How does the PCGS Grade Room Work?

C0inCollect0r

Hi all,

I'm not sure if anyone actually knows the details on this, but I was just thinking about it and figured I'd throw it out there since I'm curious. Specifically:

1) Just how many graders does PCGS use?
2) Are there "specialist" graders who grade particular series or are all graders expected to grade all coins?
3) Along similar lines, does a single grader grade an entire submission or is it broken up among different graders?
4) Are "high dollar" submitted coins reserved for particular "senior or expert" graders?
5) Any other interesting pieces of info on how this whole operation works?

SilverEagles92

PCGS Grading Process Video

CaptHenway

Two words: Dancing girls!

YaHa

Dart boards with Pcgs labels..

A sorter goes through your coins when they open your submission and puts them in a batch of a average grade for that type coin..

Then each graders throws a dart.. If one grader gets a bulls eye that coin is automatically given the highest possible grade..

If one graded misses the whole board it is put into a Genuine slab. These way more coins are graded quicker and keeps company costs down to a acceptable margin.

JMHO and I am sticking to it..

RaginsteveK

there's a PCGS video presentation (or a video was made of a presentation) - 1997, maybe.

was shown at the local coin club lately (my 1st meeting)

they loosen up looking at "standards"; 3 or 4 graders look at each coin quickly (eventually- trays circulate) and without reference to any other data or grades; sounded like less than a minute per coin per grader (maybe 20 seconds).

Any major discrepancies are given a more intense look. (Actually doesnt sound like a bad system- maybe the only system if you're gonna look at 600 coins / day, or more).

At that time (97), the president was one of the graders. A photo of him on the job, handling coins with bare hands, did not inspire confidence. Maybe the photo was staged, I hope.

Pretty decent presentation, in all.

I dont believe there was any major specializing (dont recall the details); but I would guess that there's some expertise available for uncommon occurances.

WTCG

<< <i>there's a PCGS video presentation (or a video was made of a presentation) - 1997, maybe.

was shown at the local coin club lately (my 1st meeting)

they loosen up looking at "standards"; 3 or 4 graders look at each coin quickly (eventually- trays circulate) and without reference to any other data or grades; sounded like less than a minute per coin per grader (maybe 20 seconds).

Any major discrepancies are given a more intense look. (Actually doesnt sound like a bad system- maybe the only system if you're gonna look at 600 coins / day, or more).

At that time (97), the president was one of the graders. A photo of him on the job, handling coins with bare hands, did not inspire confidence. Maybe the photo was staged, I hope.

Pretty decent presentation, in all.

I dont believe there was any major specializing (dont recall the details); but I would guess that there's some expertise available for uncommon occurances. >>



I don't know what video you saw at the coin club but the video in the link by SilverEagles92 is fairly recent and is very accurate in describing how the submission process works. I'll add a few additional points...

For about 95 percent of the coins out there it takes less than 10 second to them accurately. Most graders require even less time than that and most coins do not require the use of any magnifying tool.

Graders will look at several thousands of coins daily, not just hundreds.

In 1997 Rick Montgomery was the president of PCGS. He was and still is arguably one of the best graders in the world.

Graders handle coins while grading them with their bare fingers. It is much safer and much more time-efficient to do that than use gloves. Coins get dropped and mishandled much more frequently when handled with gloves.

coinkat

WTCG:

I know that your description is the way it is. I still cannot imagine taking 10 seconds to grade the type of coins I buy... I am just not able to grade coins that fast

golfer72

If you see some of the grades assigned to coins in slabs it doesnt surprise ma that they only look for a few seconds at each coin. Also if they use bare hands that is just plain irresponsible. They are putting oil from their skin on coins owned by other people. No good.

DoubleEagle59

I've been told graders take between 7 and 15 seconds to look at a coin and in this time they can tell:

what grade it is, (and in doing so, evaluate: luster, strike, beauty, wear etc...),
if the coin is counterfeit or real,
if the coin has been altered in any way,
if the coin has been cleaned or surfaces played with,
and feel 100% correct in their evaluation,

It is my personal opinion, that no matter how good you are, you cannot take this amount of time and fully and accurately grade a coin.

