125 will receive a fourth full-regular season ticket at no additional cost.
All fans who have purchased full season plans priced at $325 per regular-season game will receive complimentary regular season tickets within Sections 115-125 for remaining regular-season games during the 2009 regular season as follows:
• If you purchased two or three full-season tickets you will receive two tickets for every other regular-season game, commencing with either the Thursday evening game on April 30 or the Friday evening game on May 1 and alternating for the remainder of the season.
• If you purchased four or five full-season tickets you will receive two tickets for every regular-season game during the balance of the 2009 regular season, commencing with the Thursday evening game on April 30, 2009.
• If you purchased six or seven full-season tickets you will receive three tickets for every regular-season game during the balance of the 2009 regular season, commencing with the Thursday evening game on April 30, 2009.
• If you purchased eight full-season tickets, you will receive four tickets for every regular-season game during the balance of the 2009 regular season, commencing with the Thursday evening game on April 30.
Yankee Stadium officially opened to a sellout crowd of 48,271 on April 16 against the Cleveland Indians, and hosted five games on the inaugural homestand -- an April 20 game against the Oakland Athletics was rained out and rescheduled for July 23.
In all, Yankee Stadium has had 267,014 sold seats for the five games. The official capacity is listed at 52,325 in the club's media guide, but as they noted on April 16, more than 2,000 tickets were given away as complimentary seats.
"I think the Yankees are taking a proactive approach in understanding what's going on in our country and the world," Yankees manager Joe Girardi said. "I think they're reaching out to people. I think it's a good thing.
"The thing about that is, you don't know how many of those people are inside eating. I actually went and saw the dining room -- it was pretty nice and there's TVs all over. You do see empty seats, but you don't know how many people come and go. To me, I never really thought much of it."
Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter said that he noticed the empty seats during the homestand, mostly because it was a topic of discussion among media members.
"You noticed it, because everybody was talking about it," Jeter said. "You couldn't help but to look. But I'm sure if they did [adjust prices], they did it for a good reason.
"I don't know how many people are in this seat or that seat, but one of the differences between the new stadium and the old stadium is, when you're at the concessions, you can still the game. Even though people may not necessarily be in their seats, they're still at the game."
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Boo-
There is one fatal flaw with your reasoning that i see. The seats are already produced, and are being paid for. That would make them a fixed cost, not a variable cost. The supply demand curve would only come into play in this situation if they (the Yankees) were on the opposite end of the spectrum and were deciding wether or not to shut down the stadium because it costs more to have it open than it creates in profit.
You must treat these seats like it is rent, or start up machinery costs, not the actual product being produced. >>
Hi Fische,
I think the key concept here is the elasticity of demand-- whether the cost is fixed or variable doesn't end up being very important. Assuming you (i.e., 'the firm') has some price-setting power in the market for your commodity, you generally want to set the price at the level at which a 1% increase in the price will result in a 1% decrease in demand. If a 1% increase in price results in lower than 1% decrease in demand then your price is too low-- if >1 then it's too high.
Will a 1% increase in the price of seats behind home plate in Yankee stadium result in a greater than (or less than) 1% decrease in demand for those seats? I really don't know. It seems possible, but it also seems possible that it isn't.
Economic pricing models can, I think, be helpful in trying to 'ballpark' (pardon the terrible pun) the optimal price, but of course there's more to it than that, and no matter how hard one tries it's nearly impossible to be sure you have it right (since you never really know what the demand curve for your product looks like). What I was trying to get across is the fact-- and it is a fact-- that there are empty seats doesn't mean you've overpriced your product. There are other factors which go into pricing other than maximizing consumption IF you have market power. For instance, what if Bill Gates said 'I want to rent Yankee stadium for all home games this year, and I'll pay $200 million per game to have the stadium all to myself?' Clearly there's a spot at which higher prices are more beneficial than higher consumption. I thought that was an interesting observation.
Edit to add: The picture would be entirely different under the rules of perfect competition. But the fact that the Yankees have some monopoly power is what gives them the ability to SET the price, as opposed to TAKE the price, and that's why maximum consumption isn't necessarily the goal.
These are ENTERTAINMENT dollars. The very first dollars that EVERYONE cuts in times like this. The New York Yankees DO NOT have the ability to "set the price" and was proved by todays HUGE 50% slash (not enough IMO) of these outrageously priced seats AND forced give back to the select few who could afford the stupid pricing "set" by the Yankees.
