selling high dollar card question

ldferg

i have sold what i consider a high dollar card: 76 payton psa 9.

the buyer has little feedback and has been asking numerous questions over the last 2 days. tonight he buys the card. normally, i am not this suspicious but the questions are making me feel uneasy (actually, i never thought the buyer would purchase the card).

what precautions do you recommend taking to protect myself against any fiasco's with a paypal 'chargeback' or 'item not as described'?

storm888

Ship Prority Mail or better, with signature-confirmation and full insurance.


Anytime you accept PayPal - or a credit card - you also accept the
risk that there could be a chargeback.

stevek

Here's a little "trick" I use and it's worked quite successfully for me over the years - I check and see what the situation is where the buyer lives. To keep the post short I'll provide a few easy to understand illustrations. Say it's a $1,000 card...if the buyer is living in a home and owns the home in a neighborhood with say $500,000 houses, I ain't too concerned about shipping the card - However if the buyer is living in an apartment complex paying say $500 a month rent, then I'm concerned, and then I might not or will not ship the card, and simply refund his payment without any detailed explanation. That's the idea in a nutshell and of course there are hundreds if not thousands of variations, but sticking with this basic concept, this has worked out very well for me and I have never been stiffed for a "significant" amount of money.

MrOrganic

smart good theory

bobbyw8469

Thats a HORRIBLE theory! I live in an apartment paying $500 a month rent, yet I bet I got more in my bank account that some people in $150,000 homes!!!

storm888

The theory that "home values determine reliable buyers" prolly works
really good until it stops working at all.

I usually have items shipped to a CMRA located in a mixed-use project
that is famous for its multi-million-dollar condos. I pay $15 a month
for a mail box at that addy.

stevek

<< <i>Thats a HORRIBLE theory! I live in an apartment paying $500 a month rent, yet I bet I got more in my bank account that some people in $150,000 homes!!! >>



It's great that you've got all that money in your bank account - but that's not the point. The point is that homeowners are much, much less likely to stiff a seller on a high dollar item because they can't easily move away to avoid small claims court action...whereby a buyer in an apartment, could be getting ready to move to another state, and would be very difficult to track down for small claims court legal action.

You gotta understand that just because a buyer stiffs you with PayPal doesn't mean it has to be over - If a homeowner did that to me, I'd haul his arse into small claims court as quickly as possible, explain what the defendant did, and likely win the case hands down. But an apartment dweller would likely be long gone to another apartment and another state, who knows where, and any winning small claims court judgement would be useless...and the stiff artists know all this.

So go ahead and think whatever you want, and you go ahead and sell $1,000 cards to low rent apartment dwellers, and find out how often you get stiffed - it's up to you.

stevek

<< <i>The theory that "home values determine reliable buyers" prolly works
really good until it stops working at all.

I usually have items shipped to a CMRA located in a mixed-use project
that is famous for its multi-million-dollar condos. I pay $15 a month
for a mail box at that addy. >>



A Google search quickly uncovers anything like that - It takes some work to "learn" how to Google to find the right links and info necessary to make a good judgment - as stated, there are many variations depending on the circumstances - to me it's worth the effort.

BobbyVCP

Your theory seems flawed when I bought cards always had them send it to my UPS box because I did not want anyone to know where I lived. As well when I sold cards a majority of the time I was sending them to PO Boxes as well.

mudflap02

Back to ldferg -

What are the questions that raised red flags?

And stevek, that is honestly not a bad idea.

CDsNuts

Speaking long run, you should accept everybody's payment and expect that about 1% of your transactions will backfire. I have a broad view in terms of my ebay transactions: blanket refund policy, any bidder can win, etc... Just going based on the odds, you will come out ahead most of the time and not spend a ton of time worrying about each and every transaction.

stevek

<< <i>Your theory seems flawed when I bought cards always had them send it to my UPS box because I did not want anyone to know where I lived. As well when I sold cards a majority of the time I was sending them to PO Boxes as well. >>



Just cause you have a PO box, doesn't mean knowing your name, city, and state, I couldn't Google all that and find your house or apartment address. And if I can't find the info and don't like your ebay feedback or lack of ebay feedback, and ya wanna buy a $1,000 card from me, ya gotta understand something...you ain't gonna get it...it's that simple.

Say I've got a card that fetched $1,000 on an ebay auction...Why should I sell it to you and take an unnecessary risk when I can sell it for say $990 or whatever to somebody with basically no risk. And the $1,000 winning price in reality shouldn't have happened because scammers don't care if they artificially inflate the price on a bid...they're gonna get all the money back anyway.

Of course I'm not calling you a scammer, that's not the point...it's all about being smart and using good business judgment to maximize profits and minimize bad debts.

