understanding lease rates is a tough avenue to explore. also notice the only lease rate to turn negative was the 1 month one.
He makes it sound like "anyone" can lease gold for a month. that is hardly the case.
to explain the gold that came on the market could easily be from India or other countries that are net sellers right now. Have you looked at how much they did not import the last few months? amazing!
one has to be very careful in using the information from people who scream manipulation.
Yes, I did look at the numbers that India has been buying yoy and up to 4th Qtr 2008........ and they are constantly increasing. Wouldn't bet the farm on one month's numbers. If you're looking for a source of fresh gold look no further than the CB's and some of the ETF's replacing physical gold with paper derivatives...a la Madoff. It's just a matter of time before we all find out where the "fresh" sources of gold have been coming from. That will be the day when gold gains $200/oz.
I think today's $30-$45 manipulation down prior to the words of the FOMC being announced was about as blatant as it gets. If you aren't a believer now, then keep that fleece pulled tightly over your head and stock up on banking shares and treasuries for the long haul.
Manipulators help cycle the market back down just as the sheeple are starting to get wind of gold. You could have been in with the banksters from $1007 back down to $890 and then again from $940 to $885. Even better would have been joining them from $1033 last March to $700 by November. But you have made it clear you want no such part of a probable "bear" trading market. So in the end, not much we can do to help you. For now I'll keep an eye on the 2-3 bankster's short open interest on Comex gold and watch as they start to stack those up again towards a 60% ownership stake.
The major bank shares were obviously pumped up today in preparation of the FOMC meeting. Who profited from that (lol)? First day the "bad" bank shares bolted up and left the rest of the stock market in the dust, breaking a trend of many days....well at least until 2:15 pm.
For what it's worth I posted this morning around 9:00 am that the PPT had taken gold down in preparation for the FOMC meeting. You had 5 hours to take advantage of that. What bad news for gold could have come out of that meeting? Were they gonna open up the vaults at Fort Knox and in New York and dump all 8100 tons at once? Not likely. Raise interest rates? Nope. Tighten up monetary policy? Very unlikely. Report a new technology to make sea water into gold? I think not. What did I personally do about it? I bought a bunch of gold stocks on the first takedown to $900-$905, then bought a lot more in the $885-$895 range. Seemed logical at the time but I did have some real fear that Thursday could bring another takedown to sub $875...even sub $850. But there's a reason to take gold down when it's already trending down, esp. if the news will tend to push it back up. I ignored the fear and bought just as I had planned to do the night before....as I posted yesterday. Gold stocks were due for another 2-5% hit and we happened to get a double bonus of 5-10%....and then a complete retrace with another 5-10% added on. Right place at right time I guess....but for the right reasons. I'd have just been happy to buy those stocks cheap and see gold meander around $890-$910 for a day or two and then start to move up again. A week's time just got compressed.
It's been sort of commonplace for the past several years for gold to be hit when the President, FED, or Treasury/FED chief speak on important issues. It's not a guarantee, but gold has rarely seen a rise on these particular days. And with everything sort of coming to a head this week, it sure seemed like a good time to take a whack at gold while it was trending down on a corrective leg any ways.
always you talk about bank shorts like they are the ones doing it... and never considering they have customers and they are the middlemen. i never understand that with you. yes they can play around with their own shorts.. but you cannot possibly think that all the shorts are from 2-3 banks without their customers being a large part of it.
if you wanted to short gold who would you goto? a bank of course.
also redtiger stated this:
"Don't read too much into this one day of action, because it is the Wednesday before option expiration. Big moves, related to unwinding of positions, and disruptions caused by moving positions to the next month or next quarter forward are common."
Considering that JPM themselves own $60 TRILLION in I/R swaps and $100 BILLION in gold derivatives, I'm very comfortable in thinking that they personally own the majority of the shorts on the gold Comex. Where there is smoke there is fire. JPM, HSBC, GS....yup...those are the guys really doing it.
Most of the people that I read, including the amateurs, place their shorts with brokers other than JPM. The only clients they have that might have a significant position would be other banks and financial institutions looking to hide their tracks under the FED's major banker buddy. Little guy shorts with JPM? Sure. Last place I would go to place a short would be with a bank.