So, the Yankees just barfed out the first step that will INDEED lead to "TAKING" what they can get.
Boopotts, please do us all a favor and stop talking in economic "Chinese" like the Yankees are selling something EVERYBODY needs such as food, water, or friggen gasoline.
Thank you.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Temps were a factor, according to the Yankees, who claimed those people were in the restaurants instead of their seats.
And their were swaths of empty seats all over the place. Only these were shown after every pitch.
Steve
edit to add: I am not saying that all those 2,600.00 dollar seats were sold.
I was simply saying that it being early(cold) we could not prove 100% where those people were.
<< <i> Temps were a factor, according to the Yankees, who claimed those people were in the restaurants instead of their seats.
And their were swaths of empty seats all over the place. Only these were shown after every pitch.
Steve
edit to add: I am not saying that all those 2,600.00 dollar seats were sold.
I was simply saying that it being early(cold) we could not prove 100% where those people were. >>
ehhh.... I don't buy it Steve.
The Yanks just today showed their true cards and SLASHED pricing (and NOT enough) on these prime time seats.
If the Yankees TRULY thought temperatures at game time were a serious factor prices would not have been slashed before the 2nd home stand.
If in fact the Yankees stated that temps were a factor it was merely a smokescreen as they scrambled behind the scenes to react to the blasphemy which are their ticket prices.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Boopotts is incredibly lost. He is obviously trying to outsmart himself with a fishing line tangle of way out in right field (somewhere) off base economic logic that in no way what-so-ever pertains to the sale of entertainment dollars in a abysmal economy.
These are ENTERTAINMENT dollars. The very first dollars that EVERYONE shuts down in times like this. The New York Yankees DO NOT have the ability to "set the price" and was proved by todays HUGE 50% slash (not enough IMO) of these outrageously priced seats AND forced give back to the select few who could afford the stupid pricing "set" by the Yankees.
So, the Yankees just barfed out the first step that will INDEED lead to "TAKING" what they can get.
Boopotts, please do us all a favor and stop talking in economic "Chinese" like the Yankees are selling something EVERYBODY needs such as food, water, or friggen gasoline.
Thank you. >>
You don't get bonus points for using the caps lock button on your key words.
Since I've long since passed the stage where I'm willing to discuss issues with someone who isn't capable of listening I won't bother with a post that carefully explains why you're 100% wrong on all the above points. Suffice it to say, then, that that Yankees do, in fact, have market power, but this is not the same as saying they can charge whatever they want and still sell as many units as they desire. If that were true, then natural monopolies like utility companies could charge $500 per kilowatt hour and not see a decline in demand. Even a monopoly has a downward sloping demand curve.
The question is whether you can have empty seats and still be profit maximizing. The answer to that is an unequivocal 'yes', and if you don't understand why this is so you'd be doing yourself a considerable favor by taking the time to learn why this is so. Does that mean the Yankees are profit maximizing? No. Does it mean their seats aren't overpriced? No. Does it mean that the Yankees didn't make a serious mistake in their pricing strategy? No. What it does mean-- and I know you can't, or won't, understand this, but just for the hell of it I'll repeat it anyway-- is that nobody here has enough information to determine whether they made a mistake or not.
<< <i>
These are ENTERTAINMENT dollars. The very first dollars that EVERYONE shuts down in times like this.
>>
Not that it matters, but the very first dollars 'everyone' shuts down is not entertainment. Actually, in times of economic crisis, entertainment dollars actually rise. Look at movie theater/box office revenues, higher this year than last. People use entertainment to escape the rigors of poor economies, much the same way that alcohol consumption goes up in times of bad economies.
<< <i>The New York Yankees DO NOT have the ability to "set the price" and was proved by todays HUGE 50% slash (not enough IMO) of these outrageously priced seats AND forced give back to the select few who could afford the stupid pricing "set" by the Yankees. >>
They (and every pro sports team) has the ability to set the price. The yankees set the bar exceptionally high, had a few takers, now have moved the bar lower. They are still generating a ton of cash, and even at the 'reduced' prices are far above every other MLB team - thereby 'setting the price'.
Entertainment dollars are not the 'first' cost that 'everyone' cuts - far from it. Please don't confuse today's actions by the yankees as anything more than them wanting to bring in even more revenue to an already cash flush franchise.
The question IS NOT about "profit maximizing"
It NEVER HAS BEEN. Who gives a rats rear end about silliness such as "profit maximizing" besides yourself?