Allen

Do not sell the card to this guy. If you get a gut feeling he is bad, follow your gut. PayPal will be no help if he files an ISNAD claim. I got burned with that last week. I guess getting burned for one $250 transaction is better than googling the address, home value, name, city, state, myspace, facebook, twitter and adultfriendfinder for every high end transaction I have ever had.

jimq112

I don't know if it makes a difference with paypal but whenever I ship anything over $1000 I include restricted delivery and type "please verify ID" for the 2nd line of the address, directly below the name, and only ship to the owner of the paypal account.

I spend the few extra dollars to make sure the guy who paid is the only guy who can pick it up, and that if he does pick it up that I can prove it was him who picked it up. All it eliminates is the "it wasn't me who ordered it" scam.

If somebody wants to steal they will steal. If I make it harder to steal from me, they'll steal from somebody else.

stevek

<< <i>Do not sell the card to this guy. If you get a gut feeling he is bad, follow your gut. PayPal will be no help if he files an ISNAD claim. I got burned with that last week. I guess getting burned for one $250 transaction is better than googling the address, home value, name, city, state, myspace, facebook, twitter and adultfriendfinder for every high end transaction I have ever had. >>



What if it was $1,000? What if it was a few stiffs for $1,000 or more? Wonder if that would have been worth a few minutes of your Googling time? Maybe not to you, but it is to me.

...and what's adultfriendfinder have to do with it? I couldn't care less if the buyer is straight, gay or prefers dobermans....as long as the money is good.

stevek

<< <i>I don't know if it makes a difference with paypal but whenever I ship anything over $1000 I include restricted delivery and type "please verify ID" for the 2nd line of the address, directly below the name, and only ship to the owner of the paypal account.

I spend the few extra dollars to make sure the guy who paid is the only guy who can pick it up, and that if he does pick it up that I can prove it was him who picked it up. All it eliminates is the "it wasn't me who ordered it" scam.

If somebody wants to steal they will steal. If I make it harder to steal from me, they'll steal from somebody else. >>




You're exactly right - Being smart and making it harder for a scammer to steal from us.

Res

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't know if it makes a difference with paypal but whenever I ship anything over $1000 I include restricted delivery and type "please verify ID" for the 2nd line of the address, directly below the name, and only ship to the owner of the paypal account.

I spend the few extra dollars to make sure the guy who paid is the only guy who can pick it up, and that if he does pick it up that I can prove it was him who picked it up. All it eliminates is the "it wasn't me who ordered it" scam.

If somebody wants to steal they will steal. If I make it harder to steal from me, they'll steal from somebody else. >>




You're exactly right - Being smart and making it harder for a scammer to steal from us. >>



Just curious if you've actually ever held a card back based on your investigations? What would you say to the winner?

WinPitcher

He would say " sorry but I've checked your credit score, where you live, your boss and where you ate breakfast and
you fail to meet my minimum standard as a buyer." Oh and you are a Mets fan which did not help.


Steve

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't know if it makes a difference with paypal but whenever I ship anything over $1000 I include restricted delivery and type "please verify ID" for the 2nd line of the address, directly below the name, and only ship to the owner of the paypal account.

I spend the few extra dollars to make sure the guy who paid is the only guy who can pick it up, and that if he does pick it up that I can prove it was him who picked it up. All it eliminates is the "it wasn't me who ordered it" scam.

If somebody wants to steal they will steal. If I make it harder to steal from me, they'll steal from somebody else. >>




You're exactly right - Being smart and making it harder for a scammer to steal from us. >>



Just curious if you've actually ever held a card back based on your investigations? What would you say to the winner? >>



I already stated "and then I might not or will not ship the card, and simply refund his payment without any detailed explanation." Yes I have rejected some sales.

I basically say to the winner, "I am refunding your PayPal payment because I don't wish to complete the transaction with you at this time" - I don't go into a long detailed explanation - then I block the bidder. I only remember one time when a lady got slightly miffed at me for this and after a few e-mails I told her that I would accept her money order or check, and ship the item after around 7 days after receipt of her payment - she sent a check, it cleared, I shipped the item, and everything was fine.

corvette1340

I live in a $500,000 house but I've only got $9.34 in my bank account, do I qualify?

itzagoner

yeah, bettin' on a homeowner is like, a really good gamble these days cuz no one is bailing out on their mortgage.

rbdjr1

I live in a 240K south florida condo that's worth about 59K now, but it's cool!

I only owe 190K! Which was less than 80% "loan to value", a few years "back in the day"!



