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Some Ebay results on PCGS Genuine Coins... (This is not a debate thread on the validity of Genuine H
SeaEagleCoins
Posts: 3,262 ✭
A few weeks ago Blinded by Ego started a thread asking for any results on these "new" slabs...
Link to other thread
I posted a link in that thread to the results for 10 coins over the last two weeks by the same seller. No one seemd to notice so I thought I'd start this thread to possibly bring attention to the results. Perhaps it would be of interest to some.
As I am at work, I have no access to ebay and cannot directly link to the results on this thread.
Link to other thread
I posted a link in that thread to the results for 10 coins over the last two weeks by the same seller. No one seemd to notice so I thought I'd start this thread to possibly bring attention to the results. Perhaps it would be of interest to some.
As I am at work, I have no access to ebay and cannot directly link to the results on this thread.
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free 
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but this is collectors universe so I'm sure plenty of people
will disagree with me.
<< <i>I would rather send them to ANACS, they put a grade on the coin.
but this is collectors universe so I'm sure plenty of people
will disagree with me. >>
As a PCGS dealer, the occasional mailings to me from PCGS over the years always said that dealers
overwhelmingly didn't WANT a PCGS genuine only slab because it would degrade the prestige
of the PCGS name. Then PCGS offered the service, but with a $100 price to make sure that
it would seldom be used. Then it's finally routinely available as long as there aren't any "bad words"
(like cleaned, damaged, or scratched) which dealers worried would make the coins difficult to sell.
So you need to carry a "cheat sheet" of number codes to find out what PCGS KNOWS is wrong
with the coin.
Thus we are seeing "ungradable" coins offered by dealers with their OWN grade opinions,
and without mentioning faults that the selling dealer knows about, the faults that PCGS knows about
but did not print in plain English on the label, and only the poor buyer ends up being the least informed.
Stinks
If the "poor buyer" doesn't know how to read the code AND believes the misleading representations of a dealer, first, there's a very good reason why he's poor, and second, he has recourse against the dealer. In any event, the buyer's blunder had nothing to do with a reliance on anything PCGS did or said.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the most important thing is to give the collector what he wants. And I do believe that most collectors would prefer to have their problem coins in holders that do not scream out the coin's problems.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
If the "poor buyer" doesn't know how to read the code AND believes the misleading representations of a dealer, first, there's a very good reason why he's poor, and second, he has recourse against the dealer. In any event, the buyer's blunder had nothing to do with a reliance on anything PCGS did or said.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the most important thing is to give the collector what he wants. And I do believe that most collectors would prefer to have their problem coins in holders that do not scream out the coin's problems. >>
I guess for 40 years I have been used to marking the problem on the 2x2s of coins that I know to have problems, not to hide it and assume that the
buyer (or his heirs) are smart enough to decipher a code or do their own research. Sorry Andy, you're wrong on this one.
The coin business is heading for draconian regulation if some of these dealers who never heard of "ethics" or "full disclosure" don't change their
ways.
Can you image a Realtor selling a house that "has termites" was code 98 or "on a flood plain" was code 92?
Explain why you think this.
I can't see why any collector would want a problem coin in a slab anyway. The only thing I can see that a problem coin is good for is a temporary filler in a raw set. Whats more I can't see why not disclosing the problem is worth while either.
Ken
have to carry a cheat sheet of what a code means on a slab. PCGS
duty is to clearly explain what is wrong with the coin if in a genuine
slab in my opinion. It is their duty to the "collector" but i keep forgetting
that PCGS serves the dealers and not the collector.
More untrue jibberish.....Geez!! Or was this semi-sarcasm?
Ken
<< <i>"And I do believe that most collectors would prefer to have their problem coins in holders that do not scream out the coin's problems."
Explain why you think this.
I can't see why any collector would want a problem coin in a slab anyway. The only thing I can see that a problem coin is good for is a temporary filler in a raw set. Whats more I can't see why not disclosing the problem is worth while either.
Ken >>
I am definitely a collector on a budget and I for one cannot afford High MS quality coins in PCGS or NGC plastic(depending on the coin of course). If I see a coin in PCGS "Genuine" plastic that becomes available with good eye appeal and it's marked down significantly from it's MS peers and I need for a type set or I just like it, than I would be more apt to buy it because it is graded by PCGS.
It would be a much tougher decision if the coin was presented in a 2x2 flip with something scribbled on it about cleaned, whizzed, or otherwise.
