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Major market ads for pre-1933 US gold coins
adamlaneus
Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
Today, I heard it on a major radio station originating in the Bay Area. Pre-1933 US Gold Coins "from the New York Mint".
Major hype.
To me, this is very sad. As a buyer, I do not want to compete with folks that respond to hype like this. It makes me realize that maybe it is time to sell; I strongly resist that as well, as my plan was to sell decades from now.
If you go to the New York Mint web site, you will find generic, common coins (dates of their choice) priced at between 3 to 5 times what they are priced elsewhere.
This particular radio station is audible a few states away. The number of folks hearing the drivel is astounding. Perhaps I should not be shocked. I feel sorry for the folks that buy into this. I'm sure folks don't need to be losing more money on overpriced garbage. Selling on 'fear' has always bothered me; I consider it a form of terrorism, thus I have a problem with one of the main aspects of 'gold advertisements'. (there's a keyword for the government computers to chew on)
Since I dropped my cable service, can't get digital because the signal is to weak (in the middle of silicon valley!!!) and went "Netflix only" many years ago, I have been oblivious to much of the main stream advertising. I guess I am out of touch.
Major hype.
To me, this is very sad. As a buyer, I do not want to compete with folks that respond to hype like this. It makes me realize that maybe it is time to sell; I strongly resist that as well, as my plan was to sell decades from now.
If you go to the New York Mint web site, you will find generic, common coins (dates of their choice) priced at between 3 to 5 times what they are priced elsewhere.
This particular radio station is audible a few states away. The number of folks hearing the drivel is astounding. Perhaps I should not be shocked. I feel sorry for the folks that buy into this. I'm sure folks don't need to be losing more money on overpriced garbage. Selling on 'fear' has always bothered me; I consider it a form of terrorism, thus I have a problem with one of the main aspects of 'gold advertisements'. (there's a keyword for the government computers to chew on)
Since I dropped my cable service, can't get digital because the signal is to weak (in the middle of silicon valley!!!) and went "Netflix only" many years ago, I have been oblivious to much of the main stream advertising. I guess I am out of touch.
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Comments
I find it sad to think that many of the coin buyers have lost their money in other investments (legitimate or shady) and are now losing a good part of what they have left by paying huge premiums for common gold coins. Some of these firms mail out "statements" showing plus signs on the coins bought. It is only when the know-nothings go to sell, will they realize they bought a trip to the cleaners.
I don't have any answers. I often write that: Fools lose money. Period. The same foolish mind set that brought the heard of fools to Internet stocks in 1999, investment real estate in 2005, is bringing them to generic classic slabbed gold coin at 5x to 10x melt value in 2009.
attention
They have $50,000 of ONE OZ. gold laying on the table with guards at attention.
The shill is telling you, "If gold goes to $2000/Oz., this gold I'm holding in my hands and touching
on this table COULD be worth $160,000". I think those numbers are close.
He picks up 2 hands full of these and rattles them back and forth between both hands.
One shot shows the gold pieces being DROPPED onto the stack on the table.
There goes your MS70 grade!
While he's talking, a dozen? phones are ringing off the hook in the background. Nobody's answering them?
At one point, you get a glimpse of a holder with 5 1/10th Oz. gold pieces in it. They're never mentioned.
Actually, they're not that bad a deal at $114 each but they don't tell the S & H charges.
They were $99 each a couple of months ago.
My point is, I would never deal with any company selling coins on TV, not at any price.
It's just common sense they're gonna sell them for more than you would pay elsewhere.
JMHO.
JT
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
<< <i>this has been going on for the last 2-3 years.. steady now. pay more
attention
The change is in the price. As the stock market moves lower, the telemarketers seem to get more orders. The grey sheet prices for generic gold and the prices at shows and auction have gone through the roof. To me, this probably means a lot more coins are being shoveled out, at ever higher markups.
The mania stage started this January with many coin prices moving up 50%+ while gold only went up maybe 10%. Coins such as generic MS63 Saints that used to trade at a 15% premium over gold might go for 60% and that is at shows. To the telemarketing customer, is likely 2x to 5x that elevated price. The buyers are already at an 80% loss when they buy and it is very sad. It is one thing for people playing with hobby money, another with the small group of people that are putting their life savings in.
