Zach Greinke
Jeff85fan
Posts: 90
in Sports Talk
He throws another gem tonight, a 2-0 complete game shutout against a usually very potent Rangers lineup. He is now 3-0 with a 0.00 ERA this year.
Great season so far...its good to see some sign of hope from a long-struggling Royals franchise.
Great season so far...its good to see some sign of hope from a long-struggling Royals franchise.
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Kevin
BTW: Cubby=Cub Fan
BTW: Cubby=Cub Fan
I gave it to my friend Stone.
Steve
If the Royals could just be a middle of the road offense, they'd look to win 90 games with the pitching they've had thus far. Unfortunately having the best pitching and the worst offense only makes you a middle of the road team. Fortunately though it looks like the division is up for grabs so it should be interesting for a while. Go Royals.
If you have the chance, you should definitely watch him pitch.
and to think, I offered this guy and some other players to someone else for Cole Hamels! HA HA HA HA
JS
<< <i>The rest of my fantasy team just crapped themselves. 57 points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and to think, I offered this guy and some other players to someone else for Cole Hamels! HA HA HA HA
JS >>
Ohhh come on now, those girls in the choir do not know their baseball, you can't blame them....
Now the Conductor, that feller always looks sneaky to me, I'd watch out for him...
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
It's about time something good happend to KC. They've sucked for so long (but they still have more WS trophies than the SF Giants do.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Well, he's certainly off to a great start at 6-0 -- but he's 40W-45L lifetime -- so let's not get too excited. He's not a promising rookie who looks like he's gonna be the next Sandy Koufax.
<< <i>"This kid is amazing!"
Well, he's certainly off to a great start at 6-0 -- but he's 40W-45L lifetime -- so let's not get too excited. He's not a promising rookie who looks like he's gonna be the next Sandy Koufax. >>
Let's also remember that he got his record by pitching for one of the worst teams in baseball as a 20 year old. He has always had promising upside, and started showing it last year.
If he's drafted by the Yankees he spends an extra couple of years in the minors and has a winning record from day one, and being in the Yankees system, gets enough publicity to be touted as a top prospect.
It is great seeing the KC ball club doing well.
Steve
<< <i>Well, he's certainly off to a great start at 6-0 -- but he's 40W-45L lifetime -- so let's not get too excited. He's not a promising rookie who looks like he's gonna be the next Sandy Koufax. >>
Probably not a Koufax, but it looks like a star is being born.
Greinke is possibly following in the footsteps of some dominating pitchers before him. Koufax, Santana, Pedro Martinez, and Roy Halladay all had explosive break-out seasons in their mid 20s (after a few so-so seasons) that put them in with the elite.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
Greinke is possibly following in the footsteps of some dominating pitchers before him. Koufax, Santana, Pedro Martinez, and Roy Halladay all had explosive break-out seasons in their mid 20s (after a few so-so seasons) that put them in with the elite. >>
<< <i>Probably not a Koufax, but it looks like a star is being born.
Greinke is possibly following in the footsteps of some dominating pitchers before him. Koufax, Santana, Pedro Martinez, and Roy Halladay all had explosive break-out seasons in their mid 20s (after a few so-so seasons) that put them in with the elite. >>
As always...I agree with you 100%.
He has always been highly touted and looks to have finally worked it all out. Now those who have his cards can sit back and watch them rise.
mathew
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
<< <i>He has always been highly touted and looks to have finally worked it all out. >>
Giants fans have been waiting for this very thing to happen with Matt Cain. He turns 25 in October... maybe next year?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Season.....6........6.......3........2......45.0......30.......3.........2........0.......8......54......6.....0....105.3......0.84......189....0.40
Career....150...109.....6........2....703.2.....737....334....315....83....182..562....40...45.....95.8......1.31......269....4.03
OK -- here are Greinke's stats -- and I'm still not sold on a "future of greatness".
For the moment, let's ignore his sub-par win-loss record (since the quality of your own team effects that).
737 hits in 703 innings pitched is "very average" (perhaps even worse than average).
562 SO's in 703 innings is also "average", perhaps slightly better than average.
The same can be said for his strikeout-to-walk ratio, his batting-ave-against, his ERA, ...
Signs of greatness?? I'm just not seeing it!!
<< <i>SPLITS G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L P/GS WHIP BAA ERA
Season 6 6 3 2 45.0 30 3 2 0 8 54 6 0 105.3 0.84 .189 0.40
Career 150 109 6 2 703.2 737 334 315 83 182 562 40 45 95.8 1.31 .269 4.03
OK -- here are Greinke's stats -- and I'm still not sold on a "future of greatness".
