Schilling retires.

MantleMarisFordBerra · March 23, 2009 12:13AM

What a Yankee killer he was. This is a great example of a guy who IMHO wouldn't be HOF on stats alone but when you add up his postseason accomplishments it puts him over the edge into The Hall.

stevek · March 23, 2009 12:57AM

Kinda close, but not quite good enough...he'll get some votes but he won't make it...that being said the Phillies should have obviously kept him.

perkdog · March 23, 2009 2:02AM

There is no question he makes the HOF ( and its not even debatable SteveK )

Thank You Curt for everything you did for Red Sox Nation!

lawnmowerman · March 23, 2009 2:20AM

HOF no doubt in my mind.

The first thing I think of when I hear his name is the bloody ankle. That really summed up his career right there...tough and gutty.

lawnmowerman · March 23, 2009 2:27AM

Oh yeah

Hi Paul

IchiroDeported · March 23, 2009 3:07AM

hell if Jim Bunning is in the HOF this guy should be...

stevek · March 23, 2009 3:38AM

<< There is no question he makes the HOF ( and its not even debatable SteveK )

Thank You Curt for everything you did for Red Sox Nation!

>>

Then he'd better go in as a Phillie or I'm writing a nasty letter to somebody.

Bottom9th · March 23, 2009 3:48AM

Based on his regular season stats - probably not.
His post season stats were out of this world. I echo Paul's statement.
I actually got to thank Schilling in person when he signed a World series ball for my son.

Thanks for the memories Schill!!!

Something tells me he won't fade quietly into the sunset though!

joestalin · March 23, 2009 4:16AM

He was the lone bright spot on some bad Philly teams. I remember him throwing complete games losses back in the day. When looking at his stats you have
to take that into consideration.

Kevin

yankeeno7 · March 23, 2009 4:17AM

Couldnt happen to a better big mouth to be forced into retirement

Schilling has killer post season numbers..even legendary. But if Bert Blyleven and Jim Kaat are not there, no way he belongs.

Schilling has also not been so nice to the media and has probably made a few voters enemies. That may also hold him back.

larryallen73 · March 23, 2009 4:29AM

Seems borderline to me. I would vote no if I had a vote.

perkdog · March 23, 2009 4:35AM

larryallen73 · March 23, 2009 4:40AM

My thing with Schilling is he had a lot of mediocre seasons. He had 2 or 3 20 win seasons but lots with 15 or so wins. Plus he barely had 200 wins total I believe. When I think HOF he just doesn't do it for me. He's like Don Sutton with 100 less wins... and Don Sutton doesn't belong in the hall. Also, as for the "bloody" sock thing who knows if it was even blood. I say NO HOF FOR YOU!

lawnmowerman · March 23, 2009 4:59AM

<< Also, as for the "bloody" sock thing who knows if it was even blood. I say NO HOF FOR YOU! >>

Well I don't think he was eating hot dogs in between innings and wiping the ketchup off his face with his sock

Really though, what do you think it is if it's not blood? Just curious.

larryallen73 · March 23, 2009 5:24AM

Really though, what do you think it is if it's not blood? Just curious.

Ya, that was really a joke. Wasn't there some reporter who said that Schilling told him it wasn't blood or some such thing!?

Whatever it was, let's say it was blood... big deal. It was a few drops of blood. Not a big deal.

lawnmowerman · March 23, 2009 5:50AM

<< Really though, what do you think it is if it's not blood? Just curious.

Ya, that was really a joke. Wasn't there some reporter who said that Schilling told him it wasn't blood or some such thing!?

Whatever it was, let's say it was blood... big deal. It was a few drops of blood. Not a big deal. >>

If in fact Schilling did say that to a reporter, I'm sure he said it in jest and like everything else, it was misconstrued by the media.

I agree a few drops of blood is not a big deal. However, having surgery for a ruptured tendon in his ankle and then pitching in the playoffs when he wasn't expected to, is. It's especially a big deal when you see alot of those prima dona, overpaid athletes not playing due to a hangnail or some other trivial "injury".

<< Schilling had surgery Nov. 9 to repair a ruptured tendon sheath on his right ankle. The injury appeared to end his season in the middle of Boston’s World Series run, but team doctors, in an unprecedented procedure, made a wall of stitches in Schilling’s ankle to keep the tendon in place.

Schilling, with blood seeping through his sock, won Game 6 in the AL championship series against the New York Yankees and Game 2 of the World Series.

The Red Sox had thought the surgery would keep their ace off the mound for Boston’s opening day matchup against Randy Johnson and the Yankees, but Schilling told The Associated Press on Feb. 8 that pitching the opener was still his goal. >>

Brian48 · March 23, 2009 7:08AM

I'm a Schilling fan and would love to see him get into the HOF, but if I had to look at it objectively, I think he is borderline at best.