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
If I were building a set of PCGS coins, and if I wanted to fill one of the holes with a problem coin, I'd want it in a PCGS slab. The collection would simply look better that way. (Why isn't this obvious?) And along the same lines, I would not want the slab to scream the problem at me every time I see it. (Again, why isn't this obvious?)
I understand that it's human nature for people to want to protect other people from every possible threat. But if protecting innocent stupid people gets in the way of me enjoying my collection, well, you know where I stand.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>"but i keep forgetting that PCGS serves the dealers and not the collector."
More untrue jibberish.....Geez!! Or was this semi-sarcasm?
Ken >>
i can give multiple examples why I think this is true but lets stick
on topic.
in what way does using mostly codes to show that a coin in the slab
has a problem assist collectors in making decisions on the bourse
floor in buying that coin?
keeping in mind, collectors have a huge range of ability and knowledge. I would guess at this time a tiny insignificant fraction of
collectors could even guess what those codes mean while on the
bourse floor and what the genuine slab means. Also there is no net
grade yet PCGS net grades coins with problems in normal slabs all
the time.
feel free to explain how the collector has the advantage in this situation. To determine the exact problem(S!), the grade the coin should
be netted to, and its approx value based on that.
<< <i>
<< <i>"And I do believe that most collectors would prefer to have their problem coins in holders that do not scream out the coin's problems."
Explain why you think this.
I can't see why any collector would want a problem coin in a slab anyway. The only thing I can see that a problem coin is good for is a temporary filler in a raw set. Whats more I can't see why not disclosing the problem is worth while either.
Ken >>
I am definitely a collector on a budget and I for one cannot afford High MS quality coins in PCGS or NGC plastic(depending on the coin of course). If I see a coin in PCGS "Genuine" plastic that becomes available with good eye appeal and it's marked down significantly from it's MS peers and I need for a type set or I just like it, than I would be more apt to buy it because it is graded by PCGS.
It would be a much tougher decision if the coin was presented in a 2x2 flip with something scribbled on it about cleaned, whizzed, or otherwise. >>
So buying plastic with genuine and a number code on it gives you more peace of mind than buying a coin with the problem listed by the seller. This is beyond logical.
Ken
<< <i>"but i keep forgetting that PCGS serves the dealers and not the collector."
More untrue jibberish.....Geez!! Or was this semi-sarcasm?
Ken >>
If you think a group of big coin dealers got together and spent millions of dollars to help the collector...
That was the intent of the OP... for whatever that's worth...
<< <i>I can't see why any collector would want a problem coin in a slab anyway.
If I were building a set of PCGS coins, and if I wanted to fill one of the holes with a problem coin, I'd want it in a PCGS slab. The collection would simply look better that way. (Why isn't this obvious?) And along the same lines, I would not want the slab to scream the problem at me every time I see it. (Again, why isn't this obvious?)
I understand that it's human nature for people to want to protect other people from every possible threat. But if protecting innocent stupid people gets in the way of me enjoying my collection, well, you know where I stand. >>
First place filling holes just to fill holes is the collectors worst enemy and the dealers favorite thing to see from a collector. Hell, I was taught this from a dealer.
Second I hate problem coins so maybe I should have not said anything to a person that likes them. There is no market for problem coins in the area where I live. You will get killed, price wise when selling, if you purchase them.
I will bow out now and just watch how this thread goes. Have fun with the problem coins and PCGS which has done nothing for the collector.
Cheers.
Ken
<< <i>So... by any chance... does anyone wish to comment on the results of the sales?
That was the intent of the OP... for whatever that's worth...
Fairlaneman and Frank !!!!!!!!
Timeout dudes... really... please read the original post... no ?s about the holder... just the ebay results... OK?
Please either take this debate of yours to another thread or to PM...
<< <i>So... by any chance... does anyone wish to comment on the results of the sales?
That was the intent of the OP... for whatever that's worth...
I tried!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"And I do believe that most collectors would prefer to have their problem coins in holders that do not scream out the coin's problems."
Explain why you think this.
I can't see why any collector would want a problem coin in a slab anyway. The only thing I can see that a problem coin is good for is a temporary filler in a raw set. Whats more I can't see why not disclosing the problem is worth while either.
Ken >>
I am definitely a collector on a budget and I for one cannot afford High MS quality coins in PCGS or NGC plastic(depending on the coin of course). If I see a coin in PCGS "Genuine" plastic that becomes available with good eye appeal and it's marked down significantly from it's MS peers and I need for a type set or I just like it, than I would be more apt to buy it because it is graded by PCGS.