<< <i>I have a question. If the market is manipulated, what can YOU do about it?
If it is manipulated, I want to be on the side of the manipulators so I can make money with them.
So, how will they manipulate the market next? >>
You assume the goal is to make money. Much of the gold sales are in the afterhours market when the sales drops the price at a loss to the "manipulator" This has been documented by GATA on numerous occasions. This serves to demoralize the longs rather than create short term profits. The goal of the manipulation is to maintain a strong fiat currency "dollar" and convince the public there is no inflation and that holding dollars is preferential to owning gold. The major banks do this under the direction of the Federal Reserve, often lose money but are handsomely rewarded with inside information and other favors by the FED. Goldman and JPMorgan are the main players and if you don't think they get compensated 10x over then check out where all the AIG money went.
In addition, if they get into trouble then the FED will provide a rescue by "leasing' gold into the market to another bank that will sell (dump) it at a loss just crash the price.. The FED has actually leased gold at negative rates lately actually paying banks to borrow it. Then the short come back in and cover.
Volker stated he should have controlled the gold price beter in the 80s, they have done so since.
coynclector... if you really believe what you wrote in the above post you are firmly married to the idea of price manipulation and you are probably spending your weekends looking for the second gunman on the grassy knoll. yikes.
The big banks also manipulate gold because it leads to much more leveraged gains in the huge bond and currency markets. The gold market is chump change to them....but a means to score bigtime in other markets. When you can't manipulate the huge markets w/o getting killed, why not manipulate the tiny gold market that has a proportional effect to the dollar/bond markets? It's one of the reasons why Goldman carried a 50,000 gold short position on the TOCOM for years (but now fully unwound as of last month). While they were slowly bleeding money from that losing position, they and their fellow banksters were no doubt making a killing 10X that amount in bonds and currency positions....not to mention earning a pile of payback certificates from the USTreasury for helping them out.
Coynclector's post is 100% factual...not sure I can say that about the Grassy Knoll though. To actually think that the banksters would not take advantage of such an easy manipulation would in essence be calling them stupid as well as ethical. MoneyLA, I think it's time you left the Keebler Elves' Shack and got out into the world. Just wait until you find out in print that the gold ETF's have been lending gold to the FED and Treasury in order to suppress gold under $1000 oz. Now that will be a wake up call to all the sheeple who felt that other than BSC, AIG, Citi, JPM, Morgan Stanley, HSBC, Wachovia, Merrill, Goldman, Deutshe, Stanford, RBS, GE, GM, and Madoff......that everyone else out there is still on the up and up! Why should "just" a dozen major "dirty" players paint everyone else with the same tainted brush? It's time to believe the best in everyone, including the ETF's. March on!
If there's one thing that's worth pointing out in RR's post - it's the comment about GS. GS is on the leading edge of all economic trends - they always seem to put their money in the right place at the right time (no doubt due to some help from insiders at the fed).
If GS has closed it's short position in gold, it just might mean something.
If 32 million shares of Lehman Bros. stock (5% of the float) can go undelivered (ie probable naked short selling) just 4 days before they declared bankruptcy, do you think there is the slimmest chance that just maybe, that the banksters are naked shorting gold futures and gold stocks from time to time?
On second thought, I take it all back. The PM markets are scrupulously clean, much more so that the main market or banks. The SEC or CFTC would be on suspected fraud like this in a heartbeart if it were occurring....just ask Bernie Madoff.
Undeliverable naked shorting only matters when it affects the stock market, especially the financials.
At least, that's only until they can change the FASB accounting rules to avoid devaluing their worthless holdings, as long as they don't really ever intend to liquidate them. Yeah, right.
What next? It just keeps getting worse, and worse, and worse. Not really a good environment for "investing" with real money.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
MoneyLA, do you think that these bankers with billions at thier fingers go to meetings to discuss how to invest based on the events of the day and what they think is going to happen in the markets? Do you think they get billion dollar bonuses by guessing right??
