Multiple Jefferson 1938 QDOs?

BigDowgie

Nickel Crew,
I was recently talking with another Jeff collector and informed me that his attributed PCGS 1938 QDO (FS-21.5) has the double profile. Mine and the other ones I've seen do not. Just my opinion, but this is an entirely different variety! It may possess a similar thickness in the letters of LIBERTY, appearing to be quadrupled, but the four separations are not as distinguished or blurred altogether. Now we have two different 1938 QDOs labeled as the same variety. I’m going to send PCGS my 1938 Doubled Profile Jefferson and see what they do. We should push to have PCGS create a new variety to clearly distinguish the two?
Let me know what you think?
Thanks
Dowgie

Doubled Profile 1938


1938 Regular QDO

BigDowgie

PCGS awarded my 1938 "Doubled Profle" with the FS21.5 designation. Someday they may recognize this is a different variety? In the mean time, seems like you should be able to find both varieties of the 1938 QDO without too much difficulty. My observations and talking with others, I would place finding either variety at about 50/50.

Dowgie

leothelyon

Congrats to you bigdog! Man, this place has been dead lately. Just how did you get the designation? Is this variety listed in PCGS's goto CPG?

Leo

GrumpyEd

It's possible that the one with more doubling is an earlier die state of the same variety.

It's also possible that they're attributing them wrong. There are several similar 1938 DDOs listed. You could send it to Coneca and have them tell which one it realy is.

Check out the Coneca listings, the 021.5 is supposed to be Conecas die-5:

Coneca 1938 DDO listings

FullStepJeffs

Wow... I can see those pictures... I'm a little shocked since it's pretty rare around here. All I ever see is red X's. Where did you host the pictures.

Okay, so now I gotta go check and see if I have any of those when I get back home.

Off the top of my head, I vaguely remember something similar being discussed on the 38 QDO many years ago. I think the thought process was at the time the possibility of die state for the thicker letters, but I've never seen the double profile version. Nice coin. What did it grade?

Steve

19Lyds

Oh Great!

Come here!

Learn Something new!


Add something else to the list of stuff to look for!

koynekwest

CONECA lists 15 different obverse doubled dies for this date. The one you have pictured is among the nicest-I've cherried several.

tahoe98

<< <i>Oh Great!

Come here!

Learn Something new!


Add something else to the list of stuff to look for! >>




.............yeah!

BigDowgie

koynekwest,
Yes, too many DDOs listed on CONECA site. I always thought that the 1938 "Doubled Profile" is the DDO-008, described as, "Strong spread on LIBERTY, date, IN GOD WE TRUST, and profile". The intended 1938 QDO (FS-21.5) is designated as DDO-005. Clearly two different varieties!

Leon,
I was fortunate enough to pick this one up already in a PCGS MS66FS holder that was not designated. Just had to submit for designation. One of those finds where the seller did not notice this variety. Now, us variety collectors have two 1938 QDOs to look for by PCGS standards! I now have both of them in PCGS holders.

Just curious, for those that do own examples of the QDO, tell us which variety you have. Maybe one is harder to find than the other. Right now I think it is pretty even split between them. Maybe the doubled profile is slightly tougher to find?

Dowgie

BigDowgie

Leo,
And yes, the Cherry Pickers Guide is what PCGS attributes by. And the CPG lists this as QDO (5-0-II), which would be DDO-005 that I mentioned in previous post. Funny, CPG does not reference any "doubled face" as a key variety marker! Wonder what the variety attributer is smoking during office hours?

Dowgie

BigDowgie

Crew, I apologize for talking bad about the folks that attribute coins. I happen to know a bunch about Jeffersons and not much about other denominations. I'll cut them a little slack for now.

Anyway, I did contact someone at PCGS with this concern. He acknowledged that DDO-005 is the correct 1938 QDO FS-1105 (or FS-21.5 depending on which reference number you like). I'm not sure what they will do about the ones that have already been attributed incorrectly, but this is a start. Let us know if any of you get a "Doubled Profile" 1938 through as an FS-1105.

Dowgie

koynekwest

BigDowgie-

I would concur with your findings. I wonder if the two dies might really be different die states of the same doubled die. It doesn't help, either that most of the DDOs listed for this date are all Class II or class VI doubled dies-the other Classes are all minor in strength. I see Die #8 is listed as a Class II+VI. I don't put much faith in most of the varieties listed with this combination. I believe most are merely later die states of a normal Class II hubbing.