I'm not talking about taking 5 minutes either, but I feel approx. 10 seconds is way too quick to assess a coin's grade. Just can't be done and still maintain a high degree of quality control (IMHO).

golfer72

Very well said Double Eagle

PawPaul

"For about 95 percent of the coins out there it takes less than 10 second to them accurately. Most graders require even less time than that and most coins do not require the use of any magnifying tool. "

.........I changed my mind ....... and edited my post to remove my incorrect and inaccurate response to the above statement .

PawPaul

<< <i>If you see some of the grades assigned to coins in slabs it doesnt surprise ma that they only look for a few seconds at each coin. Also if they use bare hands that is just plain irresponsible. They are putting oil from their skin on coins owned by other people. No good. >>



bully 4 u golfer- thats why I guess you see so many slabs with "hairlines" that the graders "missed"


take a look at the master , .......... D. Hall

When you watch his video's where he's describing a coin coming up for auction :

he scrutinizes them real good with a magnifier.......

UtahCoin

Here is a picture that was recently taken in the grading room at PCGS.

tahoe98

.........i think CAC takes 45 seconds....

RedTiger

The replies remind me of a story. I was helping a student in a finance class with a homework assignment. The assignment concerned picking some hypothetical stocks to buy as a part of a model portfolio. She asked me to come up with a ticker symbol or two for her to possibly include and gave me her variables. They had to be a within a certain market cap range, a certain level of financial stability, a certain p/e ratio. Without any special software, just public Internet access, I compiled a short list of stocks to look at within a few minutes. Soon after that, I had picked the two or three from that list of ten that I thought were best from that list. The student looked at me with wide eyes, telling me that it would have taken days and days for her to get that far, if she could do it at all. I explained the methodology, and how she could cut a lot of time from such searches. By teaching her a process, I could cut her time by about 80%. If she did it every day for a month, she could cut another 50% from the time. Why can I do it so fast? Because I look at lots of stocks in a similar fashion most every day, and I have been doing that for 20 years. As with coin grading, I don't claim that my stock picks are 100% or even close.

The analogy is that if a person does something a 1000 times a day, and has been doing it for 20 years, they are likely going to be a lot better, a lot faster than a novice. How many coins does an average forum collector grade in a year? 50? 100? 1000? Pro graders do that year's worth every work day, for the slower collectors they do a year's worth in less than an hour. There is a process that can be taught. There are some people with more talent than others. There is a mindset that pro graders have, that normal people don't. The disclaimer is that some items on the list such as authentication are NOT done by the graders. An authenticator will take a good look under high magnification for certain coins on a list, and certain coins that are questionable for whatever reason.

There is a probationary period. If a new grader seems far off, they get cut. If their consistency wavers, they get cut. Not everyone has the talent or personality to be a pro grader.

/edit typos

RaginsteveK

I didnt remember the exact number/ day, knew it was big- didnt want to overstate.

RaginsteveK

<< <i>

I don't know what video you saw at the coin club but the video in the link by SilverEagles92 is fairly recent and is very accurate in describing how the submission process works. I'll add a few additional points...



<< <i>For about 95 percent of the coins out there it takes less than 10 second to them accurately. Most graders require even less time than that and most coins do not require the use of any magnifying tool.

Graders will look at several thousands of coins daily, not just hundreds.

In 1997 Rick Montgomery was the president of PCGS. He was and still is arguably one of the best graders in the world.

Graders handle coins while grading them with their bare fingers. It is much safer and much more time-efficient to do that than use gloves. Coins get dropped and mishandled much more frequently when handled with gloves. >>




I was impressed overall; I wasn't overly concerned about the non-gloved thing, but several club members were (I figured they knew what they were talking about)

very worthwhile presentation!

DoubleEagle59

just think about this as a totally independent thought process.

a person looks at thousands of coins a day and spends only 10 seconds on each one.

Now I ask you - How darn accurate and consistent is the grading going to be?

Granted, on one hand PCGS is a business to make money (ie, grade as many items as they can per day to maximize profit), conversely, PCGS also wants to maintain the highest degree of quality control with their grading.

Personally, I have to say that I feel they should slow down just a little bit and strive to maintain their grading standards a little more.

The sole characteristic of a Number 1 world class company (especially a 'grading' company) is not their 'slab' or their pricing. It's not the size of their office building, nor is it how many employees they have.

The number 1 characteristic of any company is the respect it holds in their trade. This is mainly due to the accuracy and the consistency of their grading.