No, they get together and to discuss what the are going to MAKE happen in the markets. Manipulation is the normal. Naked Short selling to crash a small company is common practice. manipulating a price of one item to make money on calls or puts is common. Selling a huge number of calls on a item and then selling short the day before settlement to drop the price is standard. This has been tolerated for years as "normal". And to think they actually sent Martha Stewart to prison.
I would think the current destruction of trillions of peoples saving without warning in less than a year would give hint that something has been rotten on Wall Street.
BTW if you get to Dallas take a walk around the assasination spot. The grassy knoll and the book depository were a perfect triangulated ambush spot. I could easily believe that a backup shooter was waiting there if Oswald missed, if the gov't hadn't said there was none. We know they never lie.
MoneyLA, I think it's time you left the Keebler Elves' Shack ...........
Roadrunner, now that was funny
Possibly you might just request a small stipend and just write his site.
edit: and if you think the grassy knoll theory is foil hat fodder.................why was L. H. Oswald in Alice, Texas 'looking for a job' right before the November '63 event? Bored? google Alice, Texas. LBJ
derryb
Posts: 36,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
<< <i>Gold Price Manipulation More Blatant >>
understanding lease rates is a tough avenue to explore.
also notice the only lease rate to turn negative was the 1 month one.
He makes it sound like "anyone" can lease gold for a month. that is hardly the case.
to explain the gold that came on the market could easily be from India or other countries
that are net sellers right now. Have you looked at how much they did not import the
last few months? amazing!
one has to be very careful in using the information from people who scream manipulation.
It's just a matter of time before we all find out where the "fresh" sources of gold have been coming from. That will be the day when gold gains $200/oz.
I think today's $30-$45 manipulation down prior to the words of the FOMC being announced was about as blatant as it gets. If you aren't a believer now, then keep that fleece pulled tightly over your head and stock up on banking shares and treasuries for the long haul.
roadrunner
If it is manipulated, I want to be on the side of the manipulators so I can make money with them.
So, how will they manipulate the market next?
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
The major bank shares were obviously pumped up today in preparation of the FOMC meeting. Who profited from that (lol)? First day the "bad" bank shares bolted up and left the rest of the stock market in the dust, breaking a trend of many days....well at least until 2:15 pm.
For what it's worth I posted this morning around 9:00 am that the PPT had taken gold down in preparation for the FOMC meeting. You had 5 hours to take advantage of that. What bad news for gold could have come out of that meeting? Were they gonna open up the vaults at Fort Knox and in New York and dump all 8100 tons at once? Not likely. Raise interest rates? Nope. Tighten up monetary policy? Very unlikely. Report a new technology to make sea water into gold? I think not. What did I personally do about it? I bought a bunch of gold stocks on the first takedown to $900-$905, then bought a lot more in the $885-$895 range. Seemed logical at the time but I did have some real fear that Thursday could bring another takedown to sub $875...even sub $850. But there's a reason to take gold down when it's already trending down, esp. if the news will tend to push it back up. I ignored the fear and bought just as I had planned to do the night before....as I posted yesterday. Gold stocks were due for another 2-5% hit and we happened to get a double bonus of 5-10%....and then a complete retrace with another 5-10% added on. Right place at right time I guess....but for the right reasons. I'd have just been happy to buy those stocks cheap and see gold meander around $890-$910 for a day or two and then start to move up again. A week's time just got compressed.
It's been sort of commonplace for the past several years for gold to be hit when the President, FED, or Treasury/FED chief speak on important issues. It's not a guarantee, but gold has rarely seen a rise on these particular days. And with everything sort of coming to a head this week, it sure seemed like a good time to take a whack at gold while it was trending down on a corrective leg any ways.
roadrunner
and never considering they have customers and they are the middlemen. i never understand that with you. yes they can play around with their own shorts.. but you cannot possibly think that
all the shorts are from 2-3 banks without their customers being a large
part of it.
if you wanted to short gold who would you goto? a bank of course.
also redtiger stated this:
"Don't read too much into this one day of action, because it is the Wednesday before option expiration. Big moves, related to unwinding of positions, and disruptions caused by moving positions to the next month or next quarter forward are common."
which was bluntly ignored.
erased the rest of it...
