Need your opinion on 1837 5c overdate

jetblack740il

I was wondering if this overdate is common on this date. Any premium?

MrHalfDime

Your 1837 Capped Bust half dime is an example of a 'repunched date', most strongly seen at the base of the 7. It is an example of the LM-1/V3, as detailed in the book "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Russell J. Logan and John W. McCloskey. Technically, the three digits 837 are all repunched, as seen on very early die states and high grade coins. You are most fortunate that, because of the excellent caliber of the Logan/McCloskey reference, and the due diligence of the John Reich Collectors Society, which compiles census surveys on all Bust series, we can state with some degree of accuracy the rarity of your coin. Unfortunately, the LM-1/V3 is an R1 die marriage, meaning that 1250 or more examples of this die marriage are known. This is the most common category in the Sheldon rarity scale. In the latest JRCS census survey a total of eighteen (18) examples were reported, and although this is nowhere near 1250 examples, it should be pointed out that virtually every collector who contributed to the census owned an example of the LM-1/V3. There were many mint state examples reported, and the average grade reported for the 18 examples was 41.6.

Your example appears to be a very attractive coin, in relatively high grade, with peripheral toning, perhaps from an album. It would make a nice addition to a type or date set, but would not attract any premium for the repunched date status.

Walkerguy21D

Interesting....I clicked on the thread because I recently acquired an 1837 no stars seated half dime with the 1, 8, and 7 all repunched!

MrHalfDime

Ah, yes, there is also an 1837 Repunched Date Liberty Seated half dime, as well. Without seeing the reverse of your coin I can only guess the attribution, but my guess would be Valentine's V1. The same obverse die was used on the V1, V2, and V3 die marriages for 1837, in that chronological order. The strong repunching of the date numerals, most evident under the 8 in the dentils as on your coin, is the most pronounced on the V1 die marriage, and on the earliest die states of those. By the time that the V2 and V3 were struck, most of the evidence of the repunching had worn away.

Notice that the same numeral punches were used on both the Capped Bust and Liberty Seated half dimes pictured. Later in the year, new numeral punches were fabricated and utilized, giving us the confusing and misleading sobriquets "Large Date" and "Small Date". The so-called Large Date, with the tall peak to the 1, is what Walkerguy 21D has pictured. The so-called "Small Date" variety (Valentine V4, V5, & V6) have a flat top to the 1.

Great coins, guys.

Walkerguy21D

Thanks Mr. HalfDime:
Here is the rev image:

jetblack740il

Is there any identifier added on the label for this variety if graded by PCGS or NGC? If not, do I need to submit it for variety attribution.

STONE

<< <i>Is there any identifier added on the label for this variety if graded by PCGS or NGC? If not, do I need to submit it for variety attribution. >>


none that I know of or have seen.

Barndog

<< <i>Is there any identifier added on the label for this variety if graded by PCGS or NGC? If not, do I need to submit it for variety attribution. >>



if you want PCGS to designate "LM-1" on the label, add $24 to your grading fee.

jetblack740il

<< <i>if you want PCGS to designate "LM-1" on the label, add $24 to your grading fee. >>



Would this add value to the price if later decided to sell the coin?

By the way, the coin is already holdered in PCGS graded AU50 without the variety designation. Any advise as to get the designation or not.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>if you want PCGS to designate "LM-1" on the label, add $24 to your grading fee. >>



Would this add value to the price if later decided to sell the coin?

By the way, the coin is already holdered in PCGS graded AU50 without the variety designation. Any advise as to get the designation or not. >>



IMO, it would be a waste of $24. Anyone interested in half dimes by die marriage would be able to recognize your coin as an LM-1 with very little assistance.

jetblack740il

Thanks for all the information provided, another one that I learned from the masters.

LoveMyLiberty

<< <i>Ah, yes, there is also an 1837 Repunched Date Liberty Seated half dime, as well. Without seeing the reverse of your coin I can only guess the attribution, but my guess would be Valentine's V1. The same obverse die was used on the V1, V2, and V3 die marriages for 1837, in that chronological order. The strong repunching of the date numerals, most evident under the 8 in the dentils as on your coin, is the most pronounced on the V1 die marriage, and on the earliest die states of those. By the time that the V2 and V3 were struck, most of the evidence of the repunching had worn away.

Notice that the same numeral punches were used on both the Capped Bust and Liberty Seated half dimes pictured. Later in the year, new numeral punches were fabricated and utilized, giving us the confusing and misleading sobriquets "Large Date" and "Small Date". The so-called Large Date, with the tall peak to the 1, is what Walkerguy 21D has pictured. The so-called "Small Date" variety (Valentine V4, V5, & V6) have a flat top to the 1.

Great coins, guys. >>




Here's a close-up of another large date V-1 from 1837.



Also, here's a close-up of an 1839 where the "3" & the "9" are re-cut if anyone's interested.