1952 Topps Mantle PSA 3 Question

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 2:08AM

Gorgeous centering and a seemingly very nice surface. Reputable seller as well.

Does it seem undergraded at a 3? I see some staining on the back and maybe that automatically drops it down to a three. The corners, centering, and surface all seem to be worthy of a higher grade.

I ask because I'm thinking of going to view in person and might put in an offer.

1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 3

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 2:14AM

Note: If I did buy, I most likely would keep it in its current holder. But, I'm trying to figure out what a reasonable offer would be. I have VCP, so I can see that data. I'm guessing this one will likely go on the high end due to the amazing centering.

storm888 · March 23, 2009 2:26AM

I would not expect any .5 bumps.

This exchange is a bit troubling, but may mean nothing.

Do I believe sellers, or do I believe my lying eyes?

I kinda like the card, but would want it cheap.

................

Mar-23-09

Q: Is there a stain on the bottom of the card? It looks like there is one on the scans.

A: Greetings, I'm holding the card in bright light now, and I don't see anything that would seriously qualify as a stain...There are a few specks here and there in the white border that look darker and heres what I think they are....The lower left edge has a tiny edge chip in a triangle shape, which makes it appear a bit darker, and the three tiny black dots on the bottom border actually appear to be dirt specks that may have been able to be wiped away before it was slabbed..I purchased the card already slabbed, so I have never held this card raw to know for sure... In my opinion they are not stains, but I will let you decide for yourself on that..Thanks and Good Luck to you...Bowtie454~~Jesse

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 2:35AM

I hadn't seen that exchange--thanks for pointing it out.

It seems pretty clear from the pics that the back is stained. Maybe he doesn't consider a card becoming naturally discolored over time to be a stain, though I don't know if it's even possible to this extent. Still, it looks more like a minor coffee spill or something. This is precisely why I would have to see the card up close in person.

Storm if you were in my shoes, what would you offer for it?

Sportsamerica · March 23, 2009 2:44AM

I think the seller is talking about the front and not the back..

Stingray · March 23, 2009 2:54AM

Crease from the left of his face to across the card??

jimq112 · March 23, 2009 2:57AM

Looks like a surface scratch

craigger · March 23, 2009 2:59AM

i do not think there is staining on the back, as there are 2 pics and they both don't have it. More likely a shadow of sorts? I do think there is a surface crease on the front that has caused the 3 grade.

storm888 · March 23, 2009 3:10AM

"Storm if you were in my shoes, what would you offer for it? "

///////////////

My first retail-buy offer would be about 20% less than
the most recent low-VCP number.

I would make my cash visible during the negotiations.

If there is a bad scratch on the front, I might not want
the card.

The "stain" does not bother me that much.

....

When buying expensive cards, if you always ask yourself,

"What would Mr. Mint offer to pay?"

you are unlikely to pay too much.

lawnmowerman · March 23, 2009 3:15AM

All I see is $50.00 for shipping

stevek · March 23, 2009 4:30AM

I'd buy it if I could afford it but during this recession I'm limiting myself only to cards worth $4,000 and less.

actually...it's $40 and less.

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 4:49AM

<< I'd buy it if I could afford it but during this recession I'm limiting myself only to cards worth $4,000 and less.

actually...it's $40 and less. >>

I think this card will get above the price I'd be willing to offer before I can get down to Olympia and actually inspect the card. No hurry, though, as there have been lots of nice 3s and 4s lately.

Here's a really nice PSA 4 on eBay right now for $15K OBO. Been on there for a while with not so great pics. That would be one sweet card to own!

earlycalguy · March 23, 2009 4:58AM

nice card, great centering. the scratch would not bother me - it's a 3 grade for a reason.

You'd think if you own a card shop you'd invest $100 in a scanner

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 6:09AM

He updated the verbiage around the question of staining. Apparently it was a reflection and not on the card. The rate this keeps going up, it will probably be beyond what I would pay.

All in all a gorgeous card that I'm guessing will go for $8-9K based on recent sales and this card's relative strength within the grade.

I agree with the scanner comment. I sell very few cards, but they range from $500-$5K and investing in a great scanner has paid for itself many times over. Who in their right mind would plunk down $5K on a card whose picture was blurry? Oh, that's right, not everyone on eBay is in their right mind.

Allen · March 23, 2009 6:36AM

It is accurately graded, but the eye appeal is amazing. Look for a nice hammer price on this one.

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 7:08AM

I just called the guy and he wouldn't sell it for less than $11K, so no chance of buying early on the cheap.

I think I'll just take my chances on the auction. Most likely I won't win it. Oh well.

mike92694 · March 23, 2009 7:11AM

<< I just called the guy and he wouldn't sell it for less than $11K, so no chance of buying early on the cheap.

I think I'll just take my chances on the auction. Most likely I won't win it. Oh well. >>

Hmm. Wait. Hold on a second. He won't sell it for less than $11K, and it doesn't have a reserve?

If it sells for less than $11K, I'd like to see what happens.

thunderdan · March 23, 2009 7:18AM

I should clarify. I asked him if he was open to selling it early and what price would he need to do that. This prompted the $11K.

Like most sellers, he may be adding a buy it now premium into that price. I can't imagine it will sell for that much on the auction, assuming no funny business in the bidding.

relaxed · March 23, 2009 7:51AM

l saw this card last night and I though this is really a nice Mantle. I'm sure that this card will sell for a premium because of the centering. $11K seems high but if you have two or more people that like this card who knows.

