1932 Olympics California Gold Coin w/ Bear

Tdec1000

Here are two little "cal gold coins" both are commems I think...but I don't know. Maybe you guys can help me.

1932 Los Angeles Olympics 1/2 Cal Gold



1935 San Diego Expo 1/2 Cal Gold



Any help would be appreciated
Tom

SilverEagles92

I think the bear on the reverse means they're fantasy pieces/reproductions.

fc

<< <i>I think the bear on the reverse means they're fantasy pieces/reproductions. >>



yup. as the saying goes that i coined a while back, "see a bear, beware".

:-| tis cheese, i know, but it works for me.

Tdec1000

Hmmm....are they worth anything?

tightbudget

<< <i>Hmmm....are they worth anything? >>



Not really. Maybe a buck or two but probably no more than that.

jonathanb

There are exceptions to most rules, and these are exceptions to the "bear" rule. NGC will slab them, and there were several featured in the recent Weber sale (which appears not to be online any longer -- darn). I don't collect them, but I would readily pay quite a bit more than a buck or two. IIRC, I think the "right" price would be in the $100-$150 range apiece, although they might need to be slabbed to get the full money.

SilverEagles92

<< <i>There are exceptions to most rules, and these are exceptions to the "bear" rule. NGC will slab them, and there were several featured in the recent Weber sale (which appears not to be online any longer -- darn). I don't collect them, but I would readily pay quite a bit more than a buck or two. IIRC, I think the "right" price would be in the $100-$150 range apiece, although they might need to be slabbed to get the full money. >>



Really?

jonathanb

<< <i>Really? >>

Well, I really believe I'm right. Doesn't guarantee anything, but that's what I think. FWIW, there's one of the olympic pieces on eBay now with a starting bid of $100.

If the OP is confident that they're only worth a dollar or two, I'd happily give him $50 for the pair and let him think that he ripped me off. I'd also encourage him not to do that. It's not a fair offer. (I don't really want them, but I'll take them for that money if he absolutely insists.)

jonathan

CaptHenway

<< <i>There are exceptions to most rules, and these are exceptions to the "bear" rule. NGC will slab them, and there were several featured in the recent Weber sale (which appears not to be online any longer -- darn). I don't collect them, but I would readily pay quite a bit more than a buck or two. IIRC, I think the "right" price would be in the $100-$150 range apiece, although they might need to be slabbed to get the full money. >>



What he said......
TD

dcarr

The one piece (dated 1935) is after FDR's gold confiscation. Wouldn't it have been illegal at time of manufacture ?

PerryHall

<< <i>The one piece (dated 1935) is after FDR's gold confiscation. Wouldn't it have been illegal at time of manufacture ? >>



It may have been made for use in the jewelry trade which was exempt from the FDR gold theft.

lordmarcovan

I've seen the "bear" fantasies sell for around $10-15 in the past, just as curiosities. They have no numismatic value.

Edit to add: I was speaking of the usual fantasies with a Liberty head obverse. These, because of their association with the Olympics and the exposition, might have collector value in their own right, being exceptions to the rule, as jonathanb said.

Tdec1000

I have chosen to put these guys on ebay. You guys can decide what they are worth to you. I have been checking around and I seen one slabbed and sold in a heritage auction quite a bit back. It went for a hefty sum. Good Luck to any of you that would like to own it. 7 day return priv of course.

Tdec1000

The 1932 has an amazing clashed die as well on the obv mostly but it is very dramatic!

Dabigkahuna

Are they gold or made of brass like most fantasy pieces?

coinkat

There was a series for the 1932 Olympics in Los Angeles. These are collectible- However, I am trying to remember what the reverse was- I know it said Callifornia Gold with the 1/2- I don't recall the bear

fc

<< <i>There are exceptions to most rules, and these are exceptions to the "bear" rule. NGC will slab them, and there were several featured in the recent Weber sale (which appears not to be online any longer -- darn). I don't collect them, but I would readily pay quite a bit more than a buck or two. IIRC, I think the "right" price would be in the $100-$150 range apiece, although they might need to be slabbed to get the full money. >>



did not know that. seeing the olympic theme should have tipped me
off but did not! great post!

but to be honest.. they are still pretty much worthless to me and that
is what counts i suppose.

good luck with your ebay auction.

fc

<< <i>Are they gold or made of brass like most fantasy pieces?