PCGS in the world today is the number 1 company, but personally speaking, I believe there is much room for improvement.

I do have issues with:

1. the consistency of grading,

2. the flip-flop of grading standards over time,

3. and the abundance of very borderline bodybag grading.

mozeppa

<< <i>Dart boards with Pcgs labels..
A sorter goes through your coins when they open your submission and puts them in a batch of a average grade for that type coin..
Then each graders throws a dart.. If one grader gets a bulls eye that coin is automatically given the highest possible grade..
If one graded misses the whole board it is put into a Genuine slab. These way more coins are graded quicker and keeps company costs down to a acceptable margin.
JMHO and I am sticking to it.. >>



if anyone hits the wall ......coin automatically gets a "questionable color or toning" B-B

oh....and the distance darts are thrown from is...((((((((***my best "rain man" voice***)))))))..."bout a hunert yards...yeah...bout a hunert yards"

k-mart sucks.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>"For about 95 percent of the coins out there it takes less than 10 second to them accurately. Most graders require even less time than that and most coins do not require the use of any magnifying tool. "

this is pure unadulterated B.S :

many doctored/altered coins can not be detected with the naked eye- I don't care how good your grading skills are.

go to a freaking coin show : 90% of the dealers wouldn't be caught dead without a good glass ..........

and most buyers come to a show equipped with a magnifier -if not they borrow one ! before making any significant purchase.

so this crap that there's something superhuman about PCGS graders and that MY coins are not viewed under magnification when graded

makes me angry >>



There certainly is something special about PCGS graders---otherwise they wouldn't be grading for PCGS. They're some of the best grading eyes in the business, and unlike a lot of coin dealers, they tend to have very good vision.

Most coins get a 5-10 second lookover. A loop might be used to check the authenticity of a mintmark, or to examine an abnormality, but not for much more. The truth of grading is that if you evaluate the detail of each aspect of a coin's grade individually using a loop, and then combine these independent aspects to reach your final grade, you're probably not going to be a very accurate grader. Coin grading is based on a gut impression of what to coin looks like overall--taking in strike, luster, detail and general eye appeal all at once. Graders only spend several seconds to grade coins because that's all they really need to get an impression of the coin overall.

RaginsteveK

maybe it's only implied- but if 3 graders, each spending 20 seconds on a coin, arrive at the same grade- it's probably OK;

if they're all over the place, the coin needs and gets special attention.

If this wasn't the case- if this technique was unsound, and each coin needed special attention (like a minute)- can you imagine what you'd be paying for the service???

DoubleEagle59

There certainly is something special about PCGS graders---otherwise they wouldn't be grading for PCGS. They're some of the best grading eyes in the business, and unlike a lot of coin dealers, they tend to have very good vision.

Most coins get a 5-10 second lookover. A loop might be used to check the authenticity of a mintmark, or to examine an abnormality, but not for much more. The truth of grading is that if you evaluate the detail of each aspect of a coin's grade individually using a loop, and then combine these independent aspects to reach your final grade, you're probably not going to be a very accurate grader. Coin grading is based on a gut impression of what to coin looks like overall--taking in strike, luster, detail and general eye appeal all at once. Graders only spend several seconds to grade coins because that's all they really need to get an impression of the coin overall

In today's world with the Uncirculated grade being split into many subgrades (MS60 to MS70), it truly defies my logic how one can think these 'God-like superhuman' graders can maintain a system of grading accuracy and consistency in a matter of 5 to 10 seconds.

I just don't buy this story of how an expert can grade in 5 to 10 seconds.

More to the point - how many of you have confidence that someone is doing their utmost best in grading your coins when spending only 5 to 10 seconds on them???

I think a better time is at least 30 seconds, better a full minute.

Even at 60 seconds, PCGS with 5 graders working could potentially take in annually approx. $15 million gross.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>There certainly is something special about PCGS graders---otherwise they wouldn't be grading for PCGS. They're some of the best grading eyes in the business, and unlike a lot of coin dealers, they tend to have very good vision.