I can care less if you don't want to carry on with me about a subject that you are incredibly LOST on.
Here is a lesson for you.
1. The Yankees outrageously overprice tickets and is highlighted by an embarrassing amount of empty prime real estate during 1st home stand.
2. The idea is brought to attention by thread starter.
3. You carry on about laughable economic bullcrap regarding "cost curves" and "profit maximizing"
4. I respond in what you consider a sub standard or uneducated angle.
5. Yankees slash prices in April after the first homestand and not nearly enough as these tickets are STILL over priced.
6. You carry on with nonsense anyway.
Can somebody, anybody, tell me the last time the New York Yankees slashed prime seating prices by 50%? EVER?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
Not that it matters, but the very first dollars 'everyone' shuts down is not entertainment. Actually, in times of economic crisis, entertainment dollars actually rise. Look at movie theater/box office revenues, higher this year than last. People use entertainment to escape the rigors of poor economies, much the same way that alcohol consumption goes up in times of bad economies.
>>
The movies?
Do you care to do the math on how many movies with all the trimmings you can take your ENTIRE family to see on the price of ONE seat at ONE game without any trimmings in prime real estate in Yankee Stadium?
Holy crap! Please, Somebody tell me that I am out of whack here!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
Entertainment dollars are not the 'first' cost that 'everyone' cuts - far from it. Please don't confuse today's actions by the yankees as anything more than them wanting to bring in even more revenue to an already cash flush franchise. >>
You are kidding right? Are you that naive?
You tell me the last time the New York Yankees cut dugout seats by 50% FIFTY PERCENT. (And its not enough)
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>
Not that it matters, but the very first dollars 'everyone' shuts down is not entertainment. Actually, in times of economic crisis, entertainment dollars actually rise. Look at movie theater/box office revenues, higher this year than last. People use entertainment to escape the rigors of poor economies, much the same way that alcohol consumption goes up in times of bad economies.
>>
The movies?
Do you care to do the math on how many movies with all the trimmings you can take your ENTIRE family to see on the price of ONE seat at ONE game without any trimmings in prime real estate in Yankee Stadium?
Holy crap! Please, Somebody tell me that I am out of whack here! >>
Boo is going to school for economics and I wish him well in that endeavor - however his posts here illustrate the old cliche that a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.
<< <i>You just got done saying that the first dollars 'everyone' cuts out are 'entertainment' dollars. The movies are entertainment...how does my comment not apply to yours? >>
Gee let me guess, and thank you for serving this one up on the ol silver platter.......
What should I do? Spend $10,000 on four easily available dugout seats for ONE GOD DAMN GAME at Yankee Stadium MINUS the food and parking or take my family to 100 movies, blow money on all kinds of crap candy, popcorn, etc.
Newsflash for you....... your arguement is bunk.
Are you really that DUMB?
Entertainment dollars are CUT I said. Not exiled. Please do not post any more laughable garbage like this huh? My goodness ....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>You just got done saying that the first dollars 'everyone' cuts out are 'entertainment' dollars. The movies are entertainment...how does my comment not apply to yours? >>
Gee let me guess, and thank you for serving this one up on the ol silver platter.......
What should I do? Spend $10,000 on four easily available dugout seats for ONE GOD DAMN GAME at Yankee Stadium MINUS the food and parking or take my family to 100 movies, blow money on all kinds of crap candy, popcorn, etc.
Newsflash for you....... your arguement is bunk.
Are you really that DUMB?
Entertainment dollars are CUT I said. Not exiled. Please do not post any more laughable garbage like this huh? My goodness .... >>
There's no argument here, there's simply countering your point of contention that the first dollars anyone cuts are entertainment dollars. I offered you hard evidence pointing to the contrary. Why you insist on mocking people with a countering opinion, calling them 'dumb' and 'naive' simply because they disagree with you is absurd.
The yankees simply overshot what they felt people would pay for premium seating. The seats still cost a ton. Premium seats at a premium venue for a premium-priced franchise has been the norm for a long time. Why you are getting so worked up over this topic, calling me 'dumb' and swearing is peculiar.
Your initial point that 'entertainment' dollars are what 'everyone' cuts first is the only 'bunk' statement in this whole thread.