Those poor fools are being cleaned out when they walk through the door, and don't even know it. It is bad enough that times are hard. Sharks selling coins, playing on the economic fears to clean out mostly elderly people may be unavoidable, but it doesn't mean I like it.
The mania stage started this January with many coin prices moving up 50%+ while gold only went up maybe 10%. Coins such as generic MS63 Saints that used to trade at a 15% premium over gold might go for 60% and that is at shows. To the telemarketing customer, is likely 2x to 5x that elevated price. The buyers are already at an 80% loss when they buy and it is very sad. It is one thing for people playing with hobby money, another with the small group of people that are putting their life savings in.
Those poor fools are being cleaned out when they walk through the door, and don't even know it. It is bad enough that times are hard. Sharks selling coins, playing on the economic fears to clean out mostly elderly people may be unavoidable, but it doesn't mean I like it.
The "mania" as you put it really began in mid to later 2008 when all gold coins started fetching larger premiums because 1 oz coins became very scarce after the paper takedown of gold futures. I look at it as an availability thing. Compared to modern bullion there is not that much generic old gold out there. One guy like Bill Gates could buy it all up with his rainy day money. There is something neat about buying old choice gold for <2X face value. You can't buy any other choice type coin in the pre-1940 era for anything close to that....not even a ch. BU 1939 cent which goes 100+X melt.
Maurice Rosen and others mentioned the absurdly low premiums 6-7 years ago that $20's brought over melt, and harping on it every year since. Considering that these coins were collectible classics over 70 years old and most in choice uncirculated condition, it seemed that paying 5-25% over melt was a pittance and it was. Rosen and others predicted the eventual rise in their premiums across the board. It was a wonder it took so long for them to finally rise. The opportunity has been there. Weren't confederate or continental notes once worthless? Where are they today.
Be careful not to lump all generic gold (ie $1's to $10's) into the same broad category. The prices on most of this material is far below the 2008 highs and even the 2006 highs. These have tended to cycle back to their starting points each time gold falls back, even when gold has increased significantly in price over time.
I'd like to see some proof that MS63 Saints are being routinely telemarketed across the board at 2X to 5X their going rate. I find that absurd. 80% loss? $8K for a MS63 Saint. Please provide some concrete sellers doing this, not hyperbole. Frankly, I can go to any show on any weekend and find stuff being sold for 5x it's real value. It's not hard. Happens in good times and bad times. 90% or more of what is sold in the coin market is way overpriced imo.
I do know that MS65 Saints are being sent out at $2750 by one dealer and that is still a hefty 22% markup to their cost. Probably your average "reputable" national retailer is shipping them out at up to $2500. I recently (last 3-6 weeks) sold some 65 Saints to a local fellow through a dealer at $1675-$1775 thinking it was close to their 10 year highs and take a little off the table. I figured the guy was buying near a cycle high and might have to wait some time before seeing a profit. Wrong....he could have already sold the coins for a 25% profit by making a phone call.
Considering that wheat cents were once bringing multiples of their melt value recently I find it ironic that a MS63 saint is fetching less than 2X melt and people are up in arms. A BU Morgan fetches about 3X to 4X melt and no one has been up in arms about that. Could it be that the Saints were priced stupidly cheap for so long that they finally got some attention? Remember when you could buy them at under $50 in the 1960's?? Remember when a BU silver dollar was worth $1 to $1.25? Those days are long gone. That common as dirt BU Merc dime is 5X melt as well. BU 1935 25C? 10X melt.
Don't assign the blame to Saints but rather to the telemarketers who are acting deceitfully. In any event, those people shelling out way too much money for Saints or circ Libs would find another telemarketer to separate them from their money....it could be in stocks, RE trusts, land, Madoff funds, paper money, gem stones, etc. While I'm not condoning the actions of the rip-off gold sellers who are charging monster premiums (but yet to be proved), those same buyers would give up their cash one way or the other, without an advertisement from Ed McMahon or MC Hammer. It's too bad but it's what happens. And if you think these particular coins are in a mania stage now, just wait for additional up cycles to occur. I recall in one of Rosen's annual surveys back 5 years when Scott Travers predicted MS65 saints at $3000-$5000. Even up to 3 months ago I sort of shrugged that projection off......now I'm not so sure.
roadrunner