That said, I don't think any of the voters will ever get that image of the bloody sock out of their minds when the see his name on the ballot. It is iconic now. Borderline or not, I think that one moment in time will take him over the top. Especially in this day and age where there seems to be so much emphasis on things OTHER THAN raw stats when it comes to HOF consideration.

digicat · March 23, 2009 7:36AM

If I had a vote, I'd put Shilling in.

jaxxr · March 23, 2009 8:27AM

Shilling has some great "Runs saved" numbers,

Over his career, his ERA when compared to the average pitcher, and projected for games he pitched, gives him 345 runs saved, higher than many HOF hurlers,
the stat rewards long careers, perhpas a bit unjustly, however his mark of 345 is higher than Feller, Wynn , and Spahn for comparing some fairly long career pitchers.

Curt never did lead the league in ERA, or win a CY award, so he will not be lock for the HOF, but seems reasonably qualified.

TheVon · March 23, 2009 9:03AM

The reporter you guys are thinking about was one of the Orioles TV commentators. I believe he said something along the lines of "Schilling told me it wasn't blood" or something like that. The guy later apologized and said he was speaking out of hand and basically made up the conversation and that he was just trying to be funny. This is all off the top of my head, but that's basically what I recall of that story.

As for his HOF chances I agree that if he gets in it won't be because of his regular season stats. He peaked too late in his career to put up the kind of numbers we think of as HOF numbers. The other thing that hurts his chances is his fighting with the media and the fact that he blogs about sports and I think a lot of "professional" writers don't like that he invades their territory.

On the other hand, he's got the lowest post-season ERA in history for those with enough innings to qualify and I think he's something like 10-2 or 11-2 lifetime post season. He'll get bonus points for beating the Yankees while with the Diamondbacks and for finally bringing a trophy to Boston.

Bottom line: my guess is that he gets in, but with just over the minimum votes required. And only if he can keep his mouth shut in the meantime. (Yes, I'm hedging my bet by adding that last part.)

Barndog · March 23, 2009 9:08AM

I wonder if Schilling even cares about the HOF? He has plenty on his plate, is active in all kinds of charitable organizations, and seems to be ready to move on.

How many other starting pitchers are in the HOF who averaged fewer than 11 wins per season?

RipublicaninMass · March 23, 2009 9:59AM

His interview on the news "no, I dont think I deserve, or will be elected to be in the HOF"

edmundfitzgerald · March 23, 2009 1:49PM

I think he cares because of his love for the game. I think his regular season and postseason numbers are
comparable to Catfish Hunter, so I think he has a chance.

yankeeno7 · March 23, 2009 4:20PM

Now, all you Red Sox fans know that if Schilling had been a Yankee, you wouldnt be saying he was HOF worthy!

killingdream · March 23, 2009 4:42PM

Schilling will never be voted in because his regular season stats are just not good enough. His best chance will come on the veterans ballot. The veterans ballot is way more influenced by things like post season performances and single game feats(Maz WS HR in 1960 , for instance. Although I am a Pirates fanatic there is no way that Maz gets in if it wasn't for that home run.).

stown · March 24, 2009 12:57AM

Regardless if he gets in the HOF or not, he will forever be regarded as one of the most, if not THE MOST, beloved in Bahstan, forever and ever.

IchiroDeported · March 24, 2009 3:03AM

3000K's world series/post season dominance, MEMORABLE red sox moment to break the curse. no doubt he will be in the HOF some day.

Connecticoin · March 24, 2009 5:07AM

Schill gets in on the second or third ballot.

And I think Blyleven gets in next year -- Rice opened the door for him.

thunderpower · March 25, 2009 4:38AM

I have lurking for a while but this thread got me to join. I see him as very borderline in the voters eyes. I just do not see this guy getting in to the hall. He was a very good pitcher for some years but overall he does not jump off the page as a hall of famer. Seems like he had lots of below average years. Blyleven should be in tho.

Barndog · March 25, 2009 4:41AM

<< Regardless if he gets in the HOF or not, he will forever be regarded as one of the most, if not THE MOST, beloved in Bahstan, forever and ever. >>

my favorite is still Luis Tiant. No WS titles, but I watched him as a kid and have great memories from him as a player, person, and performer. Schilling could have brought ten WS titles to Boston and Tiant would still be my favorite of all time.