Most coins get a 5-10 second lookover. A loop might be used to check the authenticity of a mintmark, or to examine an abnormality, but not for much more. The truth of grading is that if you evaluate the detail of each aspect of a coin's grade individually using a loop, and then combine these independent aspects to reach your final grade, you're probably not going to be a very accurate grader. Coin grading is based on a gut impression of what to coin looks like overall--taking in strike, luster, detail and general eye appeal all at once. Graders only spend several seconds to grade coins because that's all they really need to get an impression of the coin overall

In today's world with the Uncirculated grade being split into many subgrades (MS60 to MS70), it truly defies my logic how one can think these 'God-like superhuman' graders can maintain a system of grading accuracy and consistency in a matter of 5 to 10 seconds.

I just don't buy this story of how an expert can grade in 5 to 10 seconds.

More to the point - how many of you have confidence that someone is doing their utmost best in grading your coins when spending only 5 to 10 seconds on them???

I think a better time is at least 30 seconds, better a full minute.

Even at 60 seconds, PCGS with 5 graders working could potentially take in annually approx. $15 million gross. >>



They can maintain a system of accuracy because they're extremely good at what they do. Of course the system isn't perfect--occasionally a coin receives a grade that seems totally out of the blue, however their consistency remains strong enough to maintain public trust.

I've spoken with numerous current and ex TPG graders. Almost unanimously they've said the average grading time per coin is about 5-10 seconds. I was given the opportunity in 2005 to visit the PCGS grading room at the SF ANA show, and it is true--the graders only spend about 5-10 seconds looking at each coin. Every once in a while they'd take a little longer on a piece, presumably because it was a borderline coin or that it had some abnormality.

PCGS graders are extremely skilled, and as such I put a fair amount of trust in their grades. Of course I've seen many coins I've strongly disagreed with, and many instances where I've upgraded coins, or had coins downgrade on resubmission. However, IMO, you're likely to have much more inconsistency if you look at a coin for 60 seconds instead of 10 seconds. The longer you look at a coin, the more likely it is you'll doubt yourself. Grading is a gut feeling, not an in-depth examination.

yellowkid

<< <i>Here is a picture that was recently taken in the grading room at PCGS.

>>

RaginsteveK

[


<< <i> However, IMO, you're likely to have much more inconsistency if you look at a coin for 60 seconds instead of 10 seconds. The longer you look at a coin, the more likely it is you'll doubt yourself. Grading is a gut feeling, not an in-depth examination. >>



This rings true, intuitively.

1Mike1

<< <i>Dart boards with Pcgs labels..

A sorter goes through your coins when they open your submission and puts them in a batch of a average grade for that type coin..

Then each graders throws a dart.. If one grader gets a bulls eye that coin is automatically given the highest possible grade..

If one graded misses the whole board it is put into a Genuine slab. These way more coins are graded quicker and keeps company costs down to a acceptable margin.

JMHO and I am sticking to it.. >>



And when the graders are out for the local dart tournament at the VFW, they just throw the grades in a hat and allow the lady in receiving to do the draw.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Here is a picture that was recently taken in the grading room at PCGS.

>>



At ANACS, we had spitoons!

TD

BAJJERFAN

When you offer coins for sale to a dealer, how long does he look at them to assess them? Not very long; he doesn't dwell on each one.

mozin

Crossovers must require even less time, much easier to handle than raw coins.

PawPaul

"Most coins get a 5-10 second lookover. A loop might be used to check the authenticity of a mintmark, or to examine an abnormality, but not for much more. The truth of grading is that if you evaluate the detail of each aspect of a coin's grade individually using a loop, and then combine these independent aspects to reach your final grade, you're probably not going to be a very accurate grader. Coin grading is based on a gut impression of what to coin looks like overall--taking in strike, luster, detail and general eye appeal all at once. Graders only spend several seconds to grade coins because that's all they really need to get an impression of the coin overall "

- this makes aheck of a lot of sense to me , and since I have an open mind - and can make a more educated response , based on new insight and information

the above paragraph has caused me to change my stance .

I think it's great to have coins graded in this manner IF there was some sort of finalizer at the end of the grading process

who scoped out the coin under magnification

to make sure it had no hidden problems .

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>[


<< <i> However, IMO, you're likely to have much more inconsistency if you look at a coin for 60 seconds instead of 10 seconds. The longer you look at a coin, the more likely it is you'll doubt yourself. Grading is a gut feeling, not an in-depth examination. >>



This rings true, intuitively. >>



I totally disagree with this.

