Lafayette dollars are one or many coins to be careful about. Avoiding buyers in China is a stop gap, because there are accomplices in the U. S. Relying on visual flaws in the font, or in the dimensions of the slab are not much of a defense, because those kind of flaws are easy to correct. The next generation of fake slabs will likely correct the visible errors, if they haven't done so already.
Be careful out there. The fake coins and fake slabs are likely to continue to get better with each production cycle.
<< <i>If this is truly a fake, and can be demonstrated as such, PCGS should buy it at auction and then recover their money from PayPal. It would take time, but it it would be worth the effort because they could gather information about the seller and the fake itself and give negative feedback. >>
If PCGS would buy all these fakes then recover their money from Paypal, Ebay perhaps would consider banning coin sales from China if they were having to pay a few hundred thousand a month in make-goods.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
Yes, counterfeits are becoming more of a threat everyday, but the thing that baffles me is why are these collectors/investors not more informed about the current situation with fake slabs? These bidders obviously have internet so why have they not ever made a stop at the PCGS website where one can find diagnostics for stuff like this? And honestly, do these folks really believe they are purchasing the real deal when so many other consumer goods are replicated from China as well?
Some U.S. eBayer will buy this for a bargain price and then resell it on eBay. If this coin was not being sold from China, how many people would be suspicious of this coin? Not many I'd bet.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
the coin looks like a better fake than from the recent T$1 fake thread. (but those T$1 he has look like someone didn't spend a lot of time distressing them well at all)
now they are faking real coins with real certs off of other auction sites.
I guess the first place to check now would be to see if a coin with that cert number has sold on Heritage or Teletrade.
After seeing this one and the recent T$1 fake, it is easy to tell the label is fake. hunt down the recent T$1 thread.
I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins.
<< <i>I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins. >>
the T$1 auction is gone, but the pictures survive in the thread. read the commentary, then look at the picture of the label in this slab and compare with the one on Heritage (the real slabbed coin)
<< <i>I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins. >>
the T$1 auction is gone, but the pictures survive in the thread. read the commentary, then look at the picture of the label in this slab and compare with the one on Heritage (the real slabbed coin) >>
Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? If I went to a coin dealer right now, without any previous knowledge other than I trust my coin dealer and that I hear that PCGS slabs are good, how can I tell that the coin and the slab are real or fake?
Yeah, Fake. The lettering is too small on the slab. The coin looks terrible in my opinion. The relief is all wrong, the surfaces are wierd, the rim design is too far from the edge, and seriously! what happened to Washington't eye!!??
if one knows nothing, then one would get fooled easily.
if one accidentally tries to stack them with other real slabs, that might be a red flag, but one knows nothing... so perhaps one may think: "not all stack well..."
doesn't it go without saying that if one knows nothing they can be fooled? (not to be rude... just sayin')
Every time I see people patting themselves on the back for recognizing a marginal fake in a slab being sold from China, I shake my head. If it was 10% better and being sold from Houston, would you have noticed it? If it was 15% better? 20% better?
What makes you think the last slab you bought from Houston or Los Angeles or Miami wasn't that 20% better fake in a very good fake slab? Because you didn't recognize it as one? That's a heck of a dangerous false sense of security that's going to lead some people to lose some serious money if it hasn't already.
Was it not really a heart attack because the doctor didn't tell you it was?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
<< <i>Just say no to all coins originating in China, problem solved. >>
NOT TRUE. Once these coins make their way to the U.S. they will eventually enter the coin market.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins. >>
the T$1 auction is gone, but the pictures survive in the thread. read the commentary, then look at the picture of the label in this slab and compare with the one on Heritage (the real slabbed coin) >>
Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? If I went to a coin dealer right now, without any previous knowledge other than I trust my coin dealer and that I hear that PCGS slabs are good, how can I tell that the coin and the slab are real or fake? >>
Check out the seller feedback, looks fishy to me!! The same buyer on most stuff and only 33 sales, looks funny to me ! And this is the second fake pcgs slab I have seen recently.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
<< <i>I will NEVER,NEVER, EVER buy ANYTHING from CHINA, EVER!!!!! And now the fake ,copy, pcgs slab scares me and should scare pcgs and you!! >>
suit yourself. i've purchased about $10k from Chinese dealers the last year or so, and every one of them has slabbed by PCGS and NGC (aside from a cleaned one, that i kinda' figured it was). There are some high end Chinese dealers, and there are some scumbags; just like in the United States.