VitoCo1972 · March 25, 2009 4:51AM

He's definitely a HOFer but not first ballot. Anyone ever notice he has a 4.4-1 K-BB ratio with over 3300 K's? Now that modern statistics have confirmed that balls put in play are no more likely to be a hit than an out, batters retired at the plate should be regarded more highly by future voters. Plus, the guy never allowed free passes. Add that to his unreal postseason record including an NLCS MVP and a WS MVP and 3 WS titles and his record that is better than Catfish Hunter...PLUS his ERA that was a full run lower than the league average for his career...HE IS IN.

WinPitcher · March 25, 2009 5:41AM

Hold on, Stevek says no? Then I have to say yes.

Being serious now, IMO he has a shot, 3000 k's is nothing to sneeze at.

216 wins in the 5 man rotation is pretty good. We will see how much support he gets in 5 years.

Steve

WinPitcher · March 25, 2009 5:45AM

Actually his average is about 14 wins per season. His first 4 years should not be counted.

He also lost 2 years later on to injury, which I have no problem counting as service time.

Steve

Hoopster · March 25, 2009 10:26PM

Real quick...

Curt Schilling's career Adjusted ERA+ is 127, which is 43rd all time.

Some pitchers attain a high career ERA+ by not pitching many innings, but their value isn't as high due to not pitching much, like a Joe Wood.

In Schilling's case he is 95th all time in Innings Pitched. That is not bad. Consider that many innings were lost due to injury while he was still clearly an excellent pitcher, and it would have been no problem to rack up more IP at the same run rate.

That alone should be enough.

As pointed out above, he was outstanding in the k/bb department. This is important because this is all him, and not the defense that can raise or lower an ERA. It is a strong mark of his ability.

He is 2nd ALL TIME in strikeout to walk ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is pretty darn good.

He is 45th all time in walks+hits per IP.

I think I ran the charts where he ranks among his peers in the Pitcher Runs, and it was below the immortals of Unit, Maddux, etc.., but above the 'All Stars'.

It adds up to being worthy, especially considering some of the guys in there. Add his 'heroics' and post season bonus, he probably deserves, and will probably get in.

WinPitcher · March 26, 2009 5:18AM

He is 2nd ALL TIME in strikeout to walk ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is pretty darn good.

Especially since he has 3000 k's!

Steve

VitoCo1972 · March 26, 2009 5:54PM

<< He is 2nd ALL TIME in strikeout to walk ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is pretty darn good.

Especially since he has 3000 k's!

Steve >>

Add all that to the fact that modern statisticians have pretty much come to an agreement that once a ball is put in play, it's pure chance as to whether it's a hit or an out...and getting people out at the plate and not walking anyone is the only way someone can assure themselves of being a great pitcher.

Plus, his ERA was a full run lower than the entire league for his whole career

The guy is a HOFer and there is no argument that can convince me otherwise

4.4-1 K/BB with 3300 K's mean's you're in. Pitchers can't control won/lost records...hitters do.

MCMLVTopps · March 26, 2009 9:59PM

Schilling is already in the HOF, his bloody sock from the 2004 WS is there. Could be that, coupled with his stats may well "eventually" get the rest of him in the Hall.

aro13 · March 26, 2009 11:53PM

~"Add all that to the fact that modern statisticians have pretty much come to an agreement that once a ball is put in play, it's pure chance as to whether it's a hit or an out...and getting people out at the plate and not walking anyone is the only way someone can assure themselves of being a great pitcher."

Yes, a pitcher can control his K's and BB's and in that area Schilling is awesome. However, they can also control their homeruns allowed. In that area Schilling is not nearly as good as the elite from his era (Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Martinez). In runs saved he is also in the second group which includes John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Mike Mussina and Kevin Brown.

Given his post-season dominance I think he goes into the Hall but he is no better than the 5th best starter of his generation.

Gonblott · March 28, 2009 12:56AM

Might take 2 or 3 times but eventually he will end up in HOF

jaxxr · March 29, 2009 4:13AM

Another intersting stat, which favors Curt Schilling, is BR +.

BR +, or Base Runners Plus, the average number of base runners allowed per 9 innings, in relation to one's peers, or above the league average.

Similar to WHIP, but includes batters hit by a pitch, which is another element of which the hurler has considerable influence.
The all time best WHIP average was an amazing .097 by Addie Joss, over a shorter than typical, fine career, Schilling gets a very good 1.14, same as Greg Maddux, Fergie Jenkins, and Bret Saberhagen, being just a fraction poorer than Catfish Hunter.

HOF ( or potential ) starting pitchers ranked by BR +
1 Pedro M 133
2 Walter Johnson 123
3 Addie Joss 123
4 Ed Walsh 123
5 CURT SCHILLING 122
6 Christy Matewson 121
7 Cy Young 121

Schilling retires.

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