All-Time Phillies Set Composition

weinhold

I'm a relatively new collector, and I recently joined the existing "All-Time Phillies" Key Card Set. My questions are: 1) Why are some of these cards in the composite? 2) How do we change it if others agree that change is best? Any help is appreciated.

Most All-Time team sets strive to have the rookie card, which is often that player's best card, as part of the composite. However, the All-Time Phillies Set has numerous non-rookie cards, and some cards where that player appeared to have never played one game for the Philadelphia Phillies. The five 1915 Cracker Jack cards in the set are of Eddie Plank, Eddie Collins, Connie Mack, Chief Bender, and Grover Alexander. Many of these five players have earlier cards and / or weren't even Fightin' Phils.

Other cards currently in the All-Time Phillies Composite are:
1933 Goudey Jimmie Foxx (11 seasons with A's, just 1 with Phillies)
1933 Goudey Al Simmons (Mostly played for A's, never for Phillies)
1933 Goudey Mickey Cochrane (Mostly played for A's, never for Phillies)
1952 Bowman Robin Roberts (I believe the 1949 Bowman is his rookie card)

I assume that the members of the Registry will vote whenever newer players are to be added whether that be Von Hayes, Ryan Howard, J-Roll, Utley, or Hamels if they continue to play well. However, that doesn't resolve these enigmatic cards in the Set Composition. I like the '33 Goudey Al Simmons, but don't want to buy it for my All-Time Phillies Set if he was never a Phillie - I sure wish Simmons was a lifetime Phillie . If the Composite can be aligned with true "All-Time Phillies", then others can pursue a meaningful collection. Maybe that's why there are only five members of this Registry now. If anyone has answers to my above two questions, that will help. Thanks!

K

I have a lot of the same issues with the ALL-Time Red Sox set. I wrote a long letter to PSA and the best thing they could come up with to tell me was that they'd put out a vote and then change if the majority wished it.

One of my biggest issues is the 82 Bruce Hurst RC when his RC card was clearly 81. I don't know who came up with these composites but they should be shot...

helionaut

These lists are usually put together by PSA and whoever it is might not be as knowledgeable or passionate about a particular team as the registrants, so everything is subject to change. Basically, if you do all the work, you can print your list and get participants to agree to it, PSA can make the changes. So make up your checklist and work out weightings you feel are appropriate. Also, lists like this aren't necessarily only rookie cards or best rookie cards if there's a choice to be made. I know there are several Richie Ashburn cards I prefer to his RC based on aesthetics alone, which would make displaying the set more pleasant.

As to current Phils, and anyone more recent than Mike Schmidt, I think Howard, as ROY, MVP, and WS winner, could retire today and be an all-time Phils great, even though he's been on the team, jeez, four years. Not sure about Rollins, though he's very good. Utley not yet. Von Hayes? As their maybe best player in the mid-80s, I don't think that makes him an all-time great. Some of those teams were awful. I'd rather see Johnny Callison. And also, Bowa's on the list but not Bob Boone? And there's Curt Schilling, who was in PHL for more years than anywhere else, but achieved his greatest fame and success after getting traded.

Anyway, that's the sort of debate you can get into. Thanks for posting this, though, I never even knew the set was there.

cougar701

Great questions and some great thought for answers...

Please let us all know what you find out so we can more wisely pursue necessary changes to Registry Sets in the future

weinhold

From what I gather, it sounds like I'll start with simply informing PSA that players whom never even played for the Phillies comprise parts of the All-Time Phillies Registry. I'll then ask them if it's OK that I request a vote among fellow registrants, using my proposed participants and grade weights as a suggestion.

Let's hope this goes better than the Phillies hitters tonight in their season opener against Derek Lowe.

weinhold

Follow-up: after informing PSA that the All-Time Phillies Registry includes non-Phillies, they corrected the set name to the one that they had intended earlier: "All-Time Philadelphia Baseball". It includes both Philadelphia Phillies and Philadelphia Athletics players.

I will need to make a set request for a specific All-Time Phillies set. If you have any suggestions for it, please add them here.

cougar701

Nice work... Once you decide who you will be in the set, it will be several months before it gets added to the registry officially.