>>



if i had to guess... they are plated.

Tdec1000

They are solid gold, not plated.

fc

<< <i>They are solid gold, not plated. >>



i am going to doubt that. Did you mean 14K/10K or something? Very
very rarely did they use pure gold from what i have read.

also why does the first coin in the OP appear to have the gold plate
wearing off showing a darker color underneath?

everytime i have read about these small coins and everytime a bear
was on the design it has been a fantasy piece with little to no value
unless you were interested in them.

fc

i know this page does not discuss your examples but it will give you
an idea of the full range of these fantasy pieces.

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/bears.htm
http://www.calgoldcoin.com/ephemera.htm

some are 10K. MOST are gold plated, brass, etc..

there were a ton made and most are worthless unless you like them of course.

but always keep in mind that they pumped these out in all sorts
of metals.. and on occasion solid gold.

did you test yours somehow?

Tdec1000

Yes I tested it at my shop.

sinin1

here is a similar one

1932 olympics sold at Heritage

AOEDAD

Very Collectable ..
worth $100 + each if certified ..
which NGC will do.

fc

i am still not sure.

allow me to explain.


"1932 Sprinter Olympics #3, bear nose in flower. Obverse of sprinter #1, reverse of discus thrower.
Reverse die state later than the 1936 Bay Bridge piece, indicating that this is a restrike
Obverse heavily clashed against the Discus Thrower obverse! The long odd mark above the sprinter back is from the thrower's arm. The marks above the sprinters head are from the discuss. The throwers head is underneath "MP" in the legend.
This piece was sold by Tatham Stamp & coin Company in Packet No C100b. Tatham is known to have produced restrikes of California gold tokens." In the 30s and 40s.

"Also, the LA Rubber Stamp Co was making some in the early 30's (they produced the 1932 Olympiad tokens with the Bear 2 style reverse)."

These were mostly struck in gilt copper/brass. God only knows if they
actually struck some in gold due to the mystery behind these tokens
and how many people had access to the dies.

Now your 1935 coin.

"1935 San Diego Exposition #1, bear nose in flower, few marks for ground, crack rim to C, crack rim to R."

Based on the fact that the reverse die for both your shown coins are
obviously the same i would have to say this one was also made by
the same Mass Coin and Stamp store and highly suggestive it is gilted brass/copper.



so with all this said and the chances being very likely they are plated
with gold.. when you tested them i imagine you put just a bit of the
outside onto your stone when you scratched it... never getting to
the core...

the 1932 for example sure looks like it has something besides gold
in the middle based on the wear in the obv field.

fc

<< <i>here is a similar one

1932 olympics sold at Heritage >>



"Jay Roe reports that the original Olympics tokens were produced by Julio Kilenyi of New York by request of Thomas A. Schrimper (member of the Olympic Committee) and that 5435 of these tokens were produced and GIVEN away.

Julio Kilenyi is a Hungarian sculpter who also did the artwork for some of the 1932 Olympics posters and the Harry Truman presidential inaugural medal. Most likely, he only designed the obverse of these tokens.

Jay Roe also reports that the reverse die are common with tokens known to have been made by the Pacific Stamp Company."

fc

this is a very confusing field to even make any sturdy claims on.
the amount of restrikes and cast copies are staggering. even originals
were basically just gilt copper/brass yet the people making them
deemed to make some gold back then too adding to the confusion.

frankly i think a lot of information in simply lost.

anyway.. i could spend days researching this and never find the answer. my guess is gilt. not gold. restrikes.. both of them.
also based on the looks.. cast even comes to mind. notice the bubbly
surface of the second coin, obv, at 1-2 o'clock.

coinsarefun

A push up for today...........does anyone know about these?
Or can give me some information?

jonruns

Wow it sounds like a lot of info was already been provided back in 2009....

DCW

Where in the world is @Tdec1000 ?

coinsarefun

He’s on Facebook but other than that I don’t know

Batman23

Reverse dies show the same crack on the rim at 7:30 and 10:00.

jmlanzaf

Fun thread. I learned one valuable thing: even in 2009, people were willing to definitively proffer an (incorrect) opinion without even bothering to do a little internet search.