WinPitcher · March 23, 2009 8:48AM

Nice card, but, it is a 3 for a reason and the reason can be seen at 10:00 and at the left ear.

It appears a crease was spooned out.

Still, it is a very nice example that is for sure. Good Luck!

Steve

Gonblott · March 23, 2009 9:52AM

WOW

THAT MANTLE HAS PERFECT CENTERING FOR A PSA 3

IchiroDeported · March 23, 2009 10:48AM

""What would Mr. Mint offer to pay?

LOL probably about 8 cents on the dollar,.

bobbyw8469 · March 23, 2009 11:45AM

VCP average is $8,350. While it IS a nice Mantle, I have a hard time believing it will sell for $2,650 over VCP...

thunderdan · March 24, 2009 5:41AM

<< "Storm if you were in my shoes, what would you offer for it? "

///////////////

My first retail-buy offer would be about 20% less than
the most recent low-VCP number.

I would make my cash visible during the negotiations.

If there is a bad scratch on the front, I might not want
the card.

The "stain" does not bother me that much.

....

When buying expensive cards, if you always ask yourself,

"What would Mr. Mint offer to pay?"

you are unlikely to pay too much. >>

This card will not be had for Mr. Mint prices, unfortunately. Current price on eBay is already $6.9K. I can certainly live without it, but might be willing to go up to average VCP $8.4K. Doubt he'll take it, but who knows?

Not that I need message board consensus, but just curious if people think paying average VCP on this mantle is a fair price. Again, whether he is willing to go for it is a separate question.

WinPitcher · March 24, 2009 6:19AM

With that spooned out crease IMO it is a below average example.

The centering and over all eye appeal brings it back up a little.

Steve

Gonblott · March 24, 2009 10:27AM

$7,000

and counting

-------------

I think the card will go for $9500+

thunderdan · March 24, 2009 10:37AM

<< With that spooned out crease IMO it is a below average example.

The centering and over all eye appeal brings it back up a little.

Steve >>

Steve-I thought the early picture posted by Jim showed it was a scratch. Do you disagree? What exactly is a spooned out crease, btw?

WinPitcher · March 24, 2009 10:43AM

Dan

A spooned out crease is crease that is flattened back down.

Most that do that use a spoon.

The crease is then flattened and looks just like that Mantle.

Steve

thunderdan · March 24, 2009 10:57AM

<< Dan

A spooned out crease is crease that is flattened back down.

Most that do that use a spoon.

The crease is then flattened and looks just like that Mantle.

Steve >>

I see. Thanks. As far as how PSA grades a card like that...don't they recognize a spooned out crease and grade it as if it were a regular crease or is there possibility that it gets overgraded due to improved eye appeal?

WinPitcher · March 24, 2009 11:14AM

Dan

A spooned out crease will leave what appears to be a scratch. From what I understand PSA was grading such cards as 2's.

Perhaps in this case, being a 52 Mantle, and having nice centering they gave it a grade of 3.

I have a Jackie Robinson Rookie with the same exact spooned out crease, nice corners and centering and it was given a 2.

Steve

WinPitcher · March 24, 2009 11:20AM

Notice the spooned out crease on the upper right hand side.

Not nearly as severe as the 52 Mantle.

Steve

storm888 · March 24, 2009 11:29AM

The history of the spoon is long and complex.

Historically, MANY reputable consignment houses
used a spoon before submitting cards to TPGs.

The practice has been largely curtailed.

........

A well spooned card will hold its flat for years in a
slab. But, someday, the crease will almost invariably
reappear.

WinPitcher · March 24, 2009 11:33AM

Storm is correct, however, many times the 'crease' when spooned
will break the paper leaving the scratch you see on my Robby and the
Mantle.

The goal is to spoon out the wrinkle without breaking the paper.

Steve

thunderdan · March 25, 2009 12:08AM

I never knew there was another meaning for spooning. I'll have to let my wife know. This is great information, btw. Thank you.

On a different note, I see the auction is now up to 7.3K with the top bidder bidding 28% of the time on sellers stuff. Might we be seeing some shilling going on?

jimq112 · March 25, 2009 12:56AM

Thanks for the lesson about spooning. I never tried it and hopefully never bought any cards that have creases that will come back to life.

So do you think the crease might get worse in the future, or is it as bad as it will get since the paper broke?

bobbyw8469 · March 25, 2009 12:54PM

THE PLUG HAS BEEN PULLED ON THIS CARD......NOT QUITE SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF IT!

WinPitcher · March 25, 2009 3:38PM

Jim I think since the paper has broke it will not get any worse.

Steve

thunderdan · May 6, 2009 1:50AM

<< THE PLUG HAS BEEN PULLED ON THIS CARD......NOT QUITE SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF IT! >>

Just received an email from seller the other day trying to sell me this same card for a "much lower price." (sigh)

I wonder if anybody has ever written a doctoral dissertation psycho-analyzing ebay sellers? If so, I would LOVE to read it.

MBMiller25 · May 6, 2009 2:02AM

Just read this thread for the first time, Great information on spooning. Thanks, I never knew about that practice.

1952 Topps Mantle PSA 3 Question

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