For the moment, let's ignore his sub-par win-loss record (since the quality of your own team effects that).
737 hits in 703 innings pitched is "very average" (perhaps even worse than average).
562 SO's in 703 innings is also "average", perhaps slightly better than average.
The same can be said for his strikeout-to-walk ratio, his batting-ave-against, his ERA, ...
Signs of greatness?? I'm just not seeing it!! >>
I think the point most are trying to make is that now that he is no longer a head case (for now), he might be able to sustain his dominance shown thus far in 2009. We shall see.
He was after all a number 1 pick (6th) over all back in 02.
Even the yr he went 5 and 17 you have to be pretty good to get that many decisions.
No I'm not surprised he is doing this well.
Didn't he pitch a 5 inning rain shortened perfect game back in 04?
Steve
<< <i>SPLITS----G----GS---CG---SHO---IP-------H-----R------ER---HR---BB---SO---W---L----P/GS---WHIP----BAA---ERA
Season.....6........6.......3........2......45.0......30.......3.........2........0.......8......54......6.....0....105.3......0.84......189....0.40
Career....150...109.....6........2....703.2.....737....334....315....83....182..562....40...45.....95.8......1.31......269....4.03
OK -- here are Greinke's stats -- and I'm still not sold on a "future of greatness".
For the moment, let's ignore his sub-par win-loss record (since the quality of your own team effects that).
737 hits in 703 innings pitched is "very average" (perhaps even worse than average).
562 SO's in 703 innings is also "average", perhaps slightly better than average.
The same can be said for his strikeout-to-walk ratio, his batting-ave-against, his ERA, ...
Signs of greatness?? I'm just not seeing it!! >>
I would argue that having average numbers, on an absolutely terrible team, is a sign of greatness. You can make stats say anything you want. If you take away 2005, when he went 5-17 and almost quit the game due to his mental issues, his numbers (29-28, 3.69, 7.5 K/9) are very good for a young pitcher, playing for a terrible team, coming into his prime.
I for one don't like to say anyone is destined for greatness, because you just never know, especially with pitchers. But all things considered, Greinke has been very effective up to this point in his career, and he is entering what typically are a pitchers best years. There is no reason to believe that if he stays both physically and mentally healthy, that he won't be one of the top pitchers in the game during the coming years.
James
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Sincerely,
My Fantasy Team
I recall that he was being compared to Greg Maddux when he first came up, for his control, and he is a harder thrower. I'd love to see him win 20 games or more
<< <i>I'd love to see him win 20 games or more >>
That would be nice. The Royals haven't had a 20 game winner since Saberhagen went 23-6 in 1989. 20 years ago! (Although David Cone was well on his way during the 1994 strike season: he was 16-5 at that point.)
On another point of Royals futility I hope Jose Guillen or Mike Jacobs will hit at least 40 HRs this year. The Royals are the only team as far as I know who have NEVER had a 40 homer player. The team record still stands at 36. (Steve Balboni, 1985.)
BTW - could the original author of this thread please edit this post to spell his first name correctly
Nice article by Craig Brown
Zack Greinke For Cy Young
Written by Craig Brown
Monday, 31 August 2009 00:00
We’ve seen performances like this from Zack Greinke before, but they never get old. It’s simply a joy to watch him pitch when he’s on. And this year… He’s been on! (Can you imagine what this year would be like without Greinke? On second thought, don't.)
The latest gem was probably his best performance to date. And with nothing for us fans to root for down the stretch, we need to turn all our energy and karma to Greinke as he prepares to put the finishing touches on what should be his Cy Young season.
There is no way any unbiased voter can watch Sunday’s performance and not declare Zack Greinke to be the best pitcher in all of baseball. No way.
If the season ended today (and there’s a bunch of us who do in fact wish the season would come to a merciful end) Greinke would be the Cy Young award winner. If he doesn’t win the award, I’ll write my congressman. They hold hearings on steroids, why can’t they do the same for people who were robbed individual recognition due to shortsightedness and stupidity?
Anyway, long time readers will know that I love the pitcher’s Game Score. Some of you may even recall a couple of years ago when I created the “Gil Gauge” as a way of measuring his production and viability as a Cy Young candidate. On the meter I created for Meche, I had him as a Cy Young contender if his average game score was better than 55. That wasn’t some arbitrary number… I did some research of past Cy Young award winners and found that if you had an average Game Score of 55 or better, you usually were in the top three.