<< <i>I will NEVER,NEVER, EVER buy ANYTHING from CHINA, EVER!!!!! And now the fake ,copy, pcgs slab scares me and should scare pcgs and you!! >>
suit yourself. i've purchased about $10k from Chinese dealers the last year or so, and every one of them has slabbed by PCGS and NGC (aside from a cleaned one, that i kinda' figured it was). There are some high end Chinese dealers, and there are some scumbags; just like in the United States. >>
You must know your stuff better than I...
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
<< <i>I sent the US seller of the fake trade dollar a message thru eBay letting them know it was a fake and provided a link to the correct coin at Heritage.
Now I checked the listing and it shows 6***6 won this item with a Best Offer of US $8,000.00. >>
A tool to help with highly counterfeited coins in slabs. If the seller is in China; Avoid! If the seller is in the U.S. look at seller's feedback and see if he recently aquired the coin from china or has recently bought coins from China. If so; Avoid!!
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
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Comments
It's a pretty bad fake, so no, it doesn't scare me. I have seen much scarier.
-Paul
Lance.
-Paul
LINK-O to compare to FAKE-O
Link Fixed
Doesn't this say it all?
Lestrrr
The Trade dollar the same seller has for sale is also a fake.
Be careful out there. The fake coins and fake slabs are likely to continue to get better with each production cycle.
<< <i>If this is truly a fake, and can be demonstrated as such, PCGS should buy it at auction and then recover their money from PayPal. It would take time, but it it would be worth the effort because they could gather information about the seller and the fake itself and give negative feedback. >>
If PCGS would buy all these fakes then recover their money from Paypal, Ebay perhaps would consider banning coin sales from China if they were
having to pay a few hundred thousand a month in make-goods.
<< <i>Linkified
It's a pretty bad fake, so no, it doesn't scare me. I have seen much scarier.
-Paul >>
Very dangerous to those who rely on the slab rather than learning what real coins/real grades actually LOOK LIKE.
Ryan
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
now they are faking real coins with real certs off of other auction sites.
I guess the first place to check now would be to see if a coin with that cert number has sold on Heritage or Teletrade.
After seeing this one and the recent T$1 fake, it is easy to tell the label is fake. hunt down the recent T$1 thread.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins.
<< <i>I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins. >>
here is the recent trade dollar thread
the T$1 auction is gone, but the pictures survive in the thread. read the commentary, then look at the picture of the label in this slab and compare with the one on Heritage (the real slabbed coin)
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins. >>
here is the recent trade dollar thread
the T$1 auction is gone, but the pictures survive in the thread. read the commentary, then look at the picture of the label in this slab and compare with the one on Heritage (the real slabbed coin) >>
Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? If I went to a coin dealer right now, without any previous knowledge other than I trust my coin dealer and that I hear that PCGS slabs are good, how can I tell that the coin and the slab are real or fake?
if one accidentally tries to stack them with other real slabs, that might be a red flag, but one knows nothing... so perhaps one may think: "not all stack well..."
doesn't it go without saying that if one knows nothing they can be fooled? (not to be rude... just sayin')
<< <i>Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? >>
Item location: China
<< <i>
<< <i>Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? >>
Item location: China >>
Yes. But as PerryHall stated, what if this item were in the U.S.?
<< <i>Just say no to all coins originating in China, problem solved. >>
If it were only that easy.....
What makes you think the last slab you bought from Houston or Los Angeles or Miami wasn't that 20% better fake in a very good fake slab? Because you didn't recognize it as one? That's a heck of a dangerous false sense of security that's going to lead some people to lose some serious money if it hasn't already.