<< <i> There's no argument here, there's simply countering your point of contention that the first dollars anyone cuts are entertainment dollars. I offered you hard evidence pointing to the contrary. Why you insist on mocking people with a countering opinion, calling them 'dumb' and 'naive' simply because they disagree with you is absurd.
The yankees simply overshot what they felt people would pay for premium seating. The seats still cost a ton. Premium seats at a premium venue for a premium-priced franchise has been the norm for a long time. Why you are getting so worked up over this topic, calling me 'dumb' and swearing is peculiar.
Your initial point that 'entertainment' dollars are what 'everyone' cuts first is the only 'bunk' statement in this whole thread. >>
hey Phillies fans! How are those $70 dugout seats going?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
You yelling through the use of caps and insulting those who disagree aren't doing your side of the debate any favors.
<< <i>
The yankees simply overshot what they felt people would pay for premium seating. The seats still cost a ton. Premium seats at a premium venue for a premium-priced franchise has been the norm for a long time.
>>
Huh, I missed this jewel. Must comment.
Just what "norm" are you talking about ?????
I refuse to believe that the majority around here are this #%!@%#! clueless. Yeahhhh man .... the norm for a long time man ...
Am I the one who has to point out to this stooge that todays "norm" has not been seen for generations?
WOW ...... just WOW
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>softparade, insulting those who disagree with you and who shoot holes in your arguments just makes you out to be a sore loser. Look, you made the point about people cutting their entertainment budgets first, you said 'everyone' does it. I simply showed you that wasn't the case and gave you box office revenues as proof that entertainment budgets are not being cut back. The yankees either overestimated the number of people who would pay $2600 a ticket, or this was all part of a master plan to sell them at $1000 and wanted to show what a 'value' they were by initially pricing them at more than double. Anyone spending $1000 a ticket isn't affected by the economy. They are so wealthy that they don't care.
You yelling through the use of caps and insulting those who disagree aren't doing your side of the debate any favors. >>
you are a stupid person. Sorry. Maybe not your fault.
Perhaps you are 15 years old. That would explain everything. If this is the case I am truly sorry ....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
perhaps instead of insulting me or yelling you could calmly state your position, or what it is you are actually trying to argue for? Between all your insults and yelling I can't for the life of me figure out what you're trying to say. You started off by saying that the reason that these overpriced tickets were dropped was because 'everyone' cuts their 'entertainment' spending in a time of economic crisis. Then you went on and said they were overpriced.
What exactly are you trying to say?
<< <i>softparade-
perhaps instead of insulting me or yelling you could calmly state your position, or what it is you are actually trying to argue for? Between all your insults and yelling I can't for the life of me figure out what you're trying to say. You started off by saying that the reason that these overpriced tickets were dropped was because 'everyone' cuts their 'entertainment' spending in a time of economic crisis. Then you went on and said they were overpriced.
What exactly are you trying to say? >>
I can not calmly state my position when laughable and quite frankly clueless garbage is what I am responding too.
Sorry grasshopper
Mind telling me how old you are?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
I can not calmly state my position when laughable and quite frankly clueless garbage is what I am responding too.
Sorry grasshopper
Mind telling me how old you are? >>
Dude, what's your problem? Did I wrong you somehow?
You make a statement that I refuted. Apparently you didn't like that so you've spent the evening berating and attempting to insult me. Look, I can't help it that you made the comment that 'everyone cuts their entertainment spending first' that was patently false and had no relevance to the conversation about the new yankee stadium ultra premium seats.
If you think the people that would buy those seats, whether they are $2500, $1000, or $500 a piece are affected by the economy, then you'd again be wrong. The people paying for those seats are not taking their family out for a day at the game. These are seats for business folks to impress clients, for guys to (try) and impress a date, etc. etc. Dads aren't taking the wife and kids and spending thousands for a day at the park. If they are, they're not caring if those seats are $500 a piece or a grand.
It's obvious you don't wish to have a discussion, you'd rather taunt and yell and insult those who disagree with you. Enjoy that. I'm done with this discussion.
Now let me guess, this is where you insult my intelligence again, or call me 'dumb' and 'naive', or assume I'm '15 years old? Cue the insults in 3...2...1...
I can't fathom how much in outer space people are. I mean way out there. By Orions Belt. Perhaps hanging out in another galaxy. Andromeda anyone?
I am carrying on about New York Yankee ticket prices being absurd as in the spirit of this thread originally. Any rational person knows this. Im am done fighting with dopes who are carrying a torch for a benign and mindless point that they feel is what this thread is all about.