Most of the people that I read, including the amateurs, place their shorts with brokers other than JPM. The only clients they have that might have a significant position would be other banks and financial institutions looking to hide their tracks under the FED's major banker buddy. Little guy shorts with JPM? Sure. Last place I would go to place a short would be with a bank.
roadrunner
<< <i>I have a question. If the market is manipulated, what can YOU do about it?
If it is manipulated, I want to be on the side of the manipulators so I can make money with them.
So, how will they manipulate the market next? >>
You assume the goal is to make money. Much of the gold sales are in the afterhours market when the sales drops the price at a loss to the "manipulator" This has been documented by GATA on numerous occasions. This serves to demoralize the longs rather than create short term profits. The goal of the manipulation is to maintain a strong fiat currency "dollar" and convince the public there is no inflation and that holding dollars is preferential to owning gold. The major banks do this under the direction of the Federal Reserve, often lose money but are handsomely rewarded with inside information and other favors by the FED. Goldman and JPMorgan are the main players and if you don't think they get compensated 10x over then check out where all the AIG money went.
In addition, if they get into trouble then the FED will provide a rescue by "leasing' gold into the market to another bank that will sell (dump) it at a loss just crash the price.. The FED has actually leased gold at negative rates lately actually paying banks to borrow it. Then the short come back in and cover.
Volker stated he should have controlled the gold price beter in the 80s, they have done so since.
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
Coynclector's post is 100% factual...not sure I can say that about the Grassy Knoll though. To actually think that the banksters would not take advantage of such an easy manipulation would in essence be calling them stupid as well as ethical. MoneyLA, I think it's time you left the Keebler Elves' Shack and got out into the world. Just wait until you find out in print that the gold ETF's have been lending gold to the FED and Treasury in order to suppress gold under $1000 oz. Now that will be a wake up call to all the sheeple who felt that other than BSC, AIG, Citi, JPM, Morgan Stanley, HSBC, Wachovia, Merrill, Goldman, Deutshe, Stanford, RBS, GE, GM, and Madoff......that everyone else out there is still on the up and up! Why should "just" a dozen major "dirty" players paint everyone else with the same tainted brush? It's time to believe the best in everyone, including the ETF's. March on!
roadrunner
If GS has closed it's short position in gold, it just might mean something.
If 32 million shares of Lehman Bros. stock (5% of the float) can go undelivered (ie probable naked short selling) just 4 days before they declared bankruptcy, do you think there is the slimmest chance that just maybe, that the banksters are naked shorting gold futures and gold stocks from time to time?
On second thought, I take it all back. The PM markets are scrupulously clean, much more so that the main market or banks. The SEC or CFTC would be on suspected fraud like this in a heartbeart if it were occurring....just ask Bernie Madoff.
roadrunner
At least, that's only until they can change the FASB accounting rules to avoid devaluing their worthless holdings, as long as they don't really ever intend to liquidate them. Yeah, right.
What next? It just keeps getting worse, and worse, and worse. Not really a good environment for "investing" with real money.
I knew it would happen.
No, they get together and to discuss what the are going to MAKE happen in the markets. Manipulation is the normal. Naked Short selling to crash a small company is common practice. manipulating a price of one item to make money on calls or puts is common. Selling a huge number of calls on a item and then selling short the day before settlement to drop the price is standard. This has been tolerated for years as "normal". And to think they actually sent Martha Stewart to prison.
I would think the current destruction of trillions of peoples saving without warning in less than a year would give hint that something has been rotten on Wall Street.
BTW if you get to Dallas take a walk around the assasination spot. The grassy knoll and the book depository were a perfect triangulated ambush spot. I could easily believe that a backup shooter was waiting there if Oswald missed, if the gov't hadn't said there was none. We know they never lie.
Roadrunner, now that was funny
Possibly you might just request a small stipend and just write his site.
edit: and if you think the grassy knoll theory is foil hat fodder.................why was L. H. Oswald in Alice, Texas 'looking for a job' right before the November '63 event? Bored? google Alice, Texas. LBJ