Was it not really a heart attack because the doctor didn't tell you it was?
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? >>
Item location: China >>
Yes. But as PerryHall stated, what if this item were in the U.S.? >>
Obviously if you dont know how to spot a fake coin or slab then you can buy one.
Here are pictures comparing the current fake pcgs slabs to real ones.
Currently the fake pcgs slab bar codes do not match the cert numbers so I guess you could get a barcode scanner and check the slabs that way.
editorial note, I'm not a collector of these types of coins, so I can't comment past the poor (or lack of) distressing on the coins.
The best I got is the label and slab. It is something to be feared as they get better at faking them.
can't stop all counterfeiters. eventually, like super bills, there will be super slabs. Then, I suppose, super fake coins.
<< <i>Just say no to all coins originating in China, problem solved. >>
NOT TRUE. Once these coins make their way to the U.S. they will eventually enter the coin market.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm a newbie. Please tell me why the coin and the slab are fake.
Seriously, I can't tell from the eBay auction itself that the slab and/or the coin are fake. I don't have any experience collecting Lafayette Dollars. And I really don't pay attention to the characteristics of the slab. Besides, I really don't have deep experience collecting coins. I just trust the slabs and my favorite dealers to get me a good coin that I like. This is true for any other coin type/series as well, whether it's the Lincoln Cent or the Chain Cent.
Now, don't give me that lecture about educating myself. I don't give a hoot, and I don't have time. I do have a basic knowledge of obvious fakes, but other than that, I don't have time to study in any great detail. That's why I go to my trustworthy coin dealers for coins, because I trust the expertise of the dealers to make sure that I get the right coins. >>
here is the recent trade dollar thread
the T$1 auction is gone, but the pictures survive in the thread. read the commentary, then look at the picture of the label in this slab and compare with the one on Heritage (the real slabbed coin) >>
Right. To clarify, my question is, without that information, how can I tell? If I went to a coin dealer right now, without any previous knowledge other than I trust my coin dealer and that I hear that PCGS slabs are good, how can I tell that the coin and the slab are real or fake? >>
Check out the seller feedback, looks fishy to me!! The same buyer on most stuff and only 33 sales, looks funny to me ! And this is the second fake pcgs slab I have seen recently.
<< <i>"real" dealers are getting these and flipping themfake PCGS >>
Here is a pic of the one sold at Heritage.
Link
It has a offer pending too
<< <i>I will NEVER,NEVER, EVER buy ANYTHING from CHINA, EVER!!!!! And now the fake ,copy, pcgs slab scares me and should scare pcgs and you!!
suit yourself. i've purchased about $10k from Chinese dealers the last year or so, and every one of them has slabbed by PCGS and NGC (aside from a cleaned one, that i kinda' figured it was). There are some high end Chinese dealers, and there are some scumbags; just like in the United States.
<< <i>
<< <i>I will NEVER,NEVER, EVER buy ANYTHING from CHINA, EVER!!!!! And now the fake ,copy, pcgs slab scares me and should scare pcgs and you!!
suit yourself. i've purchased about $10k from Chinese dealers the last year or so, and every one of them has slabbed by PCGS and NGC (aside from a cleaned one, that i kinda' figured it was). There are some high end Chinese dealers, and there are some scumbags; just like in the United States. >>
You must know your stuff better than I...
Now I checked the listing and it shows 6***6 won this item with a Best Offer of US $8,000.00.
<< <i>I sent the US seller of the fake trade dollar a message thru eBay letting them know it was a fake and provided a link to the correct coin at Heritage.
Now I checked the listing and it shows 6***6 won this item with a Best Offer of US $8,000.00.
$8000.00! Nice profit!
<< <i>
<< <i>Just say no to all coins originating in China, problem solved. >>
NOT TRUE. Once these coins make their way to the U.S. they will eventually enter the coin market. >>
I agree, but this one obviously originates directly from China.
scroll down in the seller's feedback.