I wish I was paying $500 monthly rent right now!

rd

KbKards

What if my last name ends in Z and you've determined using Googles Street view search that my $500,000 house isn't in an all white neighborhood.

stevek

I do make an exception to my rule if someone tells me they are making money playing online poker. Then I figure they are blessed with abundant wealth and can afford anything so I am happy to ship them any item with unlimited credit. One buyer who at first appeared to be a deadbeat told me he just read Doyle's book, and that alone was good enough info to ship him a large order because I figure he'll definitely win a big poker tournament soon.

stevek

<< <i>What if my last name ends in Z and you've determined using Googles Street view search that my $500,000 house isn't in an all white neighborhood. >>



My last name ends in Z

corvette1340

<< <i>I do make an exception to my rule if someone tells me they are making money playing online poker. Then I figure they are blessed with abundant wealth and can afford anything so I am happy to ship them any item with unlimited credit. One buyer who at first appeared to be a deadbeat told me he just read Doyle's book, and that alone was good enough info to ship him a large order because I figure he'll definitely win a big poker tournament soon.

>>




sweet.

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>I do make an exception to my rule if someone tells me they are making money playing online poker. Then I figure they are blessed with abundant wealth and can afford anything so I am happy to ship them any item with unlimited credit. One buyer who at first appeared to be a deadbeat told me he just read Doyle's book, and that alone was good enough info to ship him a large order because I figure he'll definitely win a big poker tournament soon.

>>




sweet. >>



If they tell me they also read Hellmuth's book then I give them a discount.

ldferg

some of the questions (and i'm sure i would be asking some of them as well for an expensive card):

1 - is the flip wavy?
2 - was this graded before the subgrades?
3 - is there a line going thru the card between forehead and hairline?
4 - how can you tell when this was graded?
5 - is there a problem with the back?
6 - is the holder scratched?
7 - is the scan altered for brightness?
8 - is the scan fuzzy?
9 - can you send me a higher resolution scan?
10 - why is the auction PRIVATE? btw, it wasn't

some of the questions are legitimate and the buyer has been very responsive to emails.

some of the things making me second guess:

1 - feedback of (5) since being a member since 06 - 2 have been in the last 12 months
2 - he has not left feedback for anyone, but has positive feedback left for him
3 - attempted the 'best offer' twice but did not meet my minimum amount
4 - attempted the 'best offer' a third time and did meet my minimum. he then retracted due to the auction being marked as PRIVATE (the auction was not private, ebay doesn't allow you to see who is bidding). he said he had read about PRIVATE auctions not being good for buyers so he retracted.
5 - purchased the card via BIN within minutes after i posted a higher resolution scan without using the 'best offer' option which he had already retracted (this price was $69 less than the BIN he used)
6 - there are at least 2 auctions now with this same card at a lower cost BIN
7 - he paid immediately


maybe i'm being too paranoid. after all, i did list the card at an above average price at the time and i should be willing to sell it if someone is interested.

KbKards

"7 - he paid immediately"

What a dirt bag. What's his ID, he needs to be blocked.

Maybe he bought the card beause you offered great service and scans and he liked your card better than the others.

ldferg

kb,
you could be 100% correct.

i should clarify the 'paid immediately' was not a negative, just an observation since there were multiple auctions at prices below what i had listed.

jimq112

It's possible he's new at cards, and did too much research. It almost sounds like he met some people who gave him a list of things to check before he bought cards.

stevek

Yea, I think he's confusing the newer ebay hidden bidder ID system with the private auctions - You may want to briefly explain to him about that, but since he paid, that might not be necessary.

Another "rule of thumb" of mine - I actually like when buyers ask a lot of questions - it usually, not always, but usually signals they are legitimate - most ebay scammers usually don't like to say much for fear of being identified. I like the questions this buyer asked - good questions...he may have been burnt on an ebay sale before with these characteristics.

ldferg

i've been trying to keep the dialog/email going since the auction ended and he has been very responsive.

stevek

Another quick tip to spot a potential scammer with low feedback - Check and see if the guy has "prolifically" been bidding on many auctions recently. Usually most scammers are greedy and "go for the kill" when say they've got a stolen credit card or something like that, or intend to scam and abscond and move to another state or area...they try to stiff as many sellers as possible at a time.

stevek

BTW - Beautiful card - the buyer should be very happy with it.

hammered

Look, if you really want to protect yourself as a seller

1) Only send items with proof of delivery
2) Don't sell off ebay to someone you don't know
3) If you want to sell of ebay to someone you don't, have him pay with money order

Trying to determine a person's character by a looking at a number or two will cost you money in the long run and damage your reputation as a seller.

ldferg

the buyer has left positive feedback. we've had several positive emails. communication is key at times.

looks like all is good.