The longer I look at a coin, the greater my grading accuracy.

RedTiger

<< <i>

<< <i>[


<< <i> However, IMO, you're likely to have much more inconsistency if you look at a coin for 60 seconds instead of 10 seconds. The longer you look at a coin, the more likely it is you'll doubt yourself. Grading is a gut feeling, not an in-depth examination. >>



This rings true, intuitively. >>



I totally disagree with this.

The longer I look at a coin, the greater my grading accuracy. >>



You are letting your personal biases cloud your judgement. Just because it takes you a full minute to grade, it doesn't mean it takes someone else that long. It certainly doesn't take the best in the world that long, after they have had years of practice and years of mentoring.

Since the stock research analogy didn't stick (about how an experienced person could teach a student to be ten times faster at the task and yield better results to boot), let me try something a bit more pedestrian. Do you play pool (as in billiards)? How long do you think it takes an average person to clear a table of balls, starting with a new rack? What, maybe 20 minutes for a novice player, maybe five minutes for an amateur that plays weekly at the pool hall? How long do you think a top pro pool player could do it, if paid to do it quickly and accurately, calling every shot with absolute confidence. What, 60 seconds tops after the break?

The point is that the best people, using the best methods, with the best training are going to be a many times faster than an amateur. Those that are slow at coin grading don't get to become pro graders. Those with poor eye sight or that are indecisive don't get the gig. Many pros either have exception vision, or are near sighted, so their natural vision for coin grading may be as good or better than an amateur with loupe. Just because your personal biases don't fit the reported reality so you insist on arguing. What I am trying to point out with my analogies are there are many, many tasks where training, talent, repetition, will make a person easily ten times as fast as a novice. It holds true for coin grading. People aren't lying to you, your personal biases aside.

The pro graders are likely much more consistent that you, even though then spend 10% of the time. Why? Because their minds are set up for the task and they have been taught the most efficient processes, and they look at a 1000 coins a day. Who would a rational person bet on, the amateur pool player that takes 30 seconds to line up their shot, or a pro that lines it up and takes it in 5 seconds? I'm betting on the pro, both in billiards and in coin grading. In the stock research analogy, and the clearing the pool table analogy, the experienced person is going to be faster AND better AND more consistent.

/edit to add: Yes, there are exceptional pool shots (especially if playing a game other than straight pool) that a pro will deliberate over, just as there are exceptional coins where a much longer time period is spent. The average shot, just clearing the table, the average Morgan, Saint, or modern, is usually a clean and easy, and quick decision.

WTCG

<< <i>

<< <i>There certainly is something special about PCGS graders---otherwise they wouldn't be grading for PCGS. They're some of the best grading eyes in the business, and unlike a lot of coin dealers, they tend to have very good vision.

Most coins get a 5-10 second lookover. A loop might be used to check the authenticity of a mintmark, or to examine an abnormality, but not for much more. The truth of grading is that if you evaluate the detail of each aspect of a coin's grade individually using a loop, and then combine these independent aspects to reach your final grade, you're probably not going to be a very accurate grader. Coin grading is based on a gut impression of what to coin looks like overall--taking in strike, luster, detail and general eye appeal all at once. Graders only spend several seconds to grade coins because that's all they really need to get an impression of the coin overall

In today's world with the Uncirculated grade being split into many subgrades (MS60 to MS70), it truly defies my logic how one can think these 'God-like superhuman' graders can maintain a system of grading accuracy and consistency in a matter of 5 to 10 seconds.

I just don't buy this story of how an expert can grade in 5 to 10 seconds.

More to the point - how many of you have confidence that someone is doing their utmost best in grading your coins when spending only 5 to 10 seconds on them???

I think a better time is at least 30 seconds, better a full minute.

Even at 60 seconds, PCGS with 5 graders working could potentially take in annually approx. $15 million gross. >>



They can maintain a system of accuracy because they're extremely good at what they do. Of course the system isn't perfect--occasionally a coin receives a grade that seems totally out of the blue, however their consistency remains strong enough to maintain public trust.

I've spoken with numerous current and ex TPG graders. Almost unanimously they've said the average grading time per coin is about 5-10 seconds. I was given the opportunity in 2005 to visit the PCGS grading room at the SF ANA show, and it is true--the graders only spend about 5-10 seconds looking at each coin. Every once in a while they'd take a little longer on a piece, presumably because it was a borderline coin or that it had some abnormality.