CaptHenway

Here is a fresh link to Mike Locke's California gold page, since the link in the zombie thread did not work for me:

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/

I do not see the pieces in question on it, but see the workmanship of some other 1930's California tokens in the California token page.

As to the bear, I would speculate that whoever made these pieces in the 1930's (which are indeed collectible) later mass produced various Liberty Head and Indian Head pieces with fantasy dates in the 1850s and 1860s and, just because they had it, their stock Bear reverse design. These were the pieces sold in the rotater cases in Woolworths in the 1950s and 1960s for nominal prices.

PerryHall

@CaptHenway said:
Here is a fresh link to Mike Locke's California gold page, since the link in the zombie thread did not work for me:

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/

I do not see the pieces in question on it, but see the workmanship of some other 1930's California tokens in the California token page.

As to the bear, I would speculate that whoever made these pieces in the 1930's (which are indeed collectible) later mass produced various Liberty Head and Indian Head pieces with fantasy dates in the 1850s and 1860s and, just because they had it, their stock Bear reverse design. These were the pieces sold in the rotater cases in Woolworths in the 1950s and 1960s for nominal prices.

Good information to know.

Insider2

These tokens have been slabbed by at least two of the top four TPGS's. So far, I've not seen a counterfeit.

coinsarefun

@CaptHenway said:
Here is a fresh link to Mike Locke's California gold page, since the link in the zombie thread did not work for me:

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/

I do not see the pieces in question on it, but see the workmanship of some other 1930's California tokens in the California token page.

As to the bear, I would speculate that whoever made these pieces in the 1930's (which are indeed collectible) later mass produced various Liberty Head and Indian Head pieces with fantasy dates in the 1850s and 1860s and, just because they had it, their stock Bear reverse design. These were the pieces sold in the rotater cases in Woolworths in the 1950s and 1960s for nominal prices.

.
.

Thanks for the info and everyone else too. I case anyone was wondering........yes, I did pick one up slabbed in an ngc slab.
I searched like mad on the net but found more info on this thread.

Btw, captn’ I must be tired tonight but are you saying the 1932 Olympic coins were sold in Woolworth’s back then?

I am starting to think we will never find out who actually struck these and the mintages.

CaptHenway

No. I suggested the possibility that whoever made the legitimate tokens with the bears in the 1930's later made the fantasy tokens with similar reverses in the 1950's, and that those were sold in Woolworth's.

JBK

I learned something today!

Now the question is, what old knowledge did I have to delete in order to make room for it?

jmski52

I wonder if fc will ever decide to come back to the forums. I didn't agree with his prognostications about silver too much, but in retrospect he was apparently correct on many of them. He was a good contributor.

coinsarefun

@CaptHenway said:
No. I suggested the possibility that whoever made the legitimate tokens with the bears in the 1930's later made the fantasy tokens with similar reverses in the 1950's, and that those were sold in Woolworth's.

Thanks for the clarification. I have yet another flu due to lowered immune system and couldn’t figure it out
Thanks again

Zoins

This is a very informational thread and demonstrates one reason why this community is so great!

Tdec1000

Yes, I believe I sold these for around $125 each to Mike Locke back in the day.

Tdec1000

I do a lot on FB anymore and don't get on here enough. You guys would really enjoy the sites there.

ricko

Thanks for the resurrection.... I was asked about these while at a training course a while back. Remembered there was a thread on them, but never found it. I will get the information to the fellow that asked about one...Cheers, RickO

coinsarefun

Mine came today

CaptHenway

@coinsarefun said:
Mine came today

Very nice!

Could the OP please change the title of the thread to include something like "1932 California gold token with bear" so that this thread can be found in the future?

coinsarefun

@CaptHenway I’ll get a hold of him on Facebook and ask him.
.
.
I found another, this is a discus thrower so there must be some sort of series for these, just don’t know how many.
.
.while not in the pristine condition as the other it’s still in pretty good shape, with some toning.
.
.

CaptHenway

Very nice!

Tdec1000

Changed the title of this old thread

coinsarefun

thanks!