See y'all
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> .
If you think the people that would buy those seats, whether they are $2500, $1000, or $500 a piece are affected by the economy, then you'd again be wrong. The people paying for those seats are not taking their family out for a day at the game. These are seats for business folks to impress clients, for guys to (try) and impress a date, etc. etc. Dads aren't taking the wife and kids and spending thousands for a day at the park. If they are, they're not caring if those seats are $500 a piece or a grand.
>>
One more taunt for the biggest dummy to show up here.
1. People ARE NOT buying these seats dummy.
2. Business "folks" ARE NOT buying these seats dummy.
3. Ajetsfan is a dummy!
Unreal .......
bye bye!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
That goes without saying.
My opinion regarding the weather being a factor was simply that in July when the weather
is better and if those seats were still empty then we should discuss this as an issue.
My point (which you seemed to have missed) was that those persons who could afford 2,600.00 seats
would not buy them when the weather was crappy.
Would they buy them in July when the weather was better? And the Yanks playing 600 ball?
I guess we will never know now.
In closing EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE felt the Yanks had over priced those seats.
Steve
Boo I agree in principle, however, I can say they made a mistake with me.
I wouldn't give them a red cent now.
The only way I'll go to a Yankee game is if someone gives me the tix.
I was a season ticket holder from 1996 through 2000.
Steve
The fact of the matter is the Yanks did over price the tickets in those premium sections.
The fact of the matter is they still are.
The fact of the matter is that the Yanks have been selling such seats for a premium for a long time now.
The fact of the matter is he said entertainment dollars are the first to get cut when evidence could suggest
that it is not so. What is fact is the overpriced Yankee tix were the first to be cut but NOT entertainment dollars
in general. This is what Dan missed and Jeff was simply trying to say.
Boo, your points were well taken as well.
The only argument is what constitutes a long time.
What some here do not realize is that other people have opinions too.
<< <i>The fact of the matter is he said entertainment dollars are the first to get cut when evidence could suggest
that it is not so. >>
The only thing "Jeff" pointed out was box office receipts have increased from this time last year. While this is technically true, it represents only a small fraction of the entertainment segment. To make a blanket statement like that is misleading. Can anyone name what was released at this time last year?
2008 releases
Now compare to this year's releases.
Don't compare apples to oranges...
Historically, when the economy goes down, people are less likely to spend their disposable income. Normally, the first thing to get cut back is entertainment. This includes, but not limited to, restaurants, vacations, sports, etc.
<< <i>GDP falls 6.1% on record drop in investment
By Rex Nutting
Last update: 8:30 a.m. EDT April 29, 2009Comments: 41
WASHINGTON (Market Watch) - The U.S. economy contracted violently again in the first quarter of the year as business investment declined at a record rate, the Commerce Department reported Wednesday. Real gross domestic product fell at a 6.1% annualized rate in the first quarter, nearly matching the 6.3% decline in the fourth quarter of 2008. The two-quarter contraction is the worst in more than 60 years. The big story for the first quarter was in the business sector, where firms halted new investments, and shed workers and inventories at a dizzying pace to bring down production and stockpiles to match the lower demand from U.S. and foreign markets. >>
But since YTD movie ticket sales went up, everything relating to entertainment is going to be just fine...
Some people are so short sighted that they lose focus on the big picture.
I never argued the yankee ticket prices were fair, or that they weren't overpriced, I simply was countering the point that 'everyone' cuts entertainment dollars 'first' - this simply is not the case.
I don't understand the jumps in logic people continue to make in regards to my comments.
<< <i>stown, you are taking what I said out of context. I never said the entire entertainment industry was 'fine'. The only blanket statement made here was 'the first dollars everyone cuts is entertainment dollars' to which I pointed out box office revenues, year over year, are up, directly conflicting this statement. >>
You're wrong. Previous year over year, box office revenues are DOWN. The only thing that's up is this quarter compared to last quarter. And you are the one making blanket statements using your box office receipt as "hard evidence" that the entertainment industry, as a whole, is up. At least that's the way I view your posts since you continue to make that as your only arguement over and over and over.