It would be a much tougher decision if the coin was presented in a 2x2 flip with something scribbled on it about cleaned, whizzed, or otherwise. >>
So buying plastic with genuine and a number code on it gives you more peace of mind than buying a coin with the problem listed by the seller. This is beyond logical.
Ken >>
If you are privy too the number codes, than you know what is wrong with the coin. I can understand why people would pay a premium for a PCGS Genuine coin, rather than a 2x2 flip with a problem coin in it. I don't find it surprising at all that they sell for more than raw coin's with the same issues.
I would personally rather have a coin with no problems, but if budget doesn't allow for MS and you would like a nice looking filler in the mean time, than ebay results indicate that people would rather have PCGS genuine than Raw.
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
<< <i>
<< <i>So... by any chance... does anyone wish to comment on the results of the sales?
That was the intent of the OP... for whatever that's worth...
Fairlaneman and Frank !!!!!!!!
Timeout dudes... really... please read the original post... no ?s about the holder... just the ebay results... OK?
Please either take this debate of yours to another thread or to PM... >>
Well if you had posted the link to your results here (which you don't need ebay access to do) rather than to the other thread,
which is also a bunch of arguing, you might have had better results.
I think the results were disappointing, and you would have done better with ANACS which puts a grade on the slab and describes the problem.
While PCGS is the best grading service, I think most would prefer ANACS's grade opinion and genuine status rather than PCGS's genuine status only,
and the seller giving HIS grade estimate.
Second I hate problem coins so maybe I should have not said anything to a person that likes them. There is no market for problem coins in the area where I live. You will get killed, price wise when selling, if you purchase them.
From the perspective of a collector of gem 20th century coins, this makes sense.
For the collector of slabbed colonials, it might not. For example, if I were collecting a Red Book set of colonials in PCGS slabs, I'd certainly consider buying a high grade Willow Tree Shilling with a scratch. And if I bought it, I'd prefer that the slab said "Genuine" and not "SCRATCH!".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So... by any chance... does anyone wish to comment on the results of the sales?
That was the intent of the OP... for whatever that's worth...
Fairlaneman and Frank !!!!!!!!
Timeout dudes... really... please read the original post... no ?s about the holder... just the ebay results... OK?
Please either take this debate of yours to another thread or to PM... >>
Well if you had posted the link to your results here (which you don't need ebay access to do) rather than to the other thread,
which is also a bunch of arguing, you might have had better results.
I think the results were disappointing, and you would have done better with ANACS which puts a grade on the slab and describes the problem.
While PCGS is the best grading service, I think most would prefer ANACS's grade opinion and genuine status rather than PCGS's genuine status only,
and the seller giving HIS grade estimate. >>
Thanks for the comments, Frank... (wish I could have placed a direct link here...oh well)
As for ANACS... my experience with them is that their Problem Free holders are lucky to get 20% behind bid (before expenses)... I don't see their Problem holders doing any better and probably worse.
Frankly (no pun intended
All this was just the further tuition of a lifetime student of Numismatics and the Economics of Coins...
<< <i>I understand that it's human nature for people to want to protect other people from every possible threat. But if protecting innocent stupid people gets in the way of me enjoying my collection, well, you know where I stand. >>
So any new collector that doesn't have the hidden codes memorized or are even aware that there is a hidden code must be stupid?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
No. But any collector that sees the word "genuine" on a PCGS holder and thinks that means anything more than "genuine" is a fool.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>"And I do believe that most collectors would prefer to have their problem coins in holders that do not scream out the coin's problems."
Explain why you think this.
I can't see why any collector would want a problem coin in a slab anyway. The only thing I can see that a problem coin is good for is a temporary filler in a raw set. Whats more I can't see why not disclosing the problem is worth while either.
Ken >>
You are only looking at the final buyer, who is usually not the submitter. Most submitters would rather have the coin in a genuine slab than returned in the plastic bag with no grade. Submitters are the ones that most directly pay the bills at PCGS. Most submitters are dealers submitting so the coins are easier to sell. Selling a coin in a genuine slab is a lot easier than a coin in a baggie with the submission form stapled to it.
PCGS decided not to list the problem on the holder. I believe they made the decision just to be a bit different from NCS and ANACS. They also might have asked some of their big submitters, and got the opinion that they didn't want the problem spelled out on the front.