Enough time to get a great start on it.

weinhold

Here's my draft proposal for an All-Time Phillies Set Registry. Please consider that this is just the start of a moving framework, as I would like input from others whom have either more sports knowledge than I (I'm young), and know more about cards (especially '90s-to-present cards as I only began collecting last year, and only have learned some things about vintage cards). The PSA 8 Sports Market Report value follows the card name, which is the criteria which PSA uses to assign Grade Weights.

1933 Goudey #74 Eppa Rixey $1,300
1933 Goudey #128 Chuck Klein $1,600
1948-49 Leaf #49 Del Ennis $265
1949 Bowman #14 Curt Simmons $120
1949 Bowman #46 Robin Roberts $550
1949 Bowman #214 Richie Ashburn $1,750
1950 Bowman #226 Jim Konstanty $150
1957 Topps #338 Jim Bunning $325
1958 Topps #411 Tony Taylor $35
1963 Topps #537 Pete Rose $1,750
1964 Topps #243 Richie Allen $60
1965 Topps #477 Steve Carlton $285
1965 Topps #533 Tug McGraw $50
1970 Topps #539 Larry Bowa $10
1971 Topps #439 Greg Luzinski $16
1973 Topps #615 Mike Schmidt $210

Errors? Omissions? Undeserving players that appear?

Guys that should probably be added are Phillies HOFers Billy Hamilton, Sam Thompson, and Ed Delahanty, all whom appear on relatively pricey 1887 N172 Old Judge cards. Then there's Sherry Magee. However, I lean toward inclusion - afterall, they're HOFers whom spend much of their career with the Phils.

On the other end of the spectrum, what are the best cards of these newer All-Time Phils whom garner consideration: Curt Schilling, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, and Cole Hamels?

Finally, players considered but excluded from the above preliminary list include: Johnny Callison, Garry Maddox, Bob Boone, Von Hayes, Juan Samuel, Darren Daulton, Lenny Dykstra, and John Kruk.

Please, I'm looking for helpful suggestions at this early stage, and probably forgot someone important. I think it's best to go slow and get this right because with the slow pace of registering a new set, I image that changes to the set once it's listed would be time consuming. This can be really fun once it's completed and live! Afterall, we are talking about the reigning World Series Champions here. You didn't think I would forget to state that, did you?

IJustLoveCards

As a huge fan...

1980'a team...Infield: Schmidt, Bowa, Trillo, Rose, then Outfield, Maddox, Mcbride, Luzinski..behind the plate Boone.

YOU have to include Boone, he was without a doubt the best catcher for years in philly. Maddox's coverage of centerfield was unparrelled in that era. The secretary of defense covered centerfield like no other, amazing defensive centerfielder and many clutch hits, ( he got that huge hit against Houston that won the game that allowed Philly to go to the world series in 1980).
People forget that we almost didn't beat Houston for the pennant.

I would add Bob Boone's, 1973 Topps card and Maddox without a doubt.

I would also seriously consider adding several other Phillies, Howard and Utley, I firmly disagree with helionaut. Utley has been the most powerful 2nd baseman in phillies history. He has the highest OBS, and slugging percentage in phillies history at the 2nd base position, in addition, while Dave Cash was originally a pirate we forget the combo cash/bowa for years in philly and how great that middle infield was.

Von hayes came from cleveland and had a few decent years but overall wasnt as great as other outfielders in major statsical categories, and many fans looked at him as a bust.

Schilling was the best pitcher in philly for years, his ability to win the big games was due in part to him being on teams that were much better and in poistion to win, the only year philly was any good while he was there was in 83. That doesnt detract from his greatness while he was a phillie. He has to be there.

Ed Delahanty..a must..period.

I could go on forever..but those have to be added if you are putting an all-time phillies team together.

packman

How about these Phillies:

(1) Gavy Cravath: dominant power hitter in the Baker Bowl

(2) Cy Williams: power hitting centerfielder

(3) Roy Thomas: Great leadoff hitter in the early 1900s

(4) Bobby Abreu