<< <i>Secondly, why you choose to show box office receipts for the entire year of 2008, including movies that were released after this point, is beyond me. Apples and oranges? It doesn't matter which films have been released. Comparing year to date numbers in 2008 and 2009, 2009 represents higher receipts which directly challenges the notion that 'everyone' cuts their entertainment dollars in a time of a bad economy. >>
Wrong again. You are taking a very simplistic idea and attempting to present it as fact. There were crappy movies released this time last year. Better ones were released at the end of last year, which carried over AND better movies have come out YTD. Comparing receipts to bad movies vs good movies is comparing apples to oranges. And again, you continue to use this only arguement as empirical evidence, which isn't the case.
<< <i>No, the first thing people stop doing is making big purchases like cars and homes, or hasn't anyone been paying attention to GM shuttering Pontiac, needing billions in federal aid, or even a company like Toyota suffering a huge downturn in sales. I never said that because box office revenues were up from 2008 that 'everything' related to entertainment was going to be fine. When the economy goes down, people are more likely to spend it on entertainment, entertainment that gives them an escape from the crap news they hear at every turn about how bad the economy is. >>
AGAIN, historically, people hold back their disposable income during an economic crisis and the first thing to go is entertainment. You can keep reguritating quotes from Hollywood dirt rags saying "gives them an escape" but it isn't true.
<< <i>I never argued the yankee ticket prices were fair, or that they weren't overpriced, I simply was countering the point that 'everyone' cuts entertainment dollars 'first' - this simply is not the case. >>
And I'm simply showing that you're concept is flawed.
<< <i>I don't understand the jumps in logic people continue to make in regards to my comments. >>
Because you act just like a former alias that's been bammed many times from here. The more you post, the more your similar writing styles appear to be one in the same.
The Yanks were overpriced and the dollars that normally would have flowed
to them for those seats were cut.
As for entertainment dollars in general, a case could be made that in times of distress
people do in fact spend what little money they have entertaining themselves.
Steve
Steve
Look, I'm not trying to get in a fight over what was said. It's widely agreed that the tickets at yankee stadium were wildly overpriced. They overshot what they thought they could get for them, they've pulled them back (although I don't know if $1000 for the best seats in the house are still a wise pricepoint), and everyone is in agreement that adjustments needed to be made. I think you will still have empty seats, even if they drop them $500 a shot.
<< <i>I'm not sure where this topic diverged so violently from the original post, but in summation, I just want to say I wasn't trying to say the entire entertainment industry was fine, I was simply refuting the claim that entertainment budgets aren't the first ones cut in times of economic crisis. >>
Maybe I wasn't clear the other two times, so let me try this again. Historically, entertainment budgets are the first to be pulled back during bad economic times. Historically, people stay in more, don't spend as much money, and purchase items out of necessity rather than for entertainment.
<< <i>Comparing and contrasting the 'quality' of movies from 2008 to this year are largely irrelevant, and has no bearing on the discussion. >>
You're wrong. Just because your theory was proven to have numerous holes in it doesn't make it irrelevant. Again, if you can't comprehend why, that's okay. However, to completely ignore it shows what little you really know. For example, let's look at the two highest grossing movies that were released up to this point last year.
Dr. Seuss' Horton Hears a Who! ($154.444) and 10,000 B.C. ($94.771)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Blockbusters!!!1!!!!
Compare those two with this year's flicks: Watchmen, Fast & Furious, Mall Cop, and Monsters v Aliens.
Now do you really need to think why this year's YTD is better than last year's YTD? Seriously, do you?
<< <i>As far as your claim that its only up over the previous quarter, that, too is incorrect. Revenues for 2009 are up 68% over the same period last year (pulled from an article found link in this article. >>
What? My "claim" is 100% absolute fact and your attempted spin makes no sense. Nice try and better luck next time.
<< <i>Look, I'm not trying to get in a fight over what was said. It's widely agreed that the tickets at yankee stadium were wildly overpriced. They overshot what they thought they could get for them, they've pulled them back (although I don't know if $1000 for the best seats in the house are still a wise pricepoint), and everyone is in agreement that adjustments needed to be made. I think you will still have empty seats, even if they drop them $500 a shot. >>
No one is disputing the fact that the Yanks over estimated the market. You are the one who, for whatever reason, declared movie receipts were an indication that entertainment spending is up and will continue to increase during economic down times.
Barry that is NOT what he said. Or at least it is NOT how I read it.
He simply stated that entertainment dollars are NOT the first things to go during tuff economic times.
IMO and it is only my opinion, is that in many cases people will still spend money to entertain themselves
so they can get away from bumming about the economy. I am one of those people.
That is how I read into what he said.
Steve
Steve