In my mind, the Game Score is not unlike any other rate stat (like ERA or FIP) in that pitchers can have great games and they can have bad games. However, the cream will ultimately rise to the top. If 50 is an average Game Score - which it is - then the best pitchers in the league will have an average Game Score better than 50. The elite, will be much higher.
Greinke’s average Game Score is 62.
That’s unreal.
For your consideration, I submit the pitchers with the four highest average Game Scores this summer:
Greinke - 62
Halladay - 59
Verlander - 59
Hernandez - 59
It’s not even close. And it follows every other conventional stat (aside from wins) that we know about Greinke’s stellar season.
The top average Game Score this year belongs to the Giants Tim Lincecum. In fact, three NL pitchers have higher average Game Scores than Greinke
Lincecum - 65
Haren - 63
Carpenter - 63
These guys are all fine pitchers, but I have to think that the weakness of National League bats (particularly in the West) have to help inflate Game Scores. Certainly, the Game Score is not the end all, be all of pitching stats. It’s just something I like to look at when measuring overall effectiveness.
Moving forward, here’s where Greinke currently ranks in the more “traditional” stats that voters will be looking at.
ERA - 1st
WHIP - 1st
SO - 2nd
Shutouts - 1st
CG - 1st
Wins - T 5th
That Win total is a bummer. If that ultimately costs him this award, I’ll never acknowledge the existence of the BBWAA (the writers who vote for the award) ever again. (I'll do that by never purchasing a newspaper. I mean it!) There’s plenty of information available - not to mention common sense - that says Wins are the dumbest stat in the world to apply to a pitcher.
It’s ironic actually. A team sport celebrates the individual. Yet, it is a team stat that may cost a player an individual award. To hold Greinke accountable for his low win total is the same as holding him accountable for global warming. The dude has pitched his best for most of the season (as illustrated by his outstanding average Game Score) and yet his teammates don’t show up on the nights he’s pitching.
If Greinke doesn’t get this award, I’ll place the blame fully on the front office regime (remember, I’m not talking about them anymore) and the lack of talent they placed around their star.
I saw a poll from Sports Illustrated or somewhere like that, that asked AL managers who the best pitcher was in their league. Greinke finished second, to Halladay. Unreal. I think it just goes to show how powerful perceptions are in this game. Halladay is a great pitcher - no doubt about it - but he’s not as great as Greinke. Not this year. Yet, major league managers, the guys who watch baseball all the time, can’t get the question correct. How do we expect sportswriters to come up with the right answer?
(Although I will say with a great deal of certainty, the sportswriters in Kansas City are much smarter than the manager in Kansas City.)
Anyway, there is always some optimism when it comes to these awards, that maybe this will be the year where some more evolved statistics are used to evaluate performance.
K/9 - 3rd
K/BB - 2nd
ERA+ - 1st
FIP - 1st
WAR - 1st
Greinke outpaces Halladay in every single statistical category I’ve mentioned in this article but one. Halladay has a 6.33 K/BB ratio, while Greinke has a 5.05 K/BB ratio. Greinke has more strikeouts on average, but he also has more walks than Halladay.
I mention Halladay because the conventional wisdom is he’s the favorite for this award. The funny thing is, if voting were held today, I’m not sure he should even finish in the top three. For my money, the one to watch is a pitcher who also threw in this recently completed series - King Felix Hernandez. Hernandez has positioned himself as a legitimate contender after a recent string of starts. Of course, both Greinke and Hernandez have been helped by the Halladay tank job that is currently underway. (I tend to discount trade rumors and the effect they have on ballplayers, but have you ever seen someone so depressed to not get dealt? He was so certain he was out of Toronto, he mentally checked out after the deadline. It can’t help that he sees Cliff Lee pitching mowing down overmatched hitters in a weaker league.)
There’s a month left in the season, so there’s still plenty of time for a challenger to arise to try to knock the crown off Greinke. However, if he stays focused on the prize, there’s no way anyone will take the Cy Young from Zack. No way.
Zack Greinke for Cy Young!
Beckett effectively took himself out of Cy Young race, and I would hate to see CC steal Grienke's award like he stole Beckett's in 2007. However, Verlander is in the mix as well.
Yankee - not for at least another 3 years - he's locked up.
<< <i>Greinke has been masterful. Hopefully the writers arent dumb enough to give their votes to Beckett, CC or anyone else. The only other person I'd consider is Verlander, but Greink is far and away the top of the AL Class. >>
Actually, I think Felix Hernandez has second place locked up -- he would win only if Grienke gets lit up for 5+ runs in each of his last 2 starts (unlikely). CC and Verlander will battle for third. Beckett 5th.