PCGS graders are extremely skilled, and as such I put a fair amount of trust in their grades. Of course I've seen many coins I've strongly disagreed with, and many instances where I've upgraded coins, or had coins downgrade on resubmission. However, IMO, you're likely to have much more inconsistency if you look at a coin for 60 seconds instead of 10 seconds. The longer you look at a coin, the more likely it is you'll doubt yourself. Grading is a gut feeling, not an in-depth examination. >>



Very well stated, especially alluding to the importance of a first impression and initial gut feeling.

lkeigwin

What a riot. I just love it when customers feel they know businesses better than those running them.

You think PCGS's process and methodology is just an accident? You don't think they've considered their operation with an eye toward efficiency, accuracy, and financial feasibility?

Seems to me some of you should sit back and pay attention.
Lance.

mozin

If ten seconds per grader is all the time the graders spend per coin, why does PCGS charge so much for grading? $30 each per minute of graders time works out to $1800 per hour. WOW!!! No way the PCGS graders are paid that well.

Fairlaneman

"If you see some of the grades assigned to coins in slabs it doesnt surprise ma that they only look for a few seconds at each coin. Also if they use bare hands that is just plain irresponsible. They are putting oil from their skin on coins owned by other people. No good."

Geez.......

"I've been told graders take between 7 and 15 seconds to look at a coin and in this time they can tell:

what grade it is, (and in doing so, evaluate: luster, strike, beauty, wear etc...),
if the coin is counterfeit or real,
if the coin has been altered in any way,
if the coin has been cleaned or surfaces played with,
and feel 100% correct in their evaluation,

It is my personal opinion, that no matter how good you are, you cannot take this amount of time and fully and accurately grade a coin.

I'm not talking about taking 5 minutes either, but I feel approx. 10 seconds is way too quick to assess a coin's grade. Just can't be done and still maintain a high degree of quality control (IMHO)."

Geez again.......

It took 5 seconds today to look and decide to return a coin that was received. PCGS probably would have taken 3 seconds and then BB it and rightfully so.

Ken

WTCG

<< <i>If ten seconds per grader is all the time the graders spend per coin, why does PCGS charge so much for grading? $30 each per minute of graders time works out to $1800 per hour. WOW!!! No way the PCGS graders are paid that well. >>



Because graders' salaries are not the only costs the submission fees pay for. Everything from payroll for the receiving, processing, customer service and shipping staffs to the cost of equipment, utilities to insurance costs money. The insurance costs alone are definitely not cheap.

Bear

Every 2 minutes I spend looking at my coins,

they increase one point in grade. Why, after

30 minutes, my coins are all MS-70. Some may

even be MS-75.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>If ten seconds per grader is all the time the graders spend per coin, why does PCGS charge so much for grading? $30 each per minute of graders time works out to $1800 per hour. WOW!!! No way the PCGS graders are paid that well. >>



Because graders' salaries are not the only costs the submission fees pay for. Everything from payroll for the receiving, processing, customer service and shipping staffs to the cost of equipment, utilities to insurance costs money. The insurance costs alone are definitely not cheap. >>



Don't forget advertising.

TwoSides2aCoin

Bulk Grading and Economy submissions are outsourced.

nicetoning42107

Depends on the coin type. 5 to 10 seconds for moderns? Sure, no problem. Probably closer to 3 to 5 seconds there.

XF/AU seem to take me the longest to grade. Taking authenticity out of the question, luster takes a bit longer to determine. Also weak strike versus wear comes into question at this level. How many contact marks and how severe before it becomes a bodybag? If it's a lower grade you allow for these but what about at the XF/AU level? Surface color needs to be considered; even at the lower grade levels, though. How do you silently net grade a coin? How harshly do you penalize a light cleaning, a small rim nick? Net grading is even a factor at the VF and lower levels. So many other things to watch out for besides outright wear in the circulated grades but especially at this XF/AU level. And i could see it taking 10 to 15 seconds for these.

Also in special cases for moderns or classics where the grade is really high, i wouldn't doubt a bit more time is taken (at least by the finalizer) before granting a top pop/tied for top pop grade for a coin.

BlindedByEgo

